its hopeless, she'll never understand.....

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lots of good advice. i appreciate it. honestly.

A45acp1911,

if you mean that i've made up my mind that i'm not going to dump her, you're right. while we may disagree on this topic, it doesn't overshadow the whole relationship, which is quite wonderful. there is more to her than her views on self defense. while i appreciate all input, i guess i do dismiss the advice to get rid of her. it just ain't gonna happen. sometimes, i do see her as a liability in a bad situation. and i do think its a bit selfish too. i'm not sure how to deal with that. the goal is to open her eyes and help her see that there is a real need for self defense. i'm looking for effective ways to do that. i'm not looking for keep her/dump her advice.

just to reitterate again, there will be no kids. i know lots of people say otherwise, but ya'll have to trust me on this one. i'm not denying the possibility, but the its on the order of 99.44% percent sure that will be no kids. :)

KillerofGiants,

i like your insights. she does indeed have some issues from her past that i'm sure are playing a major role in her attitude today. perhaps we need to deal with past first? then we can work on her current mindset. thats what i need help dealing with. how do you help someone recognize the real possibility of others doing them harm, and how do i help her be better prepared for it?

remember she's not an anti, she even encourages my shooting hobbies and carrying a gun. but she still doesn't see the need for herself. how do i help her see? is there a way to change her mindset from pacifist to activist when it comes to her own protection? i saw a few stories here that it ws done, but HOW was it done?

once again, i appreciate all the input. its great to get ouside perspectives.

Bobby
 
Girlfriend?

A friend is a friend. If you are thinking of marrying her, then you might really want to think this out.
I just recently transfered to my old division...been away for five years and now they have a bunch of ladies. Some of these young ladies have had to do community outreach and about a year ago, two of them were surrounded by gang members and were told that the only way they were going to be let go was that they had to sexually do every guy there.
Both of them had enough smarts to act retarded and were then let go.
There have been several other incidences and one young lady has gone out on stress.
This other girl told me about some of the situations and I mentioned that this is why us old timers fought for CCWs while on duty.
You folks know when a person has turned off listening to you right?
When I said gun, she kept changing subjects and not looking at me directly. She is going to get married to a police officer in May. He has told me that she believes she can run out of any deadly incident.
Outrun a bullet?
She's already asked him to not bring the gun home and to leave it at the station....the pd allows him to carry off duty.
I think he's in for a hard time.
As a friend you can just accept her for what she is...don't fret. She will be what she wants to be til she sees the light.
 
Buddy, if you are 99.44% sure you aint having kids, guess what.

You gonna be a daddy someday. :neener: :evil:

Lots of people don't want kids in their 20s - we want to live and have fun.

As for us - we were 99.99% sure. :)

I like my time to go shoot and play computer games and persue other interests. Kids totally cramp your style.

Right now, you are young, just starting out - all you can see is now and just down the road.

A few turns and horizons later, the view is very different and what you think you want can often change.

Sometimes it does not - I have a friend who never had kids - but of all the ones who said "no way", sll but him are parents now - and they all say they are extremely happy they changed their minds.

Not saying you will change your mind, just saying I dont think you can know that you will not change it...
 
Bobarino, yes, I think you/she need to deal with her past issues. If not, they will rear their ugly head someday and probably at the most inopportune time. Leaving the self-defense stuff out of it, it will enter into your relationship more with other issues. Like I said, first it will be "why are we buying a fire extinguisher" to other things like, "why don't you do everything for me?". She encourages you to do the shooting hobbies and carry, that's good. Perhaps she thinks that you will be able to take care of her in all situations. I'm sure you and I would like to think that but there's no guarantee.

Someone mentioned having her work in a rape crisis center or something like that. Not a bad idea. Maybe taking her to some martial arts classes to show her how defenseless she really is or how defenseless you could be may act as an eye opener. All she needs is a good throw/tackle to the ground and a hand around her neck and then ask, "okay, defend yourself". Or, worse, come up behind and put a knife to her throat and say, "okay, defend yourself".

People like to be in control. She maintains control because she's not being tested on her control. If she says, "nothing bad will happen to me" she's in control. She really isn't but in her mind she is. If she considers taking martial arts classes, carrying/shooting a gun, she's acknowledging that something bad can happen to her and that the world is bad and that she indeed does not have complete control of everything.

She may or may not be swayed from her current stance, just know that and accept it if you desire. Even victims of violent crimes sometimes don't accept that they were a victim. They make excuses for why things happened. Just look at domestic abuse. The victims always say, "it was my fault that my significant other beat me". You may want to consider some counseling but often that's met with resistance as that shows signs of something is wrong and people don't like that. But, something is "wrong". I wish you luck, wish I could be of more help.
 
KOG,

i think you're on to something. while i wouldn't surprise her with a tackle or a knife to the throat, finding a way to get her to see that she's not in control is a good first step. finding a way to do that but not scare her too much will be a challenge though. i don't want to make her paranoid, just aware. once she becomes aware, then i can work on ways to help her deal with the realities of self defense.

dang, this is going to be tougher than i thought.

Bobby
 
5'2" lady here -- pray she gets into martial arts like I did -- and hope to Christ she falls in love with Hong Kong films and develops a passion for all things Beretta. God willing, something other than a violent act will get her to see the light.
 
i think you're on to something. while i wouldn't surprise her with a tackle or a knife to the throat, finding a way to get her to see that she's not in control is a good first step. finding a way to do that but not scare her too much will be a challenge though. i don't want to make her paranoid, just aware. once she becomes aware, then i can work on ways to help her deal with the realities of self defense.
Click to expand...


If you love her & want to protect her....


!!SCARE THE BEJEEZUS OUT OF HER!!!

She won't truly take it to heart any other way. This is a lesson that has to stick.
 
Bobarino.

Don't listen to most of these guys. You're getting ready to make a mistake. A very, very big mistake.

remember she's not an anti, she even encourages my shooting hobbies and carrying a gun. but she still doesn't see the need for herself. how do i help her see? is there a way to change her mindset from pacifist to activist when it comes to her own protection? i saw a few stories here that it ws done, but HOW was it done?
Click to expand...
There's nothing you can do about it.

Let me repeat that, for emphasis: there's nothing you can do about it. Her mind is her own, and she'll change it (or not) for reasons of her own.

If right now, early in your relationship, you are planning to "change" her, and won't be 100%, absolutely happy with her until she does change .... walk away, now. It'll save you both a lot of grief.

If you love her, grant her the dignity to be herself and to have her own thoughts and feelings and opinions -- even if you think those opinions are utterly wrong.

If she has the grace to leave you alone to be who you are, you should have the grace to leave her alone to be who she is.

Don't go into marriage or into a long term relationship thinking you'll "fix" her or "change" her. Take her like she is, for better or worse -- or don't take her at all.

pax

It has been said that a bride's attitude towards her betrothed can be summed up in three words: Aisle. Altar. Hymn. -- Frank Muir
 
Pax,

thats probably the best advice i've gotten yet. i tend to agree with you. i'm certainly not going to dump her over her views. i love the little lady. while i'd love to see her change her point of view on things, if it came down to me giving up on this issue and keeping her, or not giving up and letting it spoil things, i'd choose to give up on this issue and keep her. cuz, well, she's a keeper. i'm not ready to give up just yet though. i'll still try to persuade her (gently). if she still says no after all my efforts, then it will be left alone.

say, you're in WA aren't ya? if i can talk her into a range session would you consider some instruction? i have a feeling she'd be more open to a woman than a man.

Bobby
 
Why not tell her that you're going to get a vasectomy. My guess is that the response will be educational.
 
Pax is right.

You cannot change people and really, anythig that is kid of bad now will probably get "worse" after marriage.

Not everything, but we tend to have our guard up when dating and once the deal is closed, then we let it down, often to the :what: of the other party.

Ask yourself how it will be if she not only does not go your way, but moves further in the other direction...

Marry her for who she ism not who she may become.
 
JohnKsa,

actually, we've already talked about that. the only reason i haven't done it yet is i can't the time off work to rest up afterwards. as soon as i get a vacation, i'll probably get snipped and my wisdom teeth pulled. i jsut need the time. y'know, probably 95% of the people we talk to about kids tell us we will have kids. its actually rather annoying sometimes. we don't want kdis. period. we're not going to have them. we have plenty of neices and nephews between us if we want to hang around kids. but we will not have our own. period.

Pedragon,

you're absolutely right. i cannot change her. i've come to realize, with the help of all the advice given here, that i'd rather keep her for who she is than try to change her and lose her.

i came really close to having a breakthrough last night though. out at dinner with her friends from work, one of them mentioned she wanted to learn how to shoot. she's a wingle mom with kids in the house, and no method of defense. i offered to teach her how to shoot and store a guns properly and she said she would do it if my girlfriend went too. she seemed pretty excited about the whole deal. the GF didn't say no! she said she'd go, but just for her friend. (suuuuuure, just for her friend) maybe she's coming around, who knows? stranger things have happened. anyway, i've been wanting a .22 pistol for a while now, this is a great excuse to buy one, so i can use it to teach some new people how to shoot. we'll see if they actually do go to range with me. i warned her that they'd have to let me give them safety lessons at home first.

i'm thinking of the Taurus model 94, 9 shot .22 revolver. i figured that would be the perfect starter pistol. or perhaps a Walther P22? i've been wanting one of those too.

keep your fingers crossed, she might be coming around!

Bobby
 
For what it's worth

Been married for 17 years now. Like Dairycreek, my wife's a nurse. She started out as pretty much anti-gun. Grew up in a non-gun household, even though her dad was active duty Air Force. First four years we were married, I was on active duty in the Army and made the big mistake of not taking my guns to Germany ( I thought it would be too much of a hassle to get them over and back.) Anyway, I get out, and we come back to the states. She was "okay" with the idea of guns in the house, because we didn't have kids and they were in the back corner of my closet in the den so they were "out of sight, out of mind", and they only came out for hunting season and American Legion Turkey shoots. As long as she didn't have to see or touch them, they did exist as far as she was concerned. Never even talked about them for any reason. They left in a case and came back in case. Sometimes a deer (already butchered), a turkey or some pheasants came home and as long as all she had do was pull the meat out of the fridge or freeser and put in the oven, it was okay. She didn't want to see blood, fur or feathers.

Then she got pregnant and the issue came to the forefront. Lots of "discussions" about my "hobby" and the "safety of the children". Before my daughter was born, I went and bought a gun safe. End of Discussions. She doesn't have to touch 'em or see them. They are "out of sight, out of mind, in a safe where the kids can't get them". We go back to status quo ante-kinder.

Fast forward 4 years.

VERY-ANTI neighbor won't bring her daughter over to play with our daughter because "you have guns in your house". Yeah, well you have a steak knives, forks, scissors, a bathtub and cleaning chemicals in yours and those are a lot more dangerous to kids then the guns stored in my safe. She has since moved to another part of town and good riddance. She was (and still is from what I hear) a general PITA. I like to think that I was a motivating force in their decision to move.

Fast forward 3 more years.

I'm in the shower getting ready to go to work one morning, when my wife comes into the bathroom (which is very unusual as I get up at 0400 and am gone by 0445, she sleeps until about 0600-0630 so she has some time to herself before she gets the kids up to go to school at 0800).

Me: "Mmmmnnnng" (I was brushing my teeth while trying to say "morning").

Her: "What's the combination to the gun safe ?"

Me: "What, why ?" (Okay, I admit, the collection had grown over the years. She didn't have the combo. It was kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation.)

Her: "Yesterday afternoon on the north side of town an 8 year old girl on her way home from school was knocked off her bike and the guy tried to sexaully assualt her. If someone tries that on or daughter, I want to be able to protect her."

Me: "Whoaaaaaa"


Both my wife and my daughter have gone through a couple of NRA courses taught at my club. I've found that it works out best when someone else does the teaching.

It's still not her hobby, but she's got her own shotgun that she know shares with our daughter, and when the weathers nice we go to the range on the weekend as a family and we all shoot a little .22 rifle I bought just for this purpose. My wife has out shot me on occasion.

Tomorrow I'm taking my daughter to the hunter education course so that we can go on her first turkey hunt this spring.

Be patient, it can happen.
 
Knew a girl like the one you describe. A short skinny waiflike thing, living in a town where girls like her were being stalked and murdered (Gainesville Florida, 1989). She was actually being stalked and had had her apartment broken into by the stalker. I suggested a gun and some training. No go. Then I suggested a big dog. No, she said, her CATS! would warn her if someone was there!! This was a girl who had already had her phone lines cut once.

Some people are just hopeless. I hope your girlfriend isn't one of those. I suggest cutting out every rape and murder and attack in the local paper and leaving them out for her to see. Maybe she will get the message.
 
once again, i appreciate everyone's input. thank you.

this weekend, she again stated that whe would go with me to learn how to shoot safely, she just didn't set a time table. thats fine, i'll take her when she's ready. hopefully sooner than later. i told her of my plans to buy a .22 revolver for her to learn to shoot with. she seemed pretty excited at the prospect of me buying her her own gun. when i told her how a .22 shoots (quiet, little recoil ,etc) she smiled and said it didn't sound too bad. sounds to me like the green light to go shopping for that Taurus 94. i'll let you all know when i get her to the range. hopefully it will be soon.

Bobby
 
Could "hire" a few of your friends to "acost" her some evening on the way from the car to the house and you could "save" her with one of your "bad" guns "scaring" off the "bad guys.";)

Granted if someone else stumbled along on as this was going down you might end up with a few dead friends or a cellmate what: not to mention the fallout if she found out what was going on but sometimes extreme measures need to be taken:
 
Bobarino,

I'd send you a PM but I see you have those turned off.

Check out this link: www.firearmsacademy.com

FAS is within driving distance if you are in W. Washington, and they offer free handgun safety training for new shooters. (See the course description at http://www.firearmsacademy.com/free.htm , or just follow the link from the front page).

I help instruct the freebie classes and some of the lower-level classes, as a volunteer who is working on getting an instructor credential.

pax
 
Bobarino,

Even though I have been shooting handguns for almost 25 years, I took the free handgun safety class @ FAS last year. It would be an excellent value even if they charged for it. My class was taught by Gila Hayes, who described some of the offerings they have specifically for women. You should check it out -- I would love to get my wife down to FAS.
 
i've been shooting for about 10 years, and its probably time i take a refresher course on firearms safety too. its been a while. hopefully we can make a day out of it together. thanks for the recommendations.

Bobby
 
some good ideas

I just got out of a relationship where the girl was "gun shy" The best advice I got was that everything you have in the relati9onship now will be magnified 10X when you are married. If she is showing signs of enjoying shooting, then mabey she will turn around. I am now with a girl who is not only a friend, but does suppressive and recovering fire drills with me. I am much happier. It all depends on how much of your life is devoted to shooting. I can be real tiring being married to/dating a victim.
 
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