From Post #1
They say, "I'm going to hurt you," and then you do what the police would do, try to diffuse the situation verbally and if that doesn't work pull out your pepper spray, give a warning that you'll use it, if that doesn't work then spray.
Again, local jurisdictions and how that jurisdiction [ Judge / DA] actually
define may differ from one locale to another.
I mean even here on THR we use the abbreviaton "CCW" in a loose manner.
Some states have
Concealed Carry Weapons license / permits and within that jurisdiction is specified what is and is not considered a weapon. "Knives" have definitions and here is does not mean "dagger" or "dirk"...
Some areas it is CHL -
Concealed Handgun License....what does these allow in YOUR Area?
Some areas may not allow Various Sprays, be they Mace, Pepper, and these definitions vary [ percentage of agent, container size...] and some places may not even Spray ( OC or Mace) in that bldg, or on that campus (school or corporate.
Hence the reason to actually nail down the specifics, AND get a flavor for the judicial system. The Statue may "say" but get a judge that feels "submitting" or "call 911 and let the police handle" is all a citizen is "supposed to do and you are not going to be in very favorable light, even with the Statues written and they are.
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So a guy comes up and however I miss him - I totally blew the awareness bit. I mean I am snookered.
Maybe I get to spray him, Now I have a can of Mace with a dye in it, under UV it shows up. and then I miss BG #2, he makes himself known with a gun barrel to my head.
They get the wallet, the vehicle. My main goal is to get home with all my body parts and they still working. Next goal is NOT having Problem 2.
I call Officer Dawg, he and Officer White Show up...
" I was in fear of my life, and I do not feel very good...I will help best can, understand I have been thru a ordeal"
I share with officers my vehicle descripton, where I live as the BGs have MY house keys, and MY address when they look in my wallet, also in the vehicle for Registration and License...
"Oh crap officer, I have a house guest and am in fear of them being invaded!"
Officers allow me to call home and tell / introduce them to Officers, Officers are coming by to make sure they are safe and The Password to know the Plainclothes Lady is in fact a LEO officer, ( lady guest) or Male UC if a male member is staying the night---
officers bring another lock with keys for the door---
Or Arrangements are made for locks and gets to be changed
right that minute...
Or Officers we run them down at work...
In all this 'in fear of' and now "in fear of for another" , or "fear of getting my home robbed".
"Officers, you asked if anything else, I am sorry, my mind in fuzzy, I did get a shot of Mace with dye in it off before the 2nd gun put a gun to my head".
Bingo!
Probable cause, perhaps vehicle matching the make and model of mine , is speeding...
Probable cause of someone trying to use a key to enter a house next door to where I live [robbers mis read address]
Whatever and you know what ? Them UV lights for TB will show dye on a person. Granted the Officers are aware of what Mace smells like...still many jails have TB lights just as they do at the grocery store.
My house and guest are safe. Officer's call me and either they come get me, or bring by a set of Polarids...
"Officer, this is him, I never saw the 2nd guy".
Now to ME - that is a "Citizen's Arrest".
I made it home with body parts and they all work.
Problem 2 is not really Problem 2 as I am documented and did the best I could with assisting, under cirumstances. I may have to view a line up, be blindfolded only to hear folks in a line up speak the words BG#2 said to me. Still it is documented on my behalf as being the Good Guy and victim.
Evidence? Well there is my stuff they found on them, my vehicle with prints, and that dye on one....
...or if you want to play the TeeVee CSI Syndrome, the shirt in my vehicle is NOT my shirt after checking sweat...
The dye matches the dye 1) I got on my clothes spraying them , 2) my sweat from my shirt is not the same as his sweat.
The DA's office is on MY side...less of any Problem 2 worries.
Goes to jury...I have been on a LOT of jury cases, and have been foreman, and have been a witness.
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt
What a Prudent Person would do
Burden Of Proof
These and other "legal terms" get Defined a LOT in a courtroom...they even have these on 8.5 x 11 pcs of paper for the jury to make sure they understand these and any other terms, definitions of crimes, sentencing...Heck we had frigging notebook on a couple cases I was on ...Felt like a law student looking up stuff...and still had baliff go ask the judge "define more clear for juror #3 please".
"Mr. Steve what did you do then".
" I threw up and had to pee behind the bushes sir, I was scared to death!"
Judge, Jury , gallery...what do they see and hear? - Oh and you better well believe the "language' they are reading / paying most attention to is ...NON- Verbal. Not what I say...anyone says. It is not what is said , how said, -instead body language.
Now was I trying to be a hot shot wannabe cop?
Or a victim of a crime trying to stay alive best can?
"Officer's how did the victim appear when you arrived?"
"Your honor, the victim was obviously shaken, upset, emotional, both mad and shaking with fear, Officer Dawg and I were afraid he was going to go into shock. Throwing up help, and letting him relieve himself behind that building...well sir, he is human and deserves some self respect by not peeing on himself...
...he did the best he could, he wanted his lawyer, any lawyer, still he assisted best could, in fact surprisingly well once he had a smoke and we got him a coke from the soda machine at the store down the way...he was really afraid for his house guest...and getting his home robbed...".