How do gun shops stay in business?

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BluesDancer

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Hi THR,
I have a question for you all. When I go into my local gun shop, I notice that they offer many different goods and services to the public (at least mine does). My question is – which of the below tends to have a large profit margin and which tends to have a minimal profit margin (everything else equal)?

I am asking because I have pondered going into the gun business and was wondering what will tend to make an FFL turn a profit versus going out of business (if one opened a gun shop, bought space and inventory, etc).

1: New Firearms
2: Used Firearms
3: Ammunition
4: Gun Specific Accessories (e.g., magazines, grips, sights, holsters, etc)
5: Non-Gun Specific Accessories (e.g., flashlights, gun cases, cleaning supplies, instructional videos, etc)
6: Legal Firearm Transfers
7: Firearm Training Classes
8: Firearm-related Events
9: Attached Pistol/Rifle Range
10: Gunsmithing Services
 
I think my local store sells a lot of reloading supplies, ammunition, holsters and cases, targets, cleaning materials, and gun accessories. They also sell a lot of consignment guns, probably more than new long guns, and a lot of pistols. It doesn't hurt that he is probably the best gunsmith in northern Colorado, although his personality probably puts some people off, but they have been there about 30 years so I think they are doing okay. As a business owner in a different field I will tell you that I believe you can be successful if you find what the market is in your area and then meet the needs. You will not be able to compete pricewise with the big box stores or internet but you can sell service and quality that most of them will not be able to match. You have to cultivate a clientelle that understands that the lowest price is not always the best deal in the long run. You do not want to build a business based on "cheapest price" because your customer base will have NO loyalty. Just read any of the threads on this site concerning internet sales or discounters...... Not all are High Road.
 
Retail Firearms Business

Buying preowned guns/collections for cash is the best money maker. Some will need repair, so know what to look for on inspection. Profit is made on the target shooters. Hunters can have the same box of 30-30 ammo for 10 years, only shooting 2 shots a year. 1 at a pie plate on sighin, another at a deer, if they get so lucky. Selling ammo-Years ago Federal had an opening order of 100 cases minimum to get the best price/discount. Great discount, free shipping. After the 100 cases, a dealer could place smaller orders for a case or two. http://premiumpartners.atk.com/partner_programs/co-op.aspx New Firearms- The hard to get new models will bring full retail price or higher. No discount on these models. The problem is getting them. Your distributors salesman that comes to your business more or less decides who gets them. Back in the day, you had to buy 5 Ruger handguns to get 2 S&W. I would hope things are different now?? Currently, the $40 extra to do the paper work on a gun, new or transfer, is a real money maker today. Years ago, it came out of dealer profits. When the year is over, will you be happy with a net profit of 3% ? Remember, volume & turnover is king.
 
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My LGS operator closed up the shop and drove with my son and I to the gun range so my son could testfire a used Marlin 336C himself before deciding to buy it. That's how gun shops stay in business. Can't do that over the web.
 
One of my local gun stores, generally viewed as the best one, sells around 30 guns a day during the weekdays and around 100 on Saturdays. Of course, they sell other things as well.
 
I recently wondered the same thing in a thread about taking transfers from Bud's. My LGS has a number of curios and relics and militaria (swords, cannons), and a lot of long guns. And a lot of old (1950s?) gun safes. But there's rarely more than a few people around, and I've often been the only customer in there. They do have the only range for miles around, and I'm thinking they may do a brisk trade on weekends, but they don't charge much. Interesting business model.
 
From what I've seen, and with my own gun sales/smithing/manufacturing, and other businesses, the secret is the same for all businesses: No debt, low overhead, own your place of business, and diversify within your business with what appeals to your client base. That will give you the ability to hang in there when times are tough while competitors are dropping like flies with their rented space, financed inventory, excess employees, etc.

It's not so much what you sell as it is about how you sell.

Woody
 
Accessories and add-ons are where most of the money is. The margin for firearms is pretty low at most shops. Ideally, you add ammunition, holster, gun box/safe, etc to gun sales. CCW classes are easy money, too.
 
From the ones I spoken too...they mostly do it out of principle. They want to offer a service to the public. They can run a business and make ends meet...but they won't ever be rich.

Lot of hassle for only a little bit of profit.
 
Approximate mark up, but:

1: New Firearms: 15%-25%

2: Used Firearms: 50%-150%

3: Ammunition: 20%

4: Gun Specific Accessories (e.g., magazines, grips, sights, holsters, etc): 30%-50%

5: Non-Gun Specific Accessories (e.g., flashlights, gun cases, cleaning supplies, instructional videos, etc): 30%-50%

Used guns and accessories are the money makers. I don't know of any gun shop that will buy a used gun for more than 60% of what they believe they can sell it for.

The last five are extremely variable. They are all 100% gross profit, but the net will vary widely.

6: Legal Firearm Transfers
7: Firearm Training Classes
8: Firearm-related Events
9: Attached Pistol/Rifle Range
10: Gunsmithing Services
 
You have to be comfortable keeping meticulous records. Sloppy records will get you in trouble with ATF, and they can make your life miserable.

More generally, it seems that a lot of "gun people" are not good business people, and do not have the mindset of an accountant. If you can't be an accountant yourself, at least hire a good one.
 
Mach IV: Do you mean markup or margin? If you mark something up by a multiplier of 100% your margin (without deducting overhead or taxes) will be 50%. Selling something that costs less than $10,000 at a 15% markup will not keep your doors open unless you are selling hundreds of them.....

A lot of that is because of the number of folks buying with plastic these days, especially with the "cash back" plastic. You can deduct 3% from the gross (including the sales tax) plus the added charges from the fools who want to use plastic to make a $10 purchase. If those who complain so loudly about the excesses of small business had to deal with the realities of the financial side of business they would probably be just as stupid but bankrupt. Such is the state of economic understanding in the modern world.
 
from my personal experience all on your list will be a piece of the pie. Used guns if purchased at a good price will make a greater % of profit than a new firearm. Accesories will require inventory and the age old merchant problem of what will sell, some items you will be wiping dust off of them for years (although with fast internet shipping now you can reduce some of that inventory). Doing firearm transfers is a good way to make some coin and you have nothing invested except some time to fill out the paperwork and call it in if your state requires it, it is also a great way to get new customers into your store. If you are a gunsmith you will get a good hourly rate, but it will take time away from dealing with customers and require an investment in the tools and fixtures. Repeat business is the key and the way you treat your customers is the key to make that happen. A range will bring in some money, but it is no way a 100% profit maker, you will need insurance and someone to run it and keep it safe. Plastic will cost you at least 3%, I had a sign saying that all prices were cash prices and explained why, customers understood.

with that all said it was one of the best times of my life, didn't get rich but made a good living
 
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Mach IV: Do you mean markup or margin?

I said mark up in that post.

Selling something that costs less than $10,000 at a 15% markup will not keep your doors open unless you are selling hundreds of them.....

Gun shops don't stay in business selling new guns. That's precisely the point I was illustrating.
 
^ +1.
You'll starve to death if you try to make a living selling nothing but new firearms. That's why there's generally no room to negotiate on new stuff and there usually is on used stuff.

It's just like gas stations. They don't make money on the fuel sales. That's just how they get you in the door.
 
the quickest way to a million dollars owning a gunshop is to start out with two million dollars.
 
With gun shows (where you have dozens of competitors packed in to the same room/building) and gunbroker (where you have thousands of competitors packed on the same auction site), *new* and *used* gun margins are nowhere near where they used to be, and nowhere near what MachIVshooter indicates - at least in this region.

I had a real hard time making money as an FFL (I actually lost money for 2 1/2 years, then "closed the doors").

One disadvantage of a local gun shop on new and used firearms is first, local and state sales tax. 8% was the rate I was under with my FFL. On a $500 firearm, that's $40, or roughly equivalent to the cost of shipping and transfer (which is the primary disadvantage of online sales).

Ammo was worse. We had to sell at about a 10% markup to stay competitive with online and other FFL's (nowhere NEAR MSRP...), but remember this was back in 2006/2007 when no one was paying MSRP. Now, gun shops are probably doing OK on ammo (when they can get it) since short supply has everyone pays MSRP without haggling. :)

Transfers are also highly competitive - there are some local FFL's who do inbound transfers for $15. Most are in the $20 to 25 range. With a $2 fee going to the state, that leaves $13 for the bank.

Cost of doing business was high too. FFL licensing wasn't expensive, but insurance sure was high; ours was over $3,000 a year. I also wanted a legal barrier between me and lawsuits, so incorporated as an LLC, which was an additional $500 a year in this state.

Stocking inventory was shockingly expensive. To get a decent selection of ammunition you'd have to spend about 10-15k, at least. Guns were worse. To have a selection of new guns, the sky is the limit, but I put in about 40-50k at the beginning. By the end of two years I had $140,000 invested in inventory. (Tried to keep "new things coming in" so the inventory wasn't stale; otherwise people would stop coming in...)

You have to buy a LOT of hardware to get quantity breaks. (Usually 5 or 10+ guns). If you can't afford to do that, and the other guys can, it means they can either sell cheaper and cut your margin out, or they can sell the same and make more money per transaction than you do. Either way, the small FFL loses.

We had a disadvantage in that several area shops had HUGE inventory (easily 1 million +).

Now the places that did make a dent on expenses?

*Used guns - trade-ins. Margins on used guns and trade-ins are good, IF you can haggle. Some guys will treat it like car shopping, and go around to all the shops getting a value. Then trade or sell based on that.

*Reloading components; we could make trips to Missouri and stock up on military pulldowns. Those cases / powder / pulled bullets, had a pretty good margins. Also did a stiff business on 50 cal reconditioned military ammo cans. We were paying $2.50 a piece for them (in pallet quantity) and selling them for $7 to $10 back then.

But mostly.. it just sucked, and I invested a lot of money in to a losing proposition. After 2 1/2 years I decided to stop the loss, started winding things down, and turned in my FFL at the end of 3 years.

If I were to do it all over again when I retire, I would change the business plan:

A) Build an indoor shooting range.
B) Provide training services (I'm certified now to teach rifle, pistol, shotgun, and concealed carry classes)
C) More ideas yet to be determined...

Given sufficient startup funds, I'd also :

Get my SOT and rent machine-guns. (I've seen others do this and it creates quite a buzz and client draw)

And;

Buy enough land to have a good set of ranges (trap, sporting clays, 100, 300, 500, 600, 800, 900, and 1000 yard rifle range berms). (this could provide yearly membership dues and a base income to operate with.)

Anyway, I plan on doing the range/training thing when I retire, I often check rural real estate listings. Will probably get an FFL again when it comes time. But the FFL won't be the ONLY way I try to make money this time; when I did it before, I lost money. A lot.
 
Repeat customers. My LGS employees know me by name and my family. They know my likes. They know my dislikes. An example is they know I'm a revolver guy. They are always sure to show me the newest set of Smith PC guns when they get them. They usually give me a small discount, which doesn't amount to much for them, but I'll keep coming back. I passed over powder and bullets at the most recent gun show, not because they weren't a good deal, but they were only $3-5 cheaper than my LGS. I'd rather spend a few more bucks at my LGS to keep them in business. Might seem odd to some, but I prefer my hometown guys. They are always willing to meet or beat Midways pricing if I point it out to them.
 
hey are all 100% gross profit, but the net will vary widely.

6: Legal Firearm Transfers
7: Firearm Training Classes
8: Firearm-related Events
9: Attached Pistol/Rifle Range
10: Gunsmithing Services

Ummmm, no.

Unless 6) their time, and the storage place to keep the records for 20 years is worth =nothing= and given to them for free.

7) same as 6, only now we add the space where the class takes place ... which they apparently got for free and keep open for free. Wow, what lucky guys!

8) oh ya, those don't cost nuthin to put on, or take any owners/employees time

9) just sprung up out of the earth and the insurance/staff is paid for by Nationwide.

10) that old guy back there fixin them guns we bought at a yard sale years ago, he's a slave so we don't have to pay him... we found all his tools in a dumpster, and of course the space he works in is free.
 
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