The gas-piston AR-15 competitors.

[natedog]

It seems there is a category of rifles that are loosley based or related to the AR-15 series, such as the Daewoo, the M-96 Recon Carbine, and the AR-180 that have some of the AR-15's features (light weight, 5.56mm, takes same magazines) yet they have a traditional gas piston/tube. Of these, which is better, and why? The M-96 looks cool, but it is 2x the price of the others.

 

[PenHolder]

Chiming in from California, predictably

I just wanted to add: the Kel-Tec SU-16. It's light weight, .223, takes AR15 magazines, gas-operated, and it uses an AR-style bolt lockup, yet it has a long-stroke gas piston.
-PH

 

[Zak Smith]

The M96, Daewoo, and AR180 are only "like" the AR15 in that they shoot 5.56mm and are black.

For example, the M96 (and thus the Stoner 63) has a completely different bolt, bolt carrier, charging handle, gas system, recoil spring system, stock configuration, trigger, and construction, vs. the AR-15.

I went the M96 route, but found that the rifle - at that point in time - was not "sorted out" as well as the AR15 .. no surprise there. It was hard to get replacement parts or upgrades, and it was heavier than it need be. Since I ditched my Bushmaster, the failure rate of my well-built AR15's (Rock River, and JP Enterprises) has been about an order of magnitude less than I had with the M96.

The answer to your question is probably either the SIG 550 series or the HK G36 series - both being recent developments and still in service in 1st world countries. Since we can't get 'em here, it's hard to tell.

Of the piston-operated 5.56's we can get, I'd go for a 5.56 FAL, based on my experience with the 308 FAL. There are some in the country.

-z

 

[Amish]

The bolt on the Daewoo is a similar to the AR15, but shorter and has a cut out for a gas piston to attach to it. The trigger group is similar to the AR15. The M96 uses a stainless steel reciever. The Daewoo uses forged aluminum. For The price I rather have a Daewoo than a M96; $650 compared to $1300. In addition, the Daewoo is collectable and is an official military rifle used by the ROK.

 

[Kor]

I've shot a friend's M96, which had a very nice trigger and was quite accurate and pleasant to shoot - I just couldn't justify the high price tag, and the heavy weight, in a .223 carbine.

I know of a couple of guys with Daewoos, and they say their rifles shoot very accurately - nowadays it's getting a little hard to find 'em, and those who're selling their Daewoos are wanting as much for them as a good post-ban AR. Also, I don't care for the 180-degree arc from SAFE to FIRE on the Daewoo's safety.

The Kel-Tec SU-16 seems like a neat idea, being VERY lightweight and inexpensive, but I'd rather they made the thing with a metal front sight post instead of the day-glo orange plastic front sight they're using. The magazine-storage well in the stock is an excellent feature, as is the Picatinny-rail on top of the receiver. The folding/takedown feature is pretty neat, but it SEEMS like it makes the rifle more complicated/fragile. If I can see my way clear to acquire one next year, I'll probably have GG&G install their folding AR15 back-up iron sights on the thing in place of the plastic sights, and maybe screw on a Vortex flash-hider to boot.

I've owned an Armalite AR180B since October 2002, and I'm VERY happy with it - it runs like a champ as long as you use good mags, and I've been able to keep an 8" steel plate dancing at 200yds with it. It only weighs 6lbs, and it gets on target right quickly for snap-shots, and it handles very well on multiple targets in three-gun matches. I've personally installed Trijicon sights and a Rock River Arms match trigger on mine, and I'm quite pleased with the results. Some people(NOT ME) think the AR180B feels flimsy because of the polymer construction, and it's recoil feels somewhat brisker than other, heavier .223 rifles, even with the LOUD muzzle-brake integral to the barrel. If only Armalite would put a Picatinny rail on the top of the receiver and a manual bolt-release lever on the left side of the rifle, it would be close to perfect.

Although they have nothing in common with AR15's, you might want to consider a Kalashnikov-pattern .223 rifle like the Robinson Arms VEPR's, the .223 Saiga, or the Romanian SAR-3 - their reliability and durability are near-legendary, and they should be at least a couple hundred dollars less than most AR's. The only downsides with these rifles are their sights and safety, which aren't as user-friendly as those on an AR, and decent, reliable 30-rd magazines can sometimes be hard to find for the .223 AK's - although if/when you DO find them, they're usually still reasonably priced.