How bad are 2021 870s, actually?

[The Exile]

Most of my life I've been told that the difference between a Remington 870 and a Mossberg 500 is about as meaningful as the difference between a red apple and a green apple; and I've also been told that since about 2007 Remington is awful and while their designs are good their workmanship and quality control is awful. So those two together you'd think just go with the Mossberg, right?

Now I'm trying and failing to find what I want and don't know if I should consider the 870. My local shop is flooded with cheap Turkish guns and I want something that I can customize, Mossbergs are in stock but they're all pretty much coming configured as hunting guns and I'm hesitant to add an extra $120 to my bill just to put the barrel I want on when I could just get that for the same price. Remingtons aren't much easier to find but I did see one used one with a few rust spots on the receiver that was 450 or 500 (depends on if their no box sale is still going) and I turned it up at the time but seems like it's really hard to find things right now. What should I do?

 

[upptick]

I think there are fairly widespread reports of quality problems with the Remington 870 Express model in particular. There appears to be a straight-forward fix, however -- check out this video from a gunsmith on how to make a new 870 perform like an old reliable one (essentially polish the chamber and feed ramp, swap out the extractor and magazine follower):

 

[JCooperfan1911]

DO NOT BOTHER.

Thats how.

Hunt out a 1950s-1960s 870.

You'll be dully rewarded.

 

[e rex]

Don't overlook a Ithica 37!

 

[blue32]

I purchased a new 870 Express 12 gauge 8 years ago and never had any problems. I would love if the new Rem Arms started putting our quality stuff but I haven't seen any. I'm in the market for a new 870 Wingmaster 28 gauge. I'd consider an Ithaca 37 but they've been out of stock for over a year.

 

[Dale Alan]

The "New" 870s in stores right now are assembled from stock that was remaining before RemArms came about .

 

[Drail]

The "New" 870s in stores right now are assembled from stock that was remaining before RemArms came about .

Those parts still have to be checked and fitted. Most of the guys who used to do that are long gone. Same for S&W, Colt and Ruger. Today it's all about the number of units produced and sold per day and corporate profit. The products don't have to work - they only have to sell. Definitely find and buy an old one. Firearms requires a lot more than "assembly". New Ithacas are still good as the old ones but you will pay for it - they're high dollar guns now.

 

[The Exile]

Don't overlook a Ithica 37!

Can I put a shell rack on it? I saw some universal ones that use velcro I'm trying to avoid but this is a pretty big want for me.
I thought they stopped making 37s

 

[bersaguy]

This is the one I'm after, also available in the 500 series

For me, I'll wait to see if RemArms get it together a little before I plunk my money down

 

[MEHavey]

So I went out and got a 2nd 870 Express (A-TAC this time)

The PROBLEM:
The chamber was polished to an absolute mirror and there wer no sharp edges anywhere... and it still locked up w/ cheap thin/steel base/rim material that does not retract after pressure drops

Added Note: when i dropped a fired case (one of those more expensive/non-elcheapo AAs) back in the chamber, there's at least 25-thou rim clearance between the rim and the barrel's rim rebate, except in that recoil lug area with the machine marks and the entire lug circumference out to the extractor groove. there, it's tight interference fit -- and that's with good brass.

So as sherlock holmes says... when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The SOLUTION:

The problem appears to be (1) badly cut rim clearance opposite the extractor, as well as residual machining ridges in the same area. Both combine to "jam" the ElCheapoExpanded rim against non-existent clearance when the extractor tries to pull [one side of] the opposite side of the rim free.

So after some veewy, veewy careful Dremel tool work with LOTSA cutting oil and moderate speeds on the area opposite the extractor....




Deep Breath...
High Brass (aka steel rim) Remington Slug. Perfect extraction/ejection
Low brass Double-A.... Perfect extraction/ejection

REALLY HOLD BREATH....
25 continuous rounds (7ea at a whack) of mixed low-brass Godawful ElCheapoGrande thin steel bases mentioned in the OP:
Every one slicker than Nasal Mucus --- (Wow !)

 

[Deanimator]

Can I put a shell rack on it? I saw some universal ones that use velcro I'm trying to avoid but this is a pretty big want for me.
I thought they stopped making 37s

Ithaca moved from New York to Upper Sandusky, Ohio. They still make 37s, although I don't know in what quantity.

 

[entropy]

DO NOT BOTHER.

Thats how.

Hunt out a 1950s-1960s 870.

You'll be dully rewarded.

Id' think one would be duly rewarded. the 70's and 80's, to about '85, 870s are fine also. My 870 TB was made in 1981, and smooooooth. So was my 1981 Wingmaster that I bought brand spanking new in 1982, which unfortunately was stolen a couple years later.

I wouldn't mind being dually rewarded, either. A nice mid-80's F350 Crew Cab with a 7.3 IH in it would be fine.

 

[The Exile]

Okay but how do you identify a 1980s Remington vs new production? To my knowledge they aren't stamped with dates

 

[lemaymiami]

Pretty simple really... look for a well used 870 Wingmaster in the configuration you want (hunting, trap, defense)... I've noted that there are more than one member here who can tell you the year by the serial number. For my purposes, I'd be looking for one in 2 3/4 chambering as well... Go to any gun auction site (I use Gunbroker), enter "wingmaster 12" or whatever gage you're researching and browse... You'll see lots of them - some with very little use...

 

[entropy]

https://oldguns.net/sn_php/remdates.htm

Remington put the date stamp on the barrel (a carryover from the rifles) so it's only accurate if the barrel is original.

Another useful code is the suffix letter of the serial no.; it tells you the shell length the gun was made for:

Remington 870 Serial Number Suffix Meaning


Receiver Serial Number Serial Number Suffix Receiver Frame Size Gauge Ejection
#0000000V V Full size frame 12 gauge 12 2 3/4″ Only
#0000000M M Full size frame 12 gauge 12 2 3/4″ or 3″ Only
#0000000A A Full size frame 12 gauge 12 2 3/4″, 3″, or 3 1/2″
#0000000W W Full size frame 16 gauge 16 2 3/4″ Only
#0000000K K Small frame 20 gauge LW 20 2 3/4″ Only
#0000000K K Small frame 20 gauge LT 20 2 3/4″ Only
#0000000X X Full size frame 20 gauge 20 2 3/4″ Only
#0000000U U Small frame 20 gauge LT-20 20 2 3/4″ or 3″ Only
#0000000N N Full size frame 20 gauge 20 2 3/4″ or 3″ Only
#0000000J J Small frame 28 gauge 28 2 3/4″ Only
#0000000H H Small frame .410 bore .410 2 1/2″ or 3″

There are few newer Wingmasters compared to old ones. Most newer production is Expresses. Those can be made into decent guns, but almost always require some work to get them there.

 

[Barnfixer]

Go old! The last 870 I purchased is from “69” and functions flawlessly. The newest one I have is a 2002 wingmaster and the build quality is very nice.

 

[PapaG]

I'm not convinced we've seen any real, New 2021 870s yet.

 

[Master Blaster]

Okay but how do you identify a 1980s Remington vs new production? To my knowledge they aren't stamped with dates

Metal trigger guard assembly, no key safety, better bluing and polishing.

 

[entropy]

I'm not convinced we've seen any real, New 2021 870s yet.

I concur. The ones in the racks now are NOS from before the sale, and next will be ones made from NOS parts that were on the production line when they wound down before the sale. I don't expect an 870 made of all post sale parts until about 2024.