How do you handle this situation...

[FNX-9]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/27634358/detail.html

Last weekend as the story says a group of 30 kids between 15-20 boarded a MARTA train in Atlanta. For those that dont know MARTA is the Atlanta subway. They obviously intimidated passengers and assaulted two of them. The reason i ask is because i actually rode MARTA for the first time the day before (i was not carrying at the time).

What do you do if this situation happens, 30 people board a train and start assaulting people. if they come at you and you engage with your firearm, it is a possibility that one of the other 30 people may have a firearm also. What do you do. I have really been thinking about this a lot and i still have no idea what the right move would be other than not being on that train to begin with.

 

[Sam1911]

What do you do if this situation happens, 30 people board a train and start assaulting people.

Well, at first you said "intimidated" and assaulted. There is a difference, of course. I might be very intimidated, or look very intimidated, but not have a need to yet draw a weapon. Observe: what are they really doing? Moving through the crowd demanding wallets and assaulting those that resist? I'd very meekly give over my wallet and see if they don't pass right on to the next victim. Are they actually harming folks at random? Does it appear they're going to kill me (or maybe someone else)? One answer doesn't fit all. Observe, think, evaluate, repeat.

If there is room to maneuver and/or leave, obviously that's the best answer. (NOT having to kill anyone is the/a victory here. Shooting someone in self-defense still is a thing to be avoided at almost all costs.)

Also, be mindful of the setting. MARTA is going to stop again in a minute or two. The gang cannot control the situation beyond the next platform, so their time is limited. What do they have time to do and can you wait them out?

If your life is directly threatened, you'd have little choice but to draw and fire -- though you'd have to choose your moment and your actions wisely to be both effective, quick, and justifiable.

One of the minor lessons from Tom Givens' "Lessons from the Street" video (under discussion here at the moment) was that you don't necessarily have to shoot each member of an aggressive group for your shots to have an effect on all of them. Being forced to shoot a member of such a group would almost certainly change the group's focus and actions. Maybe for the better, maybe not -- though few are going to want to volunteer to take the next bullet.

 

[beeenbag]

Well I would avoid shooting to my utmost. Even if you are forced to defend your self with deadly force, you have to worry about all the other passengers on there with you. Even if you eliminate all the thugs and wound an innocent bystander in the mix, you have lost. It is a bad situation all together. Just think of what your high school sex-ed teacher said "abstinence is the only safe way".

 

[ErikO]

Here in St Louis I'd be unarmed as there are signs that state clearly that fireams and other weapons are forbidden on the Metro rail and bus system. It sucks, but I have to consider that carrying at that point constitutes felony possession which is worse.

I guess I could volunteer to be a tranist cop.

 

[gunnysmith]

The leaders are the loudest, and easily recognized.
Bullies are cowards.
Distance is your friend
3 Rules of Chuck, to rely on

 

[Shadow 7D]

Um, sadly in this situation, as long as there isn't gross violence and imminent threat of death (and the other provisions required by local and state law)

In a crowded place, many people milling, under security cam, best bet is to call the cops, hand over cash, maintain your weapon and find a defensible place.

Or if you can, just keep moving a car ahead or barricade a door etc.

Last thing is to draw and start shooting, you'll make a panic, half will be running away, the other half will be running at you (other exit, and those who will try to kill you) AND you will spend quite some time sitting in jail, maybe in the same holding tank as the guys who buddy you just shot, the cops will think you were part of them unless alot of people come forward (do you really think they will say good things about you?) and say 'No, he was defending himself and all of us"....

 

[Shadow 7D]

OK, Tactical Gurus, thinking of what I would do
If you had the warning and moved to another car, and the gang was massed in a single group, would barricading the door, and pulling your firearm to brandish it, to keep them from trying door between cars(easier to pick clean the car they are in or move the other direction) and it would be mostly you and 'them' without most people seeing you brandish.

is this workable,
I add that I would be yelling for help and telling them what is happening in the other car, and yelling for them to please call the cops, help me hold the door etc.

 

[FNX-9]

I agree with what most of you have written, actually i agree with all of it. I dont think that there is one best way to handle the situation because you are on a crowded train. The link that i posted was a follwo up to the original story. Some people on the train were assaulted and robbed, not sure if it said that in the second link. I agree that pulling a firearm on a crowded train ould not end well in any situation. I would gladly take a punch in the face then pull my firearm and potentially get into a gun fight. I am a hockey player so that would be nothing new, and i am guessing that i would be substantially bugger tahn most of the kids in that group, not fat just bigger.

 

[Cop Bob]

Just explain it to them...... ccommunication is the key...

Maybe a subtle slip of the jacket back to slightly expose the weapon while looking loudmouth in the eye.. as you establish a grip, state... "I don't think so..."

It is true, they are all cowards... none of them want the 1st bullet... my bet is that they leave.... Quick

I certainly would not want this to turn into a shooting... to much liability with the weapons ban signs and all... but if you must carry anyway, i would REALLY try to find a way to scare them into playing nice... It's all in the way you explain it to them.......

 

[Lord Teapot]

in florida: i'd probably be forced to stand my ground, the courts can sort it out later. in another state, not sure, would have to read the laws. i usually carry mace, so i have a 3 tier response always going on in my head: respond to words with words, to actions with mace, to life threatening actions with a hail of jacketed lead.

 

[Ole Coot]

During the riots in '68 I was working nights on 14th St., NW in DC. I didn't have a firearm, just ignored the shouts and looting while waiting for one of the few buses still running. Until I was pointed out by a group of six or so I waited until I was approached and hurt the "fearless" leader. I worked in that town at night for 16yrs and found awareness and attack for defense works if you have no choice. It isn't expected and there were easier targets so why bother with one nasty ole Redneck. I just wasn't taught to run or give up unless I had zero chance and could get away in one piece.