How bad it is in NJ. Plus another idiot journo

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hillbilly

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How bad it is in NJ. Plus another uninformed journo

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/new_jersey/14628736.htm


Monica Yant Kinney | In New Jesey, not so fastThe results, like the laws in the two states, were strikingly different.
By Monica Yant Kinney
Inquirer Columnist
Ed Tarpy hasn't made a same-day sale in more than 30 years.

Customers who come to his Deptford gun shop wanting a Glock are told to take a walk - to a police station, of all places. It's the law.

I wouldn't have believed it, either, if I hadn't tried to buy a gun last week.

For states so close to each other, New Jersey and Pennsylvania are on different planets when it comes to gun laws.

Across the river, my colleague, Tom Ferrick, could arm a small militia on his lunch hour and still have time to grab a bite if he had any money left.

Alas, New Jersey residents cannot legally purchase firearms in Pennsylvania.

So in the Garden State, I spent a day and $54 being told I'd be lucky to get a handgun permit in three months - presuming that my husband and two references say it's OK and I'm not hiding any past crimes or mental breakdowns.

While being fingerprinted at the Haddonfield Police Department by Detective Sgt. Gary Pearce, I brought up "The Cartridge Family" episode of The Simpsons, in which Homer impulsively decides he wants to buy "the deadliest gun" in the store.

"Sorry pal. The law requires a five-day waiting period," he's informed.

"Five days?! But I'm mad now!" Homer hollers. "I'd kill you if I had my gun!"

Pearce, a 19-year police veteran, just grins. New Jersey may be full of hotheads. But here, they get plenty of time to cool off before firing.

The gun gauntlet

Google "buy gun New Jersey," and the first hit you get is the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence Web site, www.bradycampaign.org, explaining that my fair state has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

Here, you must be 21 to buy a handgun. It's nearly impossible to get a carry permit or own an assault weapon.

Once "smart-gun" technology finally hits the market - limiting a weapon to be fired only by its owner - New Jersey will eventually sell such guns exclusively, thanks to a 2002 law that was the first of its kind in the nation.

If that's not enough, as I type, the state Assembly is considering 17 bills taking aim at gang violence and revolving around guns.

Good laws can be bad for business. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the dearth of dealers in the state.

Federal statistics show only 337 licensed gun dealers in New Jersey last year, compared with 2,765 in Pennsylvania, I'm told by Kristen Rand, at the Violence Policy Center in Washington.

Maybe that explains why only 11 percent of New Jersey households have a firearm in them. In Pennsylvania, 36 percent do.

The waiting game

I found Ed's Gun Shop in the Yellow Pages.

By law, owners Ed and Verna Tarpy can't unlock the gun case or let me hold a revolver.

Not until I come back with a permit.

"All the laws do is come down on the law-abiding citizen," says Ed, who's had his shop 41 years.

On this point, we disagree. TV on-demand is great, but I'm comforted that I can't legally get a gun at a drive-through.

The part about having to actually talk to a cop about wanting a weapon just slays me.

"It's not the kind of thing bad guys will want to go through," notes Bryan Miller, who runs the advocacy group Ceasefire NJ.

At the Haddonfield Police Department, Pearce hands me two papers and sends me off to get a $54 money order - no cash or checks, please.

The post office is nearby, so that's a quick trip. Filling out the forms takes longer than eating my lunch.

One seeks consent so police can probe my mental health history.

The other wants to know my personal and criminal past and present - including height, weight and tattoos!

Am I an alcoholic or a drug addict? Was I a juvenile delinquent? Have I ever been a member of a group seeking to overthrow the government?

I'm told to list two non-relatives as character witnesses. My husband also gets a say in whether I'm gun-worthy.

The state even wants my work information, which makes me wonder whether people who rely on the First Amendment to do their job can lean on the Second Amendment, too.

Pearce assures me that I'll be judged no differently than any other would-be gun-buyer in this Quaker community.

"Now," he says, "the waiting begins."

My fingerprints will be sent to the New Jersey State Police and the FBI, which can take three months or more.

In the meantime, Pearce will do his own investigation. He'll check my criminal history and driving records, looking for warrants and red flags. He'll search domestic violence records to see whether anyone has ever taken out a restraining order against me.

If I had ever sought mental health treatment, he'd talk to my doctors to see whether they think it's safe for me to own a gun.

"If we feel someone is incompetent or incapacitated," Pearce says, "we can deny."

Haddonfield processes gun permit applications the day they are made. But Tarpy tells me other police departments take their time. Sometimes, the wait can stretch six months to a year. Sometimes, the customers change their minds and never return.

Blame the neighbors

There is one way to get firepower, fast, in the Garden State.

Drive to Camden. Slip a kid on a corner some cash. Supply meets demand every day in the so-called Most Dangerous City in America.

Make sure to thank Pennsylvania politicians for making capitalism so deadly in New Jersey.

Fifty-two of the 131 guns recovered in Camden crimes in 2004 came from Pennsylvania, according to the most recent ATF records available. By contrast, only 21 (16 percent) were originally purchased in New Jersey.

"Pennsylvania law is so weak, it not only enables straw purchases, it encourages it," Ceasefire's Miller says.

Think about it: If you wanted to buy a bunch of guns to resell them on the street, where would you start?

In New Jersey, where you'd have to tell a cop why you want 100 handguns and wait months for your arsenal?

Buy in bulk in Pennsylvania in the morning, and double your money in the Garden State by nightfall.

Miller can't help but note that although New Jersey ranks among the lowest in the land for its statewide rate of gun violence, two cities - Camden and Trenton - are among the nation's most bullet-ridden.

"Guess what? They're both on the Delaware River, just a short drive to Pennsylvania," he sneers.

Where there's a bridge, there's a way if you're in a rush to become armed and dangerous.

Me? I'm happy to wait. I don't really want a gun.
 
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I saw an XD 45 the other day and decided I wanted it. Less than 15 minutes later I left with my new gun. It would have taken less time, but I spent 5 minutes looking for a gift certificate I got a few years ago for Christmas. No fuss, no muss, no permit, no license. And I can carry it concealed without a permit. Today I bought three boxes of ammo. No fuss, no muss, no permit, no license, no ID. It must really suck living in NJ.
 
What about the crime rates of Penn towns that are opposite Camden and Trenton ?

And if I read it correctly you need a permit just to hold a gun in a shop in NJ.

Wow, and I though Ca. was bad. It is but nowhere near that bad.

NJ is corrupt and mob-influenced and run for the benefit of criminals so of course the potential victims are kept as helpless as possibloe.
 
A buddy of mine is emailing with the author of that article, going to try to get her to go shooting with him and perhaps talk about some of the contradictions in that article. She's expressed an interest.
 
Hmmm. They wouldn't print the following response to a Bryan Miller op/ed:

I just read Bryan Miller's latest gun hysteria and would like to clear up a few inaccuracies. Mr. Miller is setting out to reduce the flow of illegal weapons pouring into Camden from Philadelphia. The rules of simple economics reveals that the black market increases in direct correlation to increases in gun control. The gun-ban crowd has, in effect, created the black market that we're all concerned about.
We can all sympathize with Mr. Miller who tragically lost his brother Michael on Nov. 22, 1994 to a deranged street thug named Bennie Lawson. Special Agent Miller was killed in the line of duty by Mr. Lawson who was "settling" a gang-related "issue". Agent Miller was truly in the wrong place at the wrong time, but attacking the law-abiding gun owner will never settle Bryan Miller's "score".
The gun control that Bryan Miller has devoted his life to only disarms the law-abiding thereby literally giving criminals greater predatory confidence. This only makes the job of law enforcement that much more difficult. Criminal laws against murder, kidnapping, rape and all other violent crimes are laws that already impose appropriate restrictions on the use of any weapon. In fact, 10 out of 10 criminals favor gun control.
In my county, 40% of the adults have their concealed carry permit - a natural right of all citizens that's unavailable in New Jersey. One might even say that a state that deprives its law-abiding citizens with the means of self defense is itself a barbaric accomplice to violent crime. It's as if New Jersey politicians, with the help of laser focused elitists like Bryan Miller who seem to know what's best for everyone else, distrusts its citizens more than they fear rapists and murderers.
Gun owners are among the most disciplined, responsible, safety conscious and courteous people that you could ever want to know. They are the single most law-abiding segment of our society and no one detests violence and cherishes life more than those wishing to be personally responsible for their own safety. If Mr. Miller truly wishes to make New Jersey safer than he'll let brave law enforcement officers like his late brother do their jobs and stop trying to impose his superior wisdom and virtue on others.
 
Drive to Camden. Slip a kid on a corner some cash. Supply meets demand every day in the so-called Most Dangerous City in America.

Camden, NJ has the unique distinction of being the only city in the United States to be considered "beyond recovery" by sociologists.

The last time I'd visited Trenton, it looked like nothing new had been built since 1960, and the rest was slowly crumbling. News was lots and lots of shootings. With, likely, illegal guns not bought in a store.

Garden state, indeed.
 
Thank GOD I live in AZ! No permit to purchase/license/waiting period/,agazine restriction/ammo restriction/police interview/AWB/etc., plus we have open carry/shall issue CCW/optional public school firearms education/no CCW renewal class/etc.
Joisey would kill me.
 
Thank god I live in Ga.
I used to live in NY and NJ both places have become communist.In Ga you don't have to have a permit to buy a gun,you can keep it loaded in your car of home,get a permit and carry whatever type of gun you want and also legally own full auto and supressed weapons. And we don't have a crime problem except for in the city of Atlanta drug related stuff.
 
Yeah that story is pretty much right on the money. You need a seperate permit for each handgun you want to buy. You can get multiple permits at one time, however, they are only valid for 90 days and can be renewed once for another 90. Afterwards you have to go through the whole process again, although some police depts don't require prints if you have gotten a permit in a certain number of years.

For rifles and shotguns it's the same except you only have to go through it once and you get your "Firearms ID Card" that you can use to buy as many rifles and shotguns as you want. BUT, if you move or change your address you need to get a new one, and if it's been past 10 years you get to go through the whole process again. When I was 20 it took me 14 months to get my FID card. During the time I was waiting for my FID I passed a full background investigation by the Prosecutor's Office and graduated the police academy before my FID came back. How's that for ridiculous?
 
Well.. it sounds like you guys win the award for the worst gun laws in the country. I thought for sure CA was the worst, but you guys beat us with the whole ID card and pistol permit thing.

Wait... Does NJ have an "Assault Weapons" ban on stuff like AKs and ARs?
 
Wait... Does NJ have an "Assault Weapons" ban on stuff like AKs and ARs?

We sure do, had it since 1989 too. There are good and bad aspects of the NJ law. The worst part is the magazine ban which does not even allow pre-ban mags. They do cut us a small break however and instead of 10 rounds allow you to have mags up to 15.

The ban on AW's themselves was horrid when it first passed but now thankfully due to many new rifles coming out and instead of listing features on a rifle it had a list of named rifles and then banned rifles "substantially identical" to ones listed. So an AR-15 is banned, but all the new AR series are ok so long as they don't have the bayonet lug, flash surpressor, or collapsable stock to make it "substantially identical" to an AR. The funny part is on a rifle that was not around in 1989 such as the XCR you can have a folding stock and all the flash suppressors you want because there is no rifle on the list it would be "substantially identical" to. Confusing, I know, but this IS NJ.:cuss:

Here's the list BTW....you'll find some real head scratchers on there like the M1 Carbine. :banghead:

lgimec AGM1 type

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the

"Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Armalite AR-180 type

Australian Automatic Arms SAR

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms

Bushmaster Assault rifle

Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900

CETME G3

Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type

Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 seriesDaewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types

Demro TAC-1 carbine type

Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types

FAMAS MAS223 types

FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms

Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 Shotguns

G3SA type

Galil type Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1

Intratec TEC-9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

M1 carbine type

M14S type

MAC10, MAC11, MAC11-9mm carbine type firearms

PJK M-68 carbine type

Plainfield Machine Co. Carbine

Ruger K-Mini-14/5F and Mini-1 4/5RF

SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types

SKS with detachable magazine type

Spectre Auto carbine type

Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type

Sterling MK-6, MK-7, and SAR types

Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms

USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun

Uzi type semi-automatic firearms

Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms

Weaver Arms Nighthawk

Any firearms which are substantially identical to any of the above firearms; any semiautomatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a conspicuous pistol grip, or a folding stock; a semi automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds. Any magazine with a capacity greater than fifteen rounds is prohibited, even if there is no semi-automatic firearm to accompany the magazine unless the person has a registered "assault firearm" and the magazine is used for DCM sanctioned shooting matches.
 
New Jersey has a list of banned firearms, and a list of features that make other firearms, if significantly identical to a banned firearm, illegal.

The list Pages 3-4 of this PDF:
http://www.nj.gov/lps/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

Attributes constituting an Assault rifle:
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

Until sh**ty people are called out as such, and removed completely from society, NJ will get worse. It will never be the fault of the uneducated,
fatherless 18 year old, with giant pants, an existing criminal record, and
a stolen handgun.
 
How does it work if you live in another state, already legally own guns, then move to NJ? I live in Florida now, but may have to return one day (unfortunately). Do I have to get rid of my guns before I return?

NJ. Get out. Get out while you still can. :eek:
 
How does it work if you live in another state, already legally own guns, then move to NJ? I live in Florida now, but may have to return one day (unfortunately). Do I have to get rid of my guns before I return?

You just hit on the main "loophole" if you will of NJ gun law. There is no permit needed to "own" or "possess" a handgun, only to purchase. Likewise, there is no requirement for handguns to be registered, however, they are when they are bought in NJ with a permit to purchase.

If you were to move to NJ with handguns you would be fine to own them and transport them to a range in the proper manner without any problems. Just be careful that none of them have magazines over 15 rounds, such as the Glock 17 as that would be a crime.

As for rifles you will want to get your FID card ASAP as a lot of uninformed LEO's in this state misunderstand the law and believe you cannot transport rifles or shotguns without an FID card. Make sure again you consult the list and it's not an "assault firearm" and you are good to go.
 
Pearce hands me two papers and sends me off to get a $54 money order - no cash or checks, please.
One symptom of deep-rooted corruption is when a governmental organization won't accept that nation's own currency as payment. (Sadly, this isn't unique to New Jersey.)
 
The NFA hoops to own machineguns in free states are less hassle than that nonsense just to buy a politically corrected mundane firearm in NJ.
 
a lot of uninformed LEO's in this state misunderstand the law and believe you cannot transport rifles or shotguns without an FID card. Make sure again you consult the list and it's not an "assault firearm" and you are good to go.

That's true, though the circumstances of exemptions are a bit thinner.

Chances are _really_good_ that if you're boarded, you're going to have to spend a fair amount of money to have a lawyer explain that to a judge using the right combination of big and small words that the judge is supposed to be able to understand.

Given NJ judge's track record of making spit up as they go along, being right is no guarantee of avoiding a conviction.
 
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