case head separation in .308

[AJC1]

If this is the wheeler method you are referring to,
https://precisionrifleblog.com/how-to-measure-the-distance-to-the-lands-on-your-rifle-barrel/, that’s also not what the video is showing. That is dealing with how to find where the bullet touches the lands. I have other tools for that task but that’s a different thread.

If the case were not under some amount of compression, the bolt would fall all the way down, the OP could even test this with his current “touch + fraction of turn” dies settings. Using one of his sized cases at current settings the bolt will fall just like it was on an empty chamber.

The gauges were thrown in to illustrate the differences in case gauges as well as how if you load using them, you can still be moving the brass more than necessary.

My handle will never fall like the guys that have high end actions like panda. Remington or savage it just doesnt do that. The video didn't work for some reason until I quoted your post, I wasn't trying to be contentious, I believed the link was broken.

 

[jmorris]

My handle will never fall like the guys that have high end actions like panda. Remington or savage it just doesnt do that.

That’s an “as new” Remington 700, only one I had without anything on it yet.

Your savage and Remington bolts won’t drop, empty chamber and stripped?

Link was messed up at first, was just still photo, you got to it quicker than I could fix it, sorry.

 

[mmb617]

Well it seems we've gone off on a lot of different tangents here so let me ask one simple question. This is what I've ordered. Does anyone else use this case gauge to get the proper shoulder set back on a .308?

 

[AJC1]

Well it seems we've gone off on a lot of different tangents here so let me ask one simple question. This is what I've ordered. Does anyone else use this case gauge to get the proper shoulder set back on a .308?

View attachment 1110530

That is exactly the same as an rcbs precision mic and will work just fine.

 

[Walkalong]

Well it seems we've gone off on a lot of different tangents here so let me ask one simple question. This is what I've ordered. Does anyone else use this case gauge to get the proper shoulder set back on a .308?

View attachment 1110530

I use one for 6 Dasher, not that cheaper ways don’t work, but it’s real nice and nearly idiotic proof

 

[JFrank]

I don’t know what the wheeler method is, if it’s this,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler–Kenyon_method it’s not even close to the information I was trying to convey.

It’s just how to set a size die to a given chamber, so when the bolt is closed the case is slightly compressed vs “loose” in the chamber with plenty of room to grow.

Besides not having to trim as much and the splitting problem eliminated, he will also require noticeably less effort to size because he is not moving the brass more than necessary.

Wheeler sizes the case back until the bolt just drops freely then sizes back an additional .002, this is perhaps slightly more than yours but’ it is imperative that all rounds cycle freely before and after ignition.

 

[JFrank]

Well it seems we've gone off on a lot of different tangents here so let me ask one simple question. This is what I've ordered. Does anyone else use this case gauge to get the proper shoulder set back on a .308?

View attachment 1110530

For my 308 I use a Wilson..

 

[Walkalong]

For my 308 I use a Wilson..

Me too

 

[jmorris]

Well it seems we've gone off on a lot of different tangents here so let me ask one simple question. This is what I've ordered. Does anyone else use this case gauge to get the proper shoulder set back on a .308?

I own and use case gauges but I also have a number of firearms chambered for the rounds I also own case gauges for.

If you use he method in #13, you have ammunition that fits “a” given rifle. If I crank the die down where it will pass the tightest case gauge, I have ammunition that will work in every firearm I have so chambered. Two different goals. Brass is going to be worked more in everything but it will run in anything vs being just right for 1 gun but maybe too large for another, that is also within allowable tolerance for the given caliber.

 

[AJC1]

I own and use case gauges but I also have a number of firearms chambered for the rounds I also own case gauges for.

If you use he method in #13, you have ammunition that fits “a” given rifle. If I crank the die down where it will pass the tightest case gauge, I have ammunition that will work in every firearm I have so chambered. Two different goals. Brass is going to be worked more in everything but it will run in anything vs being just right for 1 gun but maybe too large for another, that is also within allowable tolerance for the given caliber.

He pictured a headspace Guage not a standard case Guage. That is why I said it would work good. The only two I know of that worked like the ops pictured is the one in the picture and the rcbs precision mic. There is an add on mic for Wilson case guages but I haven seen or used one so I can't accurately speak on that tool.

 

[jmorris]

The headspace gauges I am familiar with are male and precision ground (go/no go) style, I guess that is kind of like the chamber method in my video but measuring in some unit you move the dies to verses a given position.?

Oh, looking closer it looks like it has “go/no go” so it’s like a casegauge but has units on it vs the “minimum” ledge and maximum face, of a regular rifle casegauge. I can see that working, slower but you don’t have to go by feel, “is it below one surface but above the other”.



Rather, thread on a cap that reads in some unit when it bottoms out on the case.?

 

[AJC1]

The headspace gauges I am familiar with are male and precision ground (go/no go) style, I guess that is kind of like the chamber method in my video but measuring in some unit you move the dies to verses a given position.?

Oh, looking closer it looks like it has “go/no go” so it’s like a casegauge but has units on it vs the “minimum” ledge and maximum face, of a regular rifle casegauge. I can see that working, slower but you don’t have to go by feel, “is it below one surface but above the other”.

View attachment 1110565

Rather, thread on a cap that reads in some unit when it bottoms out on the case.?

The cap threads on and the result is a reading not a go no go. It's a guage/mic so when you get a good chamber fit, you get a number to replicate.

 

[jmorris]

This is his video on the product.



Kind of seems like a complicated version of one of the hex “datum” blocks. Where you can get differential measurements from specific diameters on a shoulder, loaded or unloaded, in order to measure changes in different states.

Like after firing
vs ready to go again.

I think that’s good stuff to have as well.

 

[AJC1]

This is his video on the product.



Kind of seems like a complicated version of one of the hex “datum” blocks. Where you can get differential measurements from specific diameters on a shoulder, loaded or unloaded, in order to measure changes in different states.

Like after firing
View attachment 1110648 vs ready to go again. View attachment 1110649

I think that’s good stuff to have as well.

Your viewing it from a machinist mindset which I can absolutely appreciate. Not every Joe has good calipers or a good micrometer in the tool box.

 

[jmorris]

I understand, if you are a reloader and don’t have a set of calipers, I’d suggest a set before a $59-$99 one caliber, one task tool.

You don’t have to be a machinist to own comparator blocks.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012906164

 

[AJC1]

I understand, if you are a reloader and don’t have a set of calipers, I’d suggest a set before a $59-$99 one caliber, one task tool.

You don’t have to be a machinist to own comparator blocks.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012906164

If you ever in your life buy once cry once a set of good calipers is the place to do it. Tons of knockoffs around mechanical mitatoyo not so much... I know you have a set....

 

[jmorris]

I like using good calipers but I am also cheap, so I don’t always have a great feeling set with me but I always have ones that measure standards correctly and that is the most important aspect of the tool.



Probably a result of everyone sending production to China and their blatant theft of intellectual property but some of their “knock offs” seem to be made with the same equipment as the “real thing”?

 

[Walkalong]

This is his video on the product.



Kind of seems like a complicated version of one of the hex “datum” blocks. Where you can get differential measurements from specific diameters on a shoulder, loaded or unloaded, in order to measure changes in different states.

Like after firing
View attachment 1110648 vs ready to go again. View attachment 1110649

I think that’s good stuff to have as well.

I have both and both work, but the Whidden is simply easier.

Not everyone is a mechanical genius like you, and I mean that in a good (great) way, some folks just struggle with all things mechanical.

My buddy gets measurements all over the place with his Hornady set that goes on calipers, a perfectly good system, but when we are measuring that close sloppy doesn't work. He finally got the Whidden and 99% of his sizing issues went away.

 

[jmorris]

…some folks just struggle with all things mechanical.

I understand that we all simply don’t know what we don’t know. Why I made the video of setting up the die for the rifle as one doesn’t even need to know how to correctly operate any measuring tool, rather adjust the die down in small increments until you reach the point the bolt handle will fall.

Of course that method assumes you already have the knowledge to strip your bolt for cleaning and I understand there are people that would first have to learn how to do that.

 

[AJC1]

I understand that we all simply don’t know what we don’t know. Why I made the video of setting up the die for the rifle as one doesn’t even need to know how to correctly operate any measuring tool, rather adjust the die down in small increments until you reach the point the bolt handle will fall.

Of course that method assumes you already have the knowledge to strip your bolt for cleaning and I understand there are people that would first have to learn how to do that.

If one has a savage I highly recommend measuring the ball in the bolt, size of a bb, and ordering a bag of them. I've shot a lot of them across the garage and into the dirt in the desert. If your buying them from a gun supply house your spending huge money you don't have to.

 

[JFrank]

If one has a savage I highly recommend measuring the ball in the bolt, size of a bb, and ordering a bag of them. I've shot a lot of them across the garage and into the dirt in the desert. If your buying them from a gun supply house your spending huge money you don't have to.

Inside a big freezer bag s a great place to work small parts. I hate stripping bolts just to get a one time measurement that really isn’t anything more than a starting point.

 

[JFrank]

Generally speaking calipers can be manipulated to read differently from case to case, I think guys get too hung up on monitoring each case being sized and rounds seated.
Added; I do not like comparators that cover the case shoulder junction, preference goes to a comparator that uses a datum half way on the shoulder.

 

[mmb617]

I have both and both work, but the Whidden is simply easier.

My buddy gets measurements all over the place with his Hornady set that goes on calipers, a perfectly good system, but when we are measuring that close sloppy doesn't work. He finally got the Whidden and 99% of his sizing issues went away.

Thank you as this is what I really wanted to know. I'll find out for myself when it arrives as I already ordered it, but I was curious whether others had tried it and found any problems with it.

Even though I've been on various forums for 20 years I'm still amazed at how many directions a thread will go and how the longer it goes the farther it drifts!

 

[AJC1]

Thank you as this is what I really wanted to know. I'll find out for myself when it arrives as I already ordered it, but I was curious whether others had tried it and found any problems with it.

Even though I've been on various forums for 20 years I'm still amazed at how many directions a thread will go and how the longer it goes the farther it drifts!

I think you will be very happy with that tool. Works on all 308 based cases like 243 and 260