WhoKnowsWho
Member
Well, I will bring up the points again in a few months. That's what we tend to do.
How do you argue with someone like this?
- Thread starter WhoKnowsWho
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Heraclitus
Member
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- Mar 8, 2004
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You mean she's only against boom-boom and BOOM in the boonies?
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Powderman
Member
Uh oh. Brakes on, dude.
I know that this has nothing to do with the subject....
but if she has a husband, what is your role in the picture?
Unless this is your sister, mother, in-law, or other relative, the best place for you to be is far, far away.
Understand this---there are some people who will NOT change, regardless of what you might do.
And, if she is married and is not related to you, her significant other might interpret your intentions the wrong way.
WhoKnowsWho
Member
My role is co-worker and friend who fights to spread the RKBA. He thinks the same as I do when I last talked to him. So coming at her from both sides doesn't bother him one bit.
And her daughter also wants to get a CCW to defend herself and her son, so she wants me to talk to the mother about it also, since the mother doesn't want the danger of a gun around her grand son.
Spreading the word on a subject is one thing, but to force your opinon on someone to the point of an argument is quite another. It sounds like you have talked to her, but she has her own convictions.
Let's reverse roles. Say you are the only firearm owner in your family. Your spouse and siblings want you to rid yourselves of your firearms. They have expressed their concerns about it to you and since you are not responding to their wishes they then obtain help from like minded friends to further push the issue at you. Would you appreciate this even though your mind is firmly made up? No matter how you may see or feel about a subject you have to realize that the other person has the right to their own beliefs even if it counters yours. That also is one of the basic freedoms of this country. Stepping on one right to force another will make you no better than any anti-gunner.
Provide the information then allow the person to decide. The USA is supposed to be about being able to make decisions and not having them forced down someone's throat. Two wrongs don't make a right so don't stoop to the opposition's level. Set a higher goal.
I think a lot of people forget this when they want to argue about gun rights.
Let's reverse roles. Say you are the only firearm owner in your family. Your spouse and siblings want you to rid yourselves of your firearms. They have expressed their concerns about it to you and since you are not responding to their wishes they then obtain help from like minded friends to further push the issue at you. Would you appreciate this even though your mind is firmly made up? No matter how you may see or feel about a subject you have to realize that the other person has the right to their own beliefs even if it counters yours. That also is one of the basic freedoms of this country. Stepping on one right to force another will make you no better than any anti-gunner.
Provide the information then allow the person to decide. The USA is supposed to be about being able to make decisions and not having them forced down someone's throat. Two wrongs don't make a right so don't stoop to the opposition's level. Set a higher goal.
I think a lot of people forget this when they want to argue about gun rights.
The_Antibubba
Member
Yes, she's a lost cause. Fortunately, it seems the rest of her family is not. She seems a little fragile, emotionally, and I don't think logic is going to work in this case.
Werewolf called it-she's a total blissninny. but at least she isn't going to be a Dozen Mom marcher, or anything else that requires will or sense of purpose. If she had strong definable feelings, you could argue with her. But she doesn't seem to have a real strong sense of Self.
Troubling.
Werewolf called it-she's a total blissninny. but at least she isn't going to be a Dozen Mom marcher, or anything else that requires will or sense of purpose. If she had strong definable feelings, you could argue with her. But she doesn't seem to have a real strong sense of Self.
Troubling.
entropy
Member
Try this:
If you woke up in the middle of the night and found out someone was trying to kill your son/daughter in the next room RIGHT NOW, and on your night stand were two items: A gun and a phone; which would you pick up?" If they say phone, don't bother. The conversation ends there. If they say gun, then you tell them as responsible parents then, they should learn how to shoot, store, clean a gun. "How can you make that choice if there is no gun in your house??"
If she will not defend herself, that is her choice. (I agree that self-esteem is at issue here) However, would she really sacrifice her daughters' life, or that grandchild?
Unfortunately with a person ruled by her fears, the only way to motivate her to overcome her fears is to present a bigger one. This is the technique used by Drill Instructors and Sergeants in the military to overcome a soldiers' natural aversion to placing ones' self in the line of fire. They make the soldier so afraid of them , the fear of the rounds coming at them disappears.
Since she has no fear of her own life being taken, one would hope her fear for her childs' or grandchilds' life would overcome her fear of guns. If not , like the voice in 'The Amityville Horror' said "GET OUT! " Then , she is a lost cause!
If you woke up in the middle of the night and found out someone was trying to kill your son/daughter in the next room RIGHT NOW, and on your night stand were two items: A gun and a phone; which would you pick up?" If they say phone, don't bother. The conversation ends there. If they say gun, then you tell them as responsible parents then, they should learn how to shoot, store, clean a gun. "How can you make that choice if there is no gun in your house??"
If she will not defend herself, that is her choice. (I agree that self-esteem is at issue here) However, would she really sacrifice her daughters' life, or that grandchild?
Unfortunately with a person ruled by her fears, the only way to motivate her to overcome her fears is to present a bigger one. This is the technique used by Drill Instructors and Sergeants in the military to overcome a soldiers' natural aversion to placing ones' self in the line of fire. They make the soldier so afraid of them , the fear of the rounds coming at them disappears.
Since she has no fear of her own life being taken, one would hope her fear for her childs' or grandchilds' life would overcome her fear of guns. If not , like the voice in 'The Amityville Horror' said "GET OUT! " Then , she is a lost cause!
twoblink
Member
Aspirin, can cure a headache or kill someone...
So let me guess, she's afraid of aspirin? ? ?
You don't argue with people like this. Arguement requires logic.. she has none.
Smile, pat her on the head, and tell her "Good dog.. you are obedient to your Masters..."
And walk away...
So let me guess, she's afraid of aspirin? ? ?
You don't argue with people like this. Arguement requires logic.. she has none.
Smile, pat her on the head, and tell her "Good dog.. you are obedient to your Masters..."
And walk away...
WhoKnowsWho
Member
What usually brings up the discussion is...
Her 1.) What did you do this weekend
or 2.) Did you see the news about that lady/guy who was killed/raped/kidnapped
or 3.) She sees my magazines
So I 1.) Went the range... (why why why)
2.) Yes, that's why I am glad I CCW (why why why)
3.) It's what I am interested in (why why why)
ksnecktieman
Member
Maybe one of the biggest problems is that the sheep can not tell the difference between the teeth of the sheep dogs, and the teeth of the wolves?
The fact that the conversation happens is the important thing here, it shows that she has interest, but not knowledge. My bet is her first shooting experience was with big guns, and a macho type A personality nagging about every little thing she did wrong.
Get a 22 rifle with a scope, and maybe a 22 pistol, and take her to the range and let her see that guns do not hurt her, and it is fun to hit your target. Start with the 22 rifle at thirty feet, and DO NOT NAG, let her rest it on the bench, let her use bad form,,,, watch safety, and nothing else. encourage her. Do not go as part of a group. This needs to be a one on one episode, and you need to be patient. DO NOT say, I can do better, do not offer much of anything unless she asks. Let her go at her own pace, the purpose of this trip is not to teach her to shoot, it is only to show her that shooting can be fun.
Wait for the right opportunity, if there is a problem with her significant other, share this with him and let him do it, or get his ok for it.
Good luck
The fact that the conversation happens is the important thing here, it shows that she has interest, but not knowledge. My bet is her first shooting experience was with big guns, and a macho type A personality nagging about every little thing she did wrong.
Get a 22 rifle with a scope, and maybe a 22 pistol, and take her to the range and let her see that guns do not hurt her, and it is fun to hit your target. Start with the 22 rifle at thirty feet, and DO NOT NAG, let her rest it on the bench, let her use bad form,,,, watch safety, and nothing else. encourage her. Do not go as part of a group. This needs to be a one on one episode, and you need to be patient. DO NOT say, I can do better, do not offer much of anything unless she asks. Let her go at her own pace, the purpose of this trip is not to teach her to shoot, it is only to show her that shooting can be fun.
Wait for the right opportunity, if there is a problem with her significant other, share this with him and let him do it, or get his ok for it.
Good luck
I had a similar "discussion" with a female co-worker. She didn't think she could use a gun to defend herself,guns are for hurting people, etc...
I am not very articulate but I knew she was a reasonbable,bright person. I downloaded and printed the article "Bitches With Guns" and gave it to her. She is 26 years old, attractive, single, lives alone, and drives 30 miles to work at night. Hopefully, she will see that she needs to be responsible for her own security. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
I am not very articulate but I knew she was a reasonbable,bright person. I downloaded and printed the article "Bitches With Guns" and gave it to her. She is 26 years old, attractive, single, lives alone, and drives 30 miles to work at night. Hopefully, she will see that she needs to be responsible for her own security. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
gunsmith
member
discourage her from voting
I meet people like her all the time. Please give her a coupon for a spa on election day.
She won't come around untill the day she is raped or attacked and maimed or has to stand around and watch someone get killed,raped,maimed.
I've had unarmed family members get killed in robberies in NYC,they cooperated and died. The hijackers on 9/11 told people they would be ok if they don't fight back. The Nazi's said you'll be fine -go take a shower.
The serial killer Ted Bundy would tell girls they would be ok if they cooperate,then asked them before he killed them why would they believe someone who just raped and kidnapped them!
"Guns are made to kill" Yeah-so what! Some people need killing! Were the girls killed by Ted Bundy glad they didn't have one of those dangerous killing guns when he was tourturing and killing them?
There are people out there,the Charles Manson's the Bundys,the Dahmers and the run of the mill thugs that enjoy rape,brutality and killing
if you prefer denying yourself the best tool available to keep the body that God gave you alive, I say you're an idiot but thats your choice. If you deny me the tools to keep me and my family safe then your my enemy and I will fight you till I die.
I meet people like her all the time. Please give her a coupon for a spa on election day.
She won't come around untill the day she is raped or attacked and maimed or has to stand around and watch someone get killed,raped,maimed.
I've had unarmed family members get killed in robberies in NYC,they cooperated and died. The hijackers on 9/11 told people they would be ok if they don't fight back. The Nazi's said you'll be fine -go take a shower.
The serial killer Ted Bundy would tell girls they would be ok if they cooperate,then asked them before he killed them why would they believe someone who just raped and kidnapped them!
"Guns are made to kill" Yeah-so what! Some people need killing! Were the girls killed by Ted Bundy glad they didn't have one of those dangerous killing guns when he was tourturing and killing them?
There are people out there,the Charles Manson's the Bundys,the Dahmers and the run of the mill thugs that enjoy rape,brutality and killing
if you prefer denying yourself the best tool available to keep the body that God gave you alive, I say you're an idiot but thats your choice. If you deny me the tools to keep me and my family safe then your my enemy and I will fight you till I die.
Feanaro
Member
She seems to be incapable of using logic on this subject and she even appears to know it. But some points might give you some leverage.
My response to "Guns are for killing!!!11 OMG!" is always "Yep, you're right. And?" This usually causes a knew jerk emotional reaction, something like "But killing is wrong!" Some people cannot be persuaded otherwise but maybe she can.
My response to "Guns are for killing!!!11 OMG!" is always "Yep, you're right. And?" This usually causes a knew jerk emotional reaction, something like "But killing is wrong!" Some people cannot be persuaded otherwise but maybe she can.
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