its hopeless, she'll never understand.....

[Bobarino]

last night i talked with my semi-liberal girlfriend (who is a former card carrying member of Greenpeace) about self defense. she refused to admit that she is not in control of her surrounding at all times. she refused to admit that there are people that will do bad thing for no reason at all. she refused to admit that a firearm can give you an advantage in a life threatening situation. she swears up and down that she takes every precaution possible to avoid danger. she doesn't even keep the OC spray with her that i got for her. how do you convince someone who's just fine with being a victim? she is not the type that portrays herself as a victim at all, she's very confident and walks tall. well, as tall as a 5'2" lady can walk anyway. what to do, what to do? i worry about her. of course i want her to be safe and have some method of defense other than yelling. what should i do? she simply won't believe any of the reasoning i give her for self defense. she uses the argument that a gun will be taken away from her and used against her. there was no convincing her otherwise. she also said she could never kill another person no matter what they were trying to do to her. she couldn't "make the decision that someone else's life is less important than hers." i've been trying to convince her for 4 years now. is there any hope?

Bobby

 

[Valkman]

I hate to say it, but unless something bad happens to her or someone she knows, you probably won't convince her. I've met some like this who have this Utopian view that there aren't any really bad people out there, and all you can hope is they never run into one.

I'm lucky in that my wife has taken up shooting and bought her own Ruger MkII. She's only shooting at 3 yards, but I told her any gunfight she'll ever be in will be inside that range so don't worry about it. She plans to get a CCW at some point.

Good luck my man!

 

[Mikul]

After that long, she isn't likely to change her mind. She has too many other people in her life that reinforce her beliefs: obviously people who have never been the victim of violent crime.

If you plan to marry her and have children, think hard before going ahead with those plans. Anyone who isn't willing to fight and, if necessary kill to defend the lives of those children isn't worthy of being a mother. I'm not sure how I'd feel about calling her my girlfriend.

 

[Mauserlady]

she uses the argument that a gun will be taken away from her and used against her. there was no convincing her otherwise

I hate to say it but with that kind of mindset she may be right...

 

[hillbilly]

She sounds like the type who will not see reason at all until something very bad happens to herself or someone very close to her.

And that's what it took to bring noted author David Horowitz around.

But if she's that settled into her mindset, you cannot and will not ever change it.

You have to decide if that mindset is something you wish to live with for long term, and potentially have in the mother to your children.

Just like only she can decide her mindset, only you can decide how you think and feel about her having that mindset.

hillbilly

 

[Standing Wolf]

i've been trying to convince her for 4 years now. is there any hope?

Not much.

Much as alcoholics continue to drink and drink and drink, no matter how much self-defeat they inflict upon themselves, so do some people refuse and refuse and refuse to accept responsibility for themselves.

I've known several alcoholics over the years. The tales they tell are mind-boggling and harrowing—but they kept on drinking, and in one case, drinking and drugging both, until they were completely defeated.

People who refuse to accept reality as it is and/or refuse to accept responsibility for themselves can get away with it all their lives sometimes, although they have a nasty tendency to inflict leftist extremist representatives of the Democratic (sic) party on the nation.

Ultimately, I'd have to figure it's her life to do with as she pleases.

Personally, I don't get involved with people like that, nor do I go out twice with women who drink heavily, nor do I hang out with people who make it clear they can't take reality straight. I wasted years on friends and girl friends who kept doing the same stupid stuff and expecting different results. It took me a long time to realize letting irrational, irresponsible people waste my time and effort was irrational and irresponsible behavior on my part.

I hope she grows up in time.

 

[ARperson]

If you plan to marry her and have children, think hard before going ahead with those plans. Anyone who isn't willing to fight and, if necessary kill to defend the lives of those children isn't worthy of being a mother.

Most women wouldn't hesitate to kill or give their own life to protect their children. Whether this gal will be that way remains to be seen.

The more important picture from a "likely to happen" point of view is what she'll teach the children. There's a good chance she may never be forced to defend herself or her children. But there's no chance at all of her not passing on her "victimize me" beliefs.

Sooner or later you've got to wonder if this mentality is going to turn into a "no guns in my house" mandate. What then?

I agree, barring a close call or an actual crime committed against her, she's not going to change her mind. And even then, there may be no hope. Some people just don't believe in self-defense, no matter what form it takes.

 

[Bill Hook]

Time to move on. I wouldn't spend my time around someone whose midset is so totally alien and/or is so deceptive (both to themselves and others). You can always reconsider if she has an epiphany.

 

[bogie]

"Okay - I can see you not wanting to choose violence to defend yourself from violence. It's not easy to see, but I can sort of understand that. Now, what if someone was threatening to kill _me_... What would you do?"

 

[Darrin]

Bobby, hate to say it, but I'd move on. I was with someone of similar thoughts. Notice I said, "was."

Just take some time and think about it. You'll make the right choice.

 

[Waitone]

Hopefully reality will intrude on her carefully crafted world after which she will survive and live a long, productive and uninjured life.

But right now she destined to be daisy fertilizer.

Sad, very sad how delusional people can be.

 

[itgoesboom]

I hate to say it as well, but you are probably better off with someone who is a little more like-minded to you.

I used to tell girls that I dated that if we were to be in any long term relationship, that my one major requirement was that they take some sort of self-defense class. If the girl was unwilling to protect herself, than I was unwilling to be with her. Why should I care about someone who doesn't care about themselves.

My wife has never been real big on firearms, but she has been willing to learn how to use mine, and is willing to use one to protect herself. She also carries pepper spray everywhere she goes, and will probably get her CHL if we stay in Oregon.

It's never easy to hear other say to leave someone, especially after 4 years, you really just want to believe that they will come around and change. But they won't, unless something very traumatic happens, and by then it could be too late.

You have been with her for four years, and you don't want to throw away those four years. Would you prefer to throw away another 4 years and then realize she will never change?

I.G.B.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Bobarino, are you dating Cassandra?

My own wife is slowly coming to accept that there can be danger even in her world. (Which is funny, as she has been the “victim†of more crime than I have.) However, she is more interested in unarmed self-defense for now.

~G. Fink

 

[Bobarino]

All,

i appreciate the honest assesments. i guess i should clarify a few things. first, we're never having kids. we both don't like little ankle biters. neither of us ever want our own. she doesn't inflict anti-gun views on me. in fact she supports my shooting as a hobby and she says she feels safer when she's with me and i'm carrying. she even bought me the gun safe i wanted for my birthday and a gift certificate to a local range. we talked a long time ago about it. on our first few dates i brought it up. she says she doesn't like guns, but doesn't have a problem with responsible people owning them. her dad was an alcoholic that used guns VERY irresponsibly. he even shot himself in the butt on one occasion. so i spent the next year or two demonstrating to her that guns are fine, harmless and even a tool for defense in the hands of responsible people, through example. 4 rules, safe storage, etc.

the part that gets me is her naive view of the world. she didn't get my example of the fire extinguisher in the kitchen, the spare tire in the trunk, or carrying a cell phone. she think that she "shouldn't have to worry about things like that, people shouldn't try to hurt other people." well of course we SHOULDN"T have to, but we do, and to ignore that is well, ignorant.

(mushy mode: on) moving on is not an option, she's "the one". her and i get along famously. we seldom disagree. i love her more than anything. she puts up with me. we just "work". (mushy mode: off)

i don't try to convince her to carry a gun. i know she won't. she doesn't have the mindset to do so. so she shouldn't. i do try to convince her to at least let me teach her how to shoot, but she refuses. i keep politely offering to take her to the range, and she keeps declining, and i don't push it. i just say,"ok, the offer is open." she won't even let me show her how to unload and make safe a weapon. i talked her into handling a gun once. thats as far as i've gotten.

mind you, we weren't arguing or getting angry, just discussing like grow'd ups. but, i guess i know better than to try to argue emotion with logic. it just doesn't work.

keep 'em coming! i need more input.

Bobby

 

[Kobun]

à won't even date a girl that smokes...
I've tryed to convince a few girls that guns are not bad in themselves.
Some just refuse to listen no mather what.
After a while, I just leave it.
I wouldn't start anything serious with someone that can't look at guns in a reflected manner.

 

[Werewolf]

Okay...
I'm gonna jump in here and be the odd man out and not recommend that you dump her as everyone else has - either directly or indirectly.

There is truth to the old saying that opposites attract. On the issue of self defense you two are obviously opposites but that doesn't necessarily make you incompatible, bad partners or doom any potential marriage.

The key is that you both understand each other's positions and that you plan ahead how those positions will impact any marriage. Set the rules now.

1) Will she allow guns in the home?
2) How will she influence the children (this is kind'a like a Jew and a Christian marrying - which religion do the children get raised in). In other words who gets to define their philosophy in regards to self-defense.
3) Will the subject of self-defense be taboo or will y'all each be allowed to try to influence the other (believe me you need to set the taboo subjects now - if you don't you will probably have problems later).

If you two can sit down and agree on the answers to the above and stick to it there's no reason you shouldn't get hitched. On the other hand if you can't agree on all of them then IMHO you'll be heading down a rocky path if you stick together and get married.

I've been married to the same woman for 24 years - If we had discussed various issues prior to tying the knot some of our more heated disagreement (few though they be) could have been avoided.

 

[R127]

sounds like you know what you want.

 

[Unisaw]

My wife used to be anti-self defense. Her position was that she would go to hell if she killed someone, no matter what the situation. I finally won her over by confirming with her that she would NOT try to stop someone who was trying to kill our daughter. After thinking about that for a while, she conceded that she would do anything to stop that person. I then asked if she would be willing to defend herself rather than let our daughter grow up without a mother. At that point it started to click, although she still wasn't thrilled about my CCW. The most recent ray of hope was when she expressed concern that a coyote could attack our new puppy and commented that she would shoot to defend him! At that point, I offered to take her to the range to teach her some practical shooting skills. While she declined, I think she is starting to frame the issue properly.

 

[Bobarino]

Werewolf,

i agree with you. i don't want to turn her into a female version of me. i like her becuase she's her. if she was me, i'd have dumped her a long time ago. i couldn't put up with myself for that long. i don't know how she does it.

we're opposite in some ways, but truly soul mates in the more important ways that really count.

differing views on firearms and self defense is, in my book, no reason to terminate a wonderful relationship. as wrong as i think her views are, i respect her right to have them. i'll still keep trying to change her mind though.

there's pretty much nothing that is taboo between us. we can discuss most anything like grow'd ups. most of the time anyway.

i might be able to get her to read a book on the subject. any recommendations?

Bobby

edit: PS, just want to reitterate that will be no kids. mariage is almost a certainty. but we're not in a rush. (obviously). we just bought out first house together this summer. so far its been great. as has been the last 4 years. i'm very optimistic about the next 4 and every 4 after that.

 

[Balog]

You could see if she'd like to volunteer at a rape counseling center. Seeing the mindless horror that mankind inflicts on itself might help wake her up. And even if she still won't defend herself, she'd have helped others.

 

[Travis McGee]

I would give her two books, and ask her to read them with an open mind, and offer to read two of her books in return to make it fair.

1. Paxton Quigly's 'Armed and Female' and
2 My own book 'Enemies Foreign and Domestic' which is very armed female-oriented in it's theme.

 

[Darrin]

After hearing more about it, tough call. Real tough call. Given your updated info, I'm more on the side of staying with her now.

Eventually, something will scare the hell out of her and she'll come around. Until then I guess it's just a day at a time for ya.

Good luck!

 

[Bobarino]

Darrin,

i should have put all that in the original post. upon rereading it, it paints her in a "mean girlfriend" light. thats not the case.

''Eventually, something will scare the hell out of her and she'll come around. ''

thats pretty much the conclusion that i've come to also. but like anyone that loves someone else, i'd like to protect her from that ever happening in the first place for fear that the "something" may really hurt her or worse. i just wish i could get her to take steps to be more prepared for the "something", BEFORE it happens.

Bobby

 

[spacemanspiff]

bobarino, it sounds like you are willing to risk life and limb for not just your safety but that of your girlfriend. correct?

it doesnt sound like your girlfriend is willing to do the same for you.


thats a harsh reality, and its up to you whether or not you will spend the rest of your life with "the one that would let you die and let herself be raped rather than take control of her destiny as well as yours".



as a side question, and not to hijack a thread too much, but how does your girlfriend compare to your mother? does your mother hold the same type of pacifist ideaology?

note = i am not trying to insult bobarino, his girlfriend, and especially not his mother...i am merely testing out the freudian theories that people are attracted to qualities shared by that persons parent.

 

[Darrin]

i just wish i could get her to take steps to be more prepared for the "something", BEFORE it happens.

Couldn't agree more. No one wants to see something bad happen to someone good. That's why I wish you good luck.

Ok, seriously though, gun stuff aside, is she cute?