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How and when does one know if a simple robbery is going to become more serious?

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Stargazer65

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I guess another reason to always be armed and have enough gun and capacity to get the job done.
It's hard to say what the circumstances were but I'd reserve that treatment to child molesters and other rapists.
Hard to say we can never be caught off guard and I call BS on those who make that claim, the difference lies with the reaction and mind set.
 
I would say that most of the time you don't know how it's going to turn out.

There can be elements that suggest a particular outcome but nothing is certain when dealing with criminals.

If I have people with me that I am responsible for (wife, kids, etc), I will be going to deadly force a lot quicker and do my darndest to buy them time to get away.

If I can see my attackers face, I am on high alert. Smart robbers will cover their face, dumb ones don't, but ones that don't intend on leaving witnesses don't need to.

If the robbers/aggressor/attackers want to take people to a 'back room' its about to be 'go time'. Back rooms are bad news. Real bad news.

I hope that others chime in with more indicators.
 
How and when does one know if a simple robbery is going to become more serious?
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Is there an implied assumption here that a simple robbery does not warrant resistance? If so, I don't understand the reasoning.
 
Oh yes you'll see plenty with that sentiment around here and you may be accused of chest thumping if you openly profess to resist.
 
There may be cases where a simple robbery does not warrant resistance, but that can't safely be assumed to apply to all.
 
I tend to error on the side of caution; any robbery will be taken as a threat to my life and I will react accordingly. In short you don't know if it's going to go from bad to worse so assume the worst and act accordingly.
 
IMO.....any robbery is bad although some may end up worse than others. Act accordingly to protect yourself and your loved ones.
 
JRH6856 said:
There may be cases where a simple robbery does not warrant resistance, but that can't safely be assumed to apply to all.
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Absolutely.

Each will be a case by case basis. I read a story where a young kid wanted a guys wallet. The kid had a knife. The guy decided to give him the wallet, then take the kid to a diner and feed him. The kid was appreciative and enrolled in some kind of program for young people.

Another story that begins in an identical way may not end so well.

You have to make a judgement call each and every time. My recommendation is that 'resistance' should be felt and not heard.

One would do well to have an idea of how to respond before the incident. If you er on the side of resistance, I believe it is best felt and not heard (not like this guy):
[YOUTUBE]WpmBJjZkSbk[/YOUTUBE]
 
Is there an implied assumption here that a simple robbery does not warrant resistance? If so, I don't understand the reasoning.
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No, it's just a question, no implied assumptions. Opinions vary and change. Somebody might form a new opinion based on answers to the OP.
 
Years ago when I was going through the Academy of a very large non-Federal law enforcement agency, during a break between classes, one of the instructors came out and spoke with several of us.

He said, "I want to tell you people something and you had better not ever forget it. Criminals are just like you, except for one thing. They don't think the way you think."

And they don't.

As for a "casual" robbery opposed to a "serious" robbery, I don't know how to define that. To me, EVERY robbery is serious and I personally would/will treat it so. By its very nature, every robbery entails a person(s) using a weapon and threat of deadly force to get what he wants. In my mind, that person has no reluctance to use that weapon on ME, for whatever reason triggers his mind and actions.

Every single robbery can go very bad, for whatever reason the criminal determines is justified in his own mind. Remember, he does not think the way you think.

As the old saying goes, "Expecting mercy from the merciless is a very poor survival plan."

FWIW.

L.W.
 
The link between robbery and homicide is very tight... LAPD still lumps them together in the same division.
 
"Is there an implied assumption here that a simple robbery does not warrant resistance? If so, I don't understand the reasoning."

Anyone who thinks resistance does not carry its own risks is simply not realistic.

Say a robber is holding a gun on a store clerk. Aside from the question of killing anyone over money, can anyone here be certain that he/she can draw a firearm and shoot to kill or disable the robber before he has the chance to fire, AND be certain that he/she will not hit the clerk or some other innocent person? Sure? Are you really that good? Maybe some people are, but they are scarce; most of us, and I include myself, could not be anywhere near certain that starting a firefight would not end up with innocent people dead, possibly including me or my family members. IMHO, people who dream of playing hero and shooting bad guys should stick to video games where real people don't end up dead.

No, I would not take that chance unless there was absolutely no other choice.

Jim
 
The minute some one shows a weapon. the altercation is serious... there is no such thing as a simple robbery... if it was a simple robbery then all your would have to say would be NO... but the knife or gun implies that if your say no or resist, your life will be threatened. So with the threat of bodily harm... the green light is on to protect yourself using any force necessary to end that threat.. if you happen to kill them while they were in the commission of a armed robbery your actions are fully legal. There is no worry about legalities as if to say that if you gave them your money they would just walk away, and in fact after you give up your money they might kill you anyway so as not to identify them... so at the moment you feel your life is threaten and that would be at the display of a weapon you have every right to defend yourself... IN my case, I'm 70 years old with advanced cancer. One blow in to any area of my surgeries could kill me... So even someone with out a weapon who tried to rob me and used threats of violence would put me in danger of loss of life and would give me the right to defend myself out of fear of loss of life at the hands of a man with no weapon...other than his physical presence and verbal threats.
 
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Once someone violates social norms and threatens violence to gain something from you, they have crossed a line where you may use violence to stop them. You have no obligation to try to determine how far they will go. They had an obligation to behave properly and did not.
 
You can play out a million scenarios..... there is no absolute answer for every situation.. the one constant is if you fear for your life, you have the right to defend yourself... You can not however defend some innocent person's life, without consequences. eg. try to shoot the robber and miss and he shoots the clerk... you are as culpable as the robber. or you shoot the robber an hit him, and he shoots the clerk... same outcome for you...
 
Generally speaking, a bright line exists where you should resist if the perpetrator want to move you to another location. Simple robberies do not require more privacy and prolonged contact with the victim; instead expect unhinged depravity to be unleashed. I believe that Rory Miller calls them a process predator who gets their kicks from degradation and terror of victims rather than a resource predator who wants mostly what possession that you have.
 
I believe that Rory Miller calls them a process predator who gets their kicks from degradation and terror of victims rather than a resource predator who wants mostly what possession that you have.
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He does make that distinction, but there may be no bright line. A process predator may start out appearing to be a resource predator. If you assume the resource predator intends no harm if his demands are met, you may surrender your possessions (which would include your weapon) only to see him shift to process mode after you have disarmed yourself.
 
You can say " no " to a potential robber... you do not have give up your possession in order for him to claim he wont hurt you... if some one is robbing you, you can not take the credibility or the word of a common thief and put your life into his hands. If someone wants my money with the threat of violence if I don't allow him to rob me... and he hurt me .. then all he has to say is He lied.. so much for a thief's word... someone want to rob me, I assume he is willing to hurt me ( fear of life ) and at that point, he has turned on the green light.
 
You don't know if the crime is going to go sideways.

If you're getting robbed or raped it already is going wrong.

Assume the criminal is operating under the "leave no witnesses" mantra and prepare to defend.
 
Some signs that a robber may take things further include:

Making little or no attempt to conceal his/her identity (especially if the robber is previously known to the victim.)

The "herding" of the victim(s) to a place in which an execution of them could be committed in private (a walk-in cooler, back office, the trunk of a vehicle, or an isolated place.)

The robbery/assault of a person who could, in the robber's mind, pose a threat of retaliation or pursuit immediately after the crime.

An apparent attitude of lust toward a female victim, or discussion with accomplices of such an attitude.

Who's got more?
 
I'm pretty much in the 'no such thing as a simple robbery' school of thought... and even more so in the 'I DO NOT want to start a gunfight in a public place' school of thought. As with so many things like this for me, the only answer is "It depends ... ."

I suggest watching the following "robbery AAR" from the perp.... with no children around, as it is NSFW.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f0_1437312152
Interview with a Monster
 
How and when does one know if a simple robbery is going to become more serious?
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A 'simple robbery' IS SERIOUS.

You have no way of knowing if they are nuts, on drugs, desperate, or just love to kill people.

I take a robbery as being a life or death event.

Deaf
 
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