How do we stop PA from becoming NY?

Status
Not open for further replies.

MartinBrody

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
334
Location
PA
Philadelphia politicians keep pushing the State for tougher gun laws. Today there was a gun control rally in the capitol, they want a one gun a month law.

PA and NY are similar because they are mostly rural with an urban center. Even worse is that PA is going liberal, fast! We had a republican Governor and 2 Republican Senators not long ago. Now we have an anti-gun Governor (who is a former Philly mayor), and will soon be replacing our pro-gun Senator with a Democrat.

Someone please give me some hope.

I am the NRA and I vote:
Santorum
Gerlach
Swann
 
On the news they were saying that an 'unofficial' vote was taken, and it looks like NONE of the new gun-control measures would pass.

:neener:
 
I lived all my life except for the past two in PA. When I was a kid, all the Philly burbs were solid Republican. Now they have become essentially Democrat. Lots of urban flight and what do you know, they bring their liberal views, even though that's what they are fleeing in the first place. Lots of limosine liberals who have made money and now feel guilty so they become liberals. And lots of soccer moms that vote and also convince their spineless husband be liberal and anti gun. The rest of the state has more deer than people. Metro Philly and metro Pittsburgh rule PA.
 
In terms of state level gun groups, there is a hodge podge of locals, none of which IMO stand out above the others. Fortunately, {knocks wood} there's been little to no need of one, but my experience in NJ tells me that every state should have at least one very strong gun rights group along the lines of TSRA or the VCDL.
 
The problem with PA sportsmen groups is that they have been hoodwinked in the past to vote for reasonable measures of gun control in hopes that the anti-gunners will leave them alone. A lot of it has to do with protecting hunting and more civilized sports than the RKBA. Which is why you don't see a whole lot of them with any real clout, they don't have the membership anymore. Folks got burned and never bothered with them again for the most part. Without the memberships, these groups don't act, they figure if they don't have the support, why should they bother whereas the good people of this fine state figure if they burned us all once, they need to make amends before we make donations. We've had good luck in regards to non-grouped folks making their voices heard with their elected critters, but there's more we could be doing.

In the Senate race, Santorum is a hair better than Casey in my estimates (regardless of party), but the big thing is for us to get Rendell out of office for his anti-gun stance as well as all the other harm he's done this state. I think Santorum will win out in the senate if Casey keeps skipping out on debates (that's what I'm reading anyway) and he really hasn't said much of anything. He doesn't come down hard one side or the other at this point, which news papers say is his appeal for middle-of-the-road voters. However, come election time, I think that this will hurt him. I could be wrong, neither candidate is a good thing for gun rights, but Santorum is slightly less crappy.

Bottom line, Rendell needs to go. Swann being a football player may seem like a joke, but he's our best shot in that office and he's endorsed by the NRA (for you NRA members).
 
Philly Enquirer has whole section up on today

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15612679.htm

The gun controversy
Philadelphia residents rally in Harrisburg to protest gun violence.

By Vernon Clark
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

On one of the many buses headed from Philadelphia to Harrisburg this morning for the rally against violence, the 49 passengers insisted "enough is enough."

After the group ate a bagged breakfast, Lance Haver, the city's consumer advocate told them, "There are 35 buses like this leaving Philadelphia. Nothing like this has ever been done before, so you are making history."

Jackie Morrison, a recreational therapist from West Oak Lane, said, "With the number of people killed in Philadelphia over the last 10 years, we should have 100 buses."

Haver continued to explain to the passengers the objective of the rally -- which will include a noon prayer vigil on the Capitol steps and 2 p.m. call for action rally.

"We're going to support one gun a month," he said, referring to legislation proposed by State Rep. John Myers, D.-Phila.

"We want to stop the straw purchases of handguns. There is no program that can bring back a child who has been murdered. We want lawmakers to know that the NRA is not the only voice they are hearing."

Today's event in Harrisburg was organized by the Pennsylvania Coalition to End Handgun Violence. The group's mission is to stop the illegal flow of handguns and urge legislators to enact more effective laws to curb gun crime.

Bob J. Perkins, 62, who described himself as "the mayor of Mantua," said he supports the efforts to pressure legislators to take action, but he also stressed the need for greater personal responsibility to avoid and prevent violence.

"I'm concerned about what is going on in Mantua and around the city with guns," Perkins said.

"We have to get guns off the corner...it starts in your neighborhood, on your block, and in your house," he added.

Gladys Hubbard, a retired school nurse from King of Prussia, said, "I'm coming to raise my voice as a concerned person of faith. Our African-American males and children are the most vulnerable. They are the ones being victimized. I don't want to sit idly by while people are dying."

Hubbard said the unified effort should grab the attention of lawmakers.

"A thousand or more voices should make a difference politically. This is just one area. It will take many things to stop the violence."

As the bus made its way along the Pennsylvamia Turnpike to Harrisburg, passengers talked about the impact of gun violence.

Harriet Jaffe, 63, a retired medical assistant from Center City, said "I'm horrified by all the killings and the crime. It's black on black most of the time and I wanted to show that white people care."

She noted that Philadelphia was recently ranked at the top of the list of large cities with gun violence.

"To be ranked the worst in the country on crime and violence is terrible," she said. "There are so many other things we should be number one for."

Rosemarie Cadeau, 16, of Shellcross High School in Northeast Philadelphia, said she came to show that young people support this effort. "I wanted to be part of this. It's a very good cause. I stand against violence and killing."

John Waggner, 18, a senior at Shellcross, said, "I have a friend who was killed over an argument on September 4. I feel they should stop immediately.

Photos, etc., also on the page.

And this, too:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15612423.htm

Gun supporters in Harrisburg: Crime is Philadelphia’s problem
By Michael Vitez
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

About 100 gun owners from around Pennsylvania roamed the capitol today, encouraging legislators to oppose any new laws limiting their right to own and bear arms.

The men were steadfast: crime is Philadelphia's problem, caused by Philadelphians, and any new laws to restrict the sale of guns won't solve it. There is only one solution, they said, crack down on criminals, enforce laws that already exist, and end what one gun supporter called "Philadelphia's catch and release program. It works with fish, but not with criminals," said Dennis Pavlik, director of legislative affairs for Firearms Owners Against Crime in Presto, in Allegheny County.

The gun supporters see this as a bedrock, basic, fundamental constitutional issue, and they are passionate. "Tell these legislators we expect them to exercise their oath of office and uphold our freedoms," Kim Stolfer, who organized today's pro-gun effort, told his troops before sending them out to buttonhole legislators.

These folks recited statistic after statistic:

"The highest rate of crime occurs in cities with the toughest gun laws," said John Brinson, chairman of the Lehigh Valley Firearms Coalition. "Citizens don't have guns. That means criminals have free reign to do what they want."

"It's a fact that when you allow people to carry concealed weapons, crime goes down, because criminals don't know who's carrying a gun," said Mike Cancel, a gun owner from Washington, Pa.

He and many others were extremely hostile toward Philadelphia, and resented efforts to abate Philadelphia's problems by forcing stricter laws on the state.

"It's their children that they didn't raise right, who don't know who their father is - it's strictly a Philadephia problem. The children are out of control. We have tons of laws alrady. The laws are not being enforced."

The gun owners also said they didn't accept any argument that if guns were restricted and limited, that streets would be safer. They contended the criminals would still have guns, and they wouldn't. "When the bad guys don't have one anymore, I'll turn mine in," he said.

Cancel, 53, an engineer, contended passionately that the second admentment is essential, that America is spiraling out of control, and it is vital that citizens possess firearms in order to fight tryanny foreign and domestic. "As the world continues to deteriorate, and we don't know what's going to happen next, do we want future generations the option to defend themselves? The population has to have parity against the standing military, man for man."

Cancel also claimed that "the judicial system is more of a problem than the guns on the street," and "70 percent of all crime is committed by repeat offenders."

Another gun owner wore a t-shirt: The Second Amendment: the original homeland security."

Most legislators they came to see were actually in session, debating the proposed gun restrictions and other matters, but they did find Rep Dave Reed of Indiana County in his office. After a long-winded argument, Reed interrupted and told the genetleman, "You're preaching to the choir. I'm an NRA member. I'm already with you."

Daryl Metcalfe, a house member from Butler, issued a statement opposing some of the main proposals being considered by the Comminttee on the Whole, including limiting gun sales to one a month, and a ban on semi-automatic firearms. Metcalfe said guns were not the problem.

"This cultural problem is the breakdown of the family and the subsequent absence of positive parental influences and supervision in children's lives," he said. "....Absent fathers, financial hardship and lack of meaningful parental influence and availability in children's lives are a disastrous formula for social unrest and violence."

Stolfer, a postal worker from Bridgeville, in the Pittsburgh area, organized the pro gun effort. He said he's a former U.S. Marine who became a vocal gun-supporter after a school-shooting in Stockton, California. He was outraged to find the shooter had been set free on a plea bargain. He believed that had law enforcement officials done their job, and incarcerated the killer, the Stockton tragedy would have never occurred. "How many lives would have been spared if judges had done their jobs and enforced the laws on the books?" Stolfer asked.

Stolfer contended there is immense opposition -- though perhaps silent -- to any new restrictions on the purchase and possession of guns. He said if the legislators passed the anti-gun laws proposed by Philadelphia legislators, "they'll have tens of thousands of gun owners standing in the street. And the protest will pale in comparison to today."

Only perhaps 100 gun owners came Tuesday to defend their rights, he said, but should these law pass, two million gun owners in Pennsylvania would speak out.
 
Martin, do you belong to a Gun Club in Pa.?

Yes I do, Kimberton Fish & Game Association, here is their site.
http://www.kfga.net

I have also been a member at McSherrystown F&G near Gettysburg, PA.

There are plenty of active gun clubs here in the Philly suburbs (at least 4 I know of in Chester County). I don't think many gun clubs in PA would support one gun a month. But we are getting surrounded by McMansions, and they are not inhabited by as many republicans as you would think. The whole area between Philly & Lancaster is getting more and more urbanized, crime, drugs, gangs. We all know where it leads in the end.
 
Gun supporters in Harrisburg: Crime is Philadelphia’s problem
By Michael Vitez
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

That was a great article thanks for posting, there is hope.
 
Just so you know

I'm doing my part even from here in People's Replublic of California. I encouraged a buddy of mine, a Pittsburgh resident, to get him, and his wife, a Concealed Carry Permit. I told him just adding them to the list is helping the cause for all of us in the not so free states. Funny thing is, he really doesn't carry, though he does own a gun. He did mention now that he's legal to do so, he's gonna start packing some heat LOL. Keep hammerin' guys and gals.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 
Does everyone here realize that the second article (Gun supporters in Harrisburg: Crime is Philadelphia’s problem) was written and spun to villify gun owners in the eyes of Philadelphians, so they know who to blame when their schemes come crashing down?
 
A colleague of mine is the wife of a PA State House rep. Her unofficial, personal view was that none of the measures had any chance whatsoever of seeing passage. That doesn't mean to let up on making your thoughts known to your reps, even if they are bottom of the barrel Ferlo-ites.
 
Thread question asks..."How do we stop PA from becoming NY"

Answer:

The same way Florida stops the gun grabbers. All of our major cities are jam packed with gun-grabbing leftists. We're larger than PA, and we're more diverse. This is a tough place. However, our legislators are hard-core and as a whole are very conservative and DO NOT represent the whole of the state. IE, the governemnt is more pro-gun than the general population.

That's a direct result of political activism done right.

Florida maintains its strong pro-gun stature simply because of the strangle hold we have on the State House and Senate. That's the key. You have to get people to vote in local elections when there's no major national election (like this year). Believe it or not, your vote counts many times more in local off-year elections because you're going to be 1 voice in 10,000, vs. 1 voice in 150,000. Yet, the political ramifications are JUST AS CRUCIAL. Most people skip the locals as they don't know who their state rep is. Yet, that state rep decides CCW and other issues for you.


Once they gain control, that congress should (hopefully) immediately move to gerrymander the hell out of the state. They must squash the voice of the leftist gun-grabbers. You have to put them at a huge disadvantage. It's the only way. They're doing it in every single anti-gun state to us. It's the way the game is played. They have to be systematically disenfranchised, otherwise they will tyrannize you with their stupid bolshevik style politics which have no place in our system whatsoever. Hopefully, the new pro-gun majority will take issue with the problematic districts and move to "reform" them.

If the pro-gun majority is big enough, they will automatically do this sort of thing as the nature of governemnt and majorities is to trample on minorities.

It really comes down to the exact numbers. No one forumla is right for chopping up districts. It depends on the geography and the population of an area. Whatever the strategy, it must be made to eliminate as many of their representatives as possible. Think of it like cutting a cancerous tumor out.


Finally, you should support at all costs voter reform. While I hate the idea of an ID card... this legislation will kill literally tens of thousands of illegal voters. The leftists are notorious for having felons, illegal immigrants, and dead people vote. Also, many of them are snowbirds and vote in multiple states abusing the absentee ballot system. With the massive hoards of illegal immigrants, we stand no chance in the future unless we can guarantee only CITIZENS vote.

You should recall the Florida 2000 election where the democratic party insisted that we throw away the absentee ballots of Navy personnel because of a post marking error...all while they demanded that convicted rapists, robbers and murders should not be denied the right to vote. That's the kind of evil extremism we face.


That's pretty much it. If you want to prevent PA from becoming like NY, you have to beat them at the ballot box. This is why California will never, ever, ever be reformed. It is too hard to rebuild the gun culture once it is dead, and the legislators are killing it for future generations in that state because the gun-owners are getting demolished at the ballots. Kids born today will never see a day in California where it is legal to own a semi-auto rifle like an AR. That is extreme. Try convincing that person that an AR is perfectly ok to use. That's what Oleg does. These are reactionary measures to counter the damaging propaganda effects of guncontrol on a society. IF you can prevent the gun culture from dying in the first place, that is much better than doing damage control or education later on to try and bring back a RIGHT from the dead. Think of it like trying to form a pro-Jewish political group to protest the Nazis in Berlin during the height of Nazi power. It is futile. They've got the majority to the point where you have no avenue for progress.


What's that saying? An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure?
 
Unfortunately I couldn't take off work yesterday, or I would have been there. However, I did work my Press contacts the best I could (didn't help much), One thing I recommend, let's find a list of the Mayors who attended in support, then sned them some nicely worded letters. Make sure to point out facts in the arguements, adn ask why they are governing by emotion, rather than fact.

Then drop the bomb, I've got one drafted to the York Mayor (major rebuild going on down there, desperate for any revenue), I've outlined the facts and concluded that since they don't value my safty, and don't value me as a veteran, taxpayer (with high tech job), and gun owner, then they don't need my money, and I will immediately stop my monthly shopping trips to the city, as well as cancle several upcoming tours I provide to friends to the York Weight lifting museum. I will further no longer attend the York Fair, or when available the baseball games (and when the team plays out of town, I'll not be at those either). I don't need York, I can go to other towns who respect me and my heritage.

I figure if enough gun owners target the smaller towns and municipalities who've supported this, and made their point clear through facts and economics, the smaller ones will get the point. Philly is lost, Street will never listen to a bunch of 'redneck white boys' when it comes to his city. However, the smaller ones, even Reading, we can have a big impact on. then with their help, we can apply the preasure on Philly.
 
As a Philadelphia resident

I am counting on the rest of the state to do the right thing.

The media keep harping on the "illegal guns" flooding our city, mostly to pacify the yuppies that are moving into the city now. Many of them (the yuppies) are realizing that Philly is a dangerous place, and want to see someone doing "something" about it. Instead of making any real changes, the .gov here decides to target the "evil" legal guns.
 
But we are getting surrounded by McMansions, and they are not inhabited by as many republicans as you would think. The whole area between Philly & Lancaster is getting more and more urbanized, crime, drugs, gangs. We all know where it leads in the end.

We moved from Eagle/Ludwigs Corner area of Chester County a little over two years ago. We still own our home there and rent it out so I still have a connection with PA. The entire area is going from rural/semi-rural to high density suburban. Soccer moms, New Yorkers and ex New Jerseyeans rule Chester, Montgomery and Bucks County now. Forget about Delaware County, that was lost years ago. I still like the area, but am not very optimitic about the political landscape. PA is now a confirmed Blue state.

BTW. I know Rick Santorum personally. He is one of the few conservative Republicans left. He is not anti-gun.
 
While it's true that the PHL burbs are trending blue, they're not so far gone that their loss is a conclusion. (I did a fair amount of number crunching on that very topic, being a DE county resident)

The element that worries me is the the local GOP seems to be working on inertia, oblivious to the danger. Classic example: In 2004, the Dems were all over the place, going door to door, putting out signs, hassling, er, prosyletizing people on the street during the fall festival, and the GOP was nowhere to be seen, like they weren't even trying.

PHL, of course, is a total loss.

Pittsburgh, OTOH, is trending Red, but hasn't reached the tipping point yet.
 
The question they never answer...

I live in SE PA. Yesterday, each of 3 the local am news stations I listen to had blurbs about the rally in Philly. Each station played the audio of Mayor Street:

"There are about 31,000 gun permits issued in Philadelphia. That's waaaay too many." (his emphasis, not mine.)

Here's the question no one ever asks, or at least the question I've never heard him answer:

Of the total gun crimes committed in Philly, how many are committed by permit holders?

I have a suspsicion the number is 0. I recall reading that other states and cities have established offices to track and analyze potential ties between gun permits and people committing crimes with guns, and in every case, the offices are closed after a year or two, because there is no link to be analyzed.

I'd like to have those stats on Philly. Then even the most myopic "angry mother" would have to admit that doing away with permits in Philly will only disarm the law-abiding, and make them easier targets.

For the record, I rarely go to Philly. But anytime I do, I carry. PA law is pretty clear that cities and counties can't make their own laws in contrast to state carry laws. But if Rendell/Street ever get an amendment passed, I'll never visit Philly again.
 
PHL, of course, is a total loss.

I agree. Until we get some accountability at the polling places, Philly will always manufacture enough votes to keep things going their way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top