How Can I Size 9mm For Entire Length Of The Case?

[WessonOil]

Forever, this has not been an issue in the pistols I have run my hand loads through, but I recently purchased an FX-9 Carbine, and my handloads (and snap caps) will not usually extract on unfired rounds.
I typically have to fire into the backstop.
I purchased 50 Winchester White 9mm Round Nose and they extract unfired rounds, no problem.

Very base of my handloads are .3890 - .3950, more or less.
Very base of the Winchester are .3850.

My rim is tapered to 3785.
Winchester tapered to .3745.

OAL of handloads are about 1.145.
OAL of Winchester is about 1.16.

Only thing that seems excessive on my handloads is base diameter, which Speer manual shows to be max of .3917.

Sizing die (as with most sizing dies) doesn't size that last little bit of a case...could that little bit of difference be my issue?

FYI...the carbine shoots fantastic...fired brass ejects about 6 feet, with 4.0 grains of TiteGroup and 124 grain RMR Plated RN.

Only one misdeed in a few hundred rounds during breakin period.

 

[edwardware]

Perhaps a Lee bulge Buster kit will do you.

edit: I take it back, they don't make a 9mm because it's tapered. Maybe a custom Lee bullet sizing die would do, but that seems pretty extreme.

 

[Walkalong]

Very base of my handloads are .3890 - .3950, more or less.

Scrap any sized case where the diameter at the base is over .391. I use a Wilson gauge to weed those out.

The 9MM case is tapered so it is important to have the sizer all the way down (Sizer just touching the shell plate or holder when actually sizing a case.)

My old Lee sizer has a tapered insert and makes a nicer looking reload than my Redding sizer. Both work just fine, and neither sizes cases down betetr, butthe Lee doesn't give that "shoulder" look to the case down near the case head.

I gauge all sized cases and scrap any that fail to fall out of their own weight. No issues with even my tight (SAMMI minimum) EMP chamber.

 

[Sunray]

SAAMI max case head diameter is .3910". Minimum is .384".
Like Walkalong says, your shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die with the ram all the way up. However, since your getting different sizes, it's probably more about you not operating the ram all the way every time. Also possible the FX-9'schamber is a tick undersize. SAAMI chamber dimension says it should be .3913". Easier to turn the die down a tiny bit than ream the chamber.

 

[LiveLife]

base of my handloads are .3890 - .3950

My Lee sizing die will resize 9mm case base to .386"-.388".

If you are not seeing daylight between bottom of die and top of shell holder/plate, is filing/machining the top of shell holder/plate a consideration?

 

[1KPerDay]

I'd wager you need to seat a little deeper is all.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I use this: http://www.magmaengineering.com/case-master-jr-rimless-case-sizer/

That's an extreme cure for your problem, but it works. I've got dies for 9x19, .40/10mm and .45 acp.

You may also look at your extracted loaded rounds and see if the bullet is contacting the rifling? If the ogive of the bullet you're loading is different than the Winchester bullet, that may be the cause of the problem. You can also do the "plunk test" and see if the loaded round is chambering all the way, or being forced into the leade.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[greyling22]

Lee dies have a bevel on the bottom to aid in feeding. That area does not size the case. I've shaved down sizing dies before. It's not hard to do with a belt sander and a steady hand. Just lock the sander on and flip it over. Don't know if it will fix the problem, but it will size you further.

 

[Varminterror]

The collar of the shell holder and any bevel at the bottom of the die mouth yield un-touched sections of the case.

Push through dies like the Lee Bulge Buster or the Redding GRX are one option. Trashing over expanded brass and replacing them is another option.

 

[Duvel]

You can use the Makarov FCD with the Bulge Buster for base sizing.

 

[Walkalong]

I'd wager you need to seat a little deeper is all.

Perhaps, as many 9MM chambers are FAT, but my EMP will lock up with a round that is .392 at the base. .3915 is OK, .392 is not, .393 must be knocked back out from the front.

I have so much 9MM range brass from picking it up over the years that if it fails the gauge after being sized I simply scrap it. It has been subjected to high pressure get bulged like that. Are there ways to size it down and use it? Yes there are, but I am not interested.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

The 9MM case is tapered so it is important to have the sizer all the way down (Sizer just touching the shell plate or holder when actually sizing a case.)

Use care when adjusting the sizer. It should only kiss the shell holder, as Walkalong described. There is a carbide ring that will break if you bump the shell holder.

 

[hdwhit]

Walkalong wrote:
Scrap any sized case where the diameter at the base is over .391.

When inspecting 9mm, I use a micrometer to measure the diameter of the case head. I set it around 0.3912 or 0.3913 and anything that doesn't easily pass through the jaws goes in the scrap bucket.

 

[WessonOil]

Thanks for all the responses!

Not an issue with the bullet engaging the rifling, as my OAL is considerably shorter than the Winchester and there's not rifling marks on the plating.

What I'll do initially is insure that my sizing die stays tight and makes contact with the shell holder on each stroke.

I'm using a Lee Progressive loader, so I'll slow down when loading for the FX-9 and insure I travel all the way down.

I'll also perform a plunk test with dummy rounds after running a few rounds through to see if this makes a difference.

My wife and I both shoot competitively with 9mm so we burn through a lot of rounds and I load a lot of rounds, so mic'ing each round isn't really an option.

This rifle is being used for 3 Gun, so I'll be burning a lot of rounds through it as well.

 

[1KPerDay]

Don't mean to argue but comparing OAL of a different bullet design doesn't really tell you anything. The ogive is what matters and they are all different. Plunk test is easy. You might be right that it's something wrong near the case head, but a plunk test will eliminate that variable for sure. I shot a two gun with a guy who had malfunctions all day long through his Sig MPX because he loaded a bunch of ammo on his Dillon and just left it set where his other guns liked it. He didn't plunk any of the ammo before loading a thousand of them and they were all too long for his sig.

 

[Walkalong]

Many carbide sizers these days have some steel below the carbide ring so seating firmly against the shell holder won't hurt a thing. You just have to look at your die and see what will be contacting the shell holder.

My wife and I both shoot competitively with 9mm so we burn through a lot of rounds and I load a lot of rounds, so mic'ing each round isn't really an option.

That is actually a great reason for doing so. I gauge each sized case and scrap at that level, anything loaded with the passed cases will chamber.

Some use gauge blocks that can check multiple rounds at a time. Some use a FCD to make sure they all chamber. A jam just kills scores, which is why so many competitors check loaded rounds or use a FCD.

 

[Jim Watson]

I suspect an undersized chamber.
Maybe an undersize sizing die set low would be enough.
A new sharp in spec chamber reamer will fix it.

 

[LiveLife]

I suspect an undersized chamber. Maybe an undersize sizing die set low would be enough. A new sharp in spec chamber reamer will fix it.

OP and I are using the same brand dies. My resized cases measure .386" - .388" at the case base and all fully chamber in my KKM/Lone Wolf match barrels and several chambers of Just Right and PSA carbines.

base of my handloads are .3890 - .3950

I'll also perform a plunk test with dummy rounds after running a few rounds through

You should only need to chamber check resized brass to check case base. Likely problem is spent cases not being full-length resized.

My wife and I both shoot competitively with 9mm ... for 3 Gun

My USPSA match loads were loaded with brass resized separately and primer pockets inspected then hand or press primed on Pro 1000. Nice thing about using resized brass is it makes reloading silky smooth and reduces shellplate tilt induced OAL variance when resizing overly expanded brass that makes me see daylight between bottom of die and top of shellplate. When I feel increased resistance during resizing, I will check the die/shellplate for daylight and if I do, rotate the brass 90 degrees and resize again then chamber check in the tightest barrel. Like Walkalong, any resized brass that won't fully chamber gets tossed in the recycle bin.

After getting a round stuck during a match stage that costed me several seconds to rechamber another round, I started chamber checking every loaded match round.

 

[Jim Watson]

Lots of work there, I seldom get into single stage sizing and case gauging.
I dry tumble mixed 9mm brass and run it through the Dillon. Dillon sizing die, Hornady seating die, Lee CFC crimp.
I gauge loaded ammo 100%. The CFC die - it took me three tries to get it adjusted right in Dillon machine - has greatly reduced gauge failures, and nearly all the few that fail are plunkable to go for practice.
The CFC die does not post size the neck of the case and squish the soft plated 147 gr bullet; but I get a good number of rounds out with a shiny band low down on the case. I conclude that these are expanded cases that are not adequately resized by the Dillon sizing die with its wide mouth and tapered entry meant to ease alignment of cases in the typical sloppy progressive shellplate. I have a EGW/Lee "U" die but it increases handle effort and I only use it for 115 gr JHP defense practice ammo.

 

[LiveLife]

Same experience here. I started with Dillon 550 and currently load on 650 and found some Dillon and RCBS resizing dies won't resize the case base as much as Lee resizing dies.

For 40S&W, Lee carbide sizer will resize cases expanded to .430+" at the middle and .423"-.424" at the case base down to .420" all the way down to case base. RCBS carbide sizer won't touch the .423"-.424" case base.

And because of Lee sizing dies, I haven't had the need to use the Factory Crimp Dies even for match loads shot in tighter match barrels.

 

[jmorris]

Two ways, push through or roll size.

As you know push through will only do the rim on a tapered case but roll sizing can do the base and even into the extractor groove.

I have case pro machines that I roll size cases with, the case drops into two dies that slide latterly and the case rolls between the taper in them.




I automated the one I use most.

 

[Tcruse]

Lee makes an undersized sizing die that solved this problem for me. I shoot a lot of Glocks and them purchased a new DW PM9. Many of my reloads did not chamber or got "stuck". The lee die is available from a couple of sources. The brand I ordered did not disclose the die as being a lee die except in the warranty document.

 

[BSA1]

What I'll do initially is insure that my sizing die stays tight and makes contact with the shell holder on each stroke.

I'm using a Lee Progressive loader, so I'll slow down when loading for the FX-9 and insure I travel all the way down.

This rifle is being used for 3 Gun, so I'll be burning a lot of rounds through it as well.

Just a thought.

As commented Lee Sizing die is supposed to contact the shell holder. Since you are using a Progressive Press have you checked to ensure the sizing die is contacting shell holder when there are rounds in each loading station?

Completing the loading of three rounds at a time requires a stronger downstroke on the loading handle than just for a single round. Maybe you might try tweaking the sizing die slightly to make more contact with the shell holder.

Other than the sizing issue how do you like your Lee Progressive Press? We also have developed a big 9mm appetite and am considering a Pro 1000.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Lee also makes a factory crimp die for the 9mm. Unlike the fcd's for straight wall cases, it doesn't size down the neck AND the bullet in it. It only sizes the base to alleviate the problem you have. I use one to improve the concentricity of my loaded ammo, and apply taper crimp. Works great.

Sounds like some of your brass is being fired in an older Glock, or such. This is a solution. Not the only one, though.

 

[jmorris]

When you have a case with this problem,

The case cannot be fixed if it is in a shell holder with any die as the problem area is inside the shell holder.

You either have to pass that area through a die or roll size it, to reduce the diameter or remove the imperfection. Generally a flaw caused by an extractor or ejector. Often the case can be inserted into the gauge backwards and just give it a twist, then it will drop all the way in and fall out when inverted.