How good is the QC on the recievers of the new Springfield Armory, Inc. Recievers? Since they are made by Lithgow in Australia (and I have heard some really bad things about Lithgow's QC) are they any good? If not, I want to know whether I should purchase my Garand from Orion 7 Enterprises or The Garand Guy?
How good are the new Springfield Garands?
- Thread starter Avenger29
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IMO, by far the best place to buy an M1 rifle is through the CMP. But, that wasn't one of your choices.
I own a "new" Springfield M1 rifle. I really have no way of knowing how good the quality control was or any of that. All I can tell you is that mine runs fine and shoots well. I have never had a problem with it in looks or function. I got mine brand new in the box for $700 in a private party sale. I don't know what they are going for at the retail level but I know the MSRP is over a grand. If I had it to do over again, I would not buy another one for $700. It looks good but the M1s I bought from CMP seem to shoot fine and cost less than that. I don't even desire an M1 that appears to be new (although I have one).
I bought a service grade M1 from the CMP that is well worn. Metal is shiny. Wood is dinged. I shot a match with it a couple weeks ago from 200 - 800 yards and out of a field of 44 other shooters, I took first. Looks don't mean much. I shot my "new" Springfield in this same match last year and went 5 out of 5 at 700 yards using Korean ammo. So, it will shoot.
I own a "new" Springfield M1 rifle. I really have no way of knowing how good the quality control was or any of that. All I can tell you is that mine runs fine and shoots well. I have never had a problem with it in looks or function. I got mine brand new in the box for $700 in a private party sale. I don't know what they are going for at the retail level but I know the MSRP is over a grand. If I had it to do over again, I would not buy another one for $700. It looks good but the M1s I bought from CMP seem to shoot fine and cost less than that. I don't even desire an M1 that appears to be new (although I have one).
I bought a service grade M1 from the CMP that is well worn. Metal is shiny. Wood is dinged. I shot a match with it a couple weeks ago from 200 - 800 yards and out of a field of 44 other shooters, I took first. Looks don't mean much. I shot my "new" Springfield in this same match last year and went 5 out of 5 at 700 yards using Korean ammo. So, it will shoot.
Fulton Armory did a writeup on the cast recievers some time back--it may still be on their website. They were not impressed.
I have an SA M1A with their proprietary cast reciever that I shoot a lot and it has been fine. However I shot an M14 prior to that and I will take the forged reciever every time.
The CMP Garands are my preference. Forged reciever, all GI parts, good price for what they are. The rifle you get might be good for quite a while basically as is. If not, learn how to upgrade it and have fun in the process. Alternatively, ship it off to a good Garand-smith and get it rehabilitated.
A Garand in 7.62 is supposed to be the way to go. I may pick up a Greek and build one up to find out.
I have an SA M1A with their proprietary cast reciever that I shoot a lot and it has been fine. However I shot an M14 prior to that and I will take the forged reciever every time.
The CMP Garands are my preference. Forged reciever, all GI parts, good price for what they are. The rifle you get might be good for quite a while basically as is. If not, learn how to upgrade it and have fun in the process. Alternatively, ship it off to a good Garand-smith and get it rehabilitated.
A Garand in 7.62 is supposed to be the way to go. I may pick up a Greek and build one up to find out.
jefnvk
Member
Yep, I just don't see the market for the new Springfields while CMP is still putting out decent guns. The only new ones I see on dealers shelves go for over $1000. I can get two Service grades, or two field grades and a rack for that.
I think that buying a Dane less wood from CMP for $265, and sending it to dgrguns.com for a complete rebuild for $750-850 (depending on the fanciness of the stock) would be a better $1000 investment than a new Springfield, but that is just me.
As for quality, I can't comment, I have never used them.
EDIT: Gallery of Guns lists MSRP as $1348. I'd definitely get a Collector's CMP gun for $1400 before that, the CMP gun won't lose value the second you walk out of the store with it.
I think that buying a Dane less wood from CMP for $265, and sending it to dgrguns.com for a complete rebuild for $750-850 (depending on the fanciness of the stock) would be a better $1000 investment than a new Springfield, but that is just me.
As for quality, I can't comment, I have never used them.
EDIT: Gallery of Guns lists MSRP as $1348. I'd definitely get a Collector's CMP gun for $1400 before that, the CMP gun won't lose value the second you walk out of the store with it.
Had one. Looked great. Shot great. 100% reliable. I did discover that if you don't buy a CMP, many Garandaholics will think ill of you. I got a new Springfield for a couple of reasons. I don't like buying things, particularly used things, sight unseen. Second reason is that used Garands at gunshows in my neck of the woods frequently sell for way too much money for the condition they're in. Just never found an original that I wanted. I wanted a nice Garand to shoot, not a gun to learn Garand gunsmithing on. Your option of buying a rebuilt Garand from one of the better known Garand outfits sounds good to me also.
cracked butt
Member
No, we just see you as being on a lower plane of Garand-Nirvana, and would like to extend a hand to help you reach complete fulfillment
Bwana John
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I have a friend that has one of the new SA Garands with the Lithgow reciever. I have shot and dissembled it and I was not impressed. My friend is very happy with it however.
ReadyontheRight
Member
I vote for Tony Giacobbe - The Garand Guy. I have read bad things about the "new" Garands. Tony will sell you a refurbished Garand built on a "real" receiver. He has friends who buy their allotment from CMP to piece together period-correct parts and they sell him the spare parts to build into rifles for upgrade and re-sale.
The Garand you get WILL need to be "broken in" since he re-parkerizes all the parts. I bought one from him last year and I ended up replacing the trigger with a used one to get it down below 5lbs. If you know what you're doing with the trigger (I don't), you could easily polish up the trigger and other surfaces to make the action slicker.
Or you could save $$ and get one from www.odcmp.com.
The Garand you get WILL need to be "broken in" since he re-parkerizes all the parts. I bought one from him last year and I ended up replacing the trigger with a used one to get it down below 5lbs. If you know what you're doing with the trigger (I don't), you could easily polish up the trigger and other surfaces to make the action slicker.
Or you could save $$ and get one from www.odcmp.com.
countertop
Member
I saw one of the Springfields last week at Classic Pawn in Chicamauga, Georgia going for $1300+ NIB.
Classic Pawn isn't really a Pawn Shop in the traditional sense - they have one next door - but they mostly sell lots of surplus and Natchezss priced Ammo and surplus rifles (all laid out on tables gun show style in their warehouse like "showroom." They have handguns in a case.
Classic Pawn isn't really a Pawn Shop in the traditional sense - they have one next door - but they mostly sell lots of surplus and Natchezss priced Ammo and surplus rifles (all laid out on tables gun show style in their warehouse like "showroom." They have handguns in a case.
I've had my SA Garand (7.62X51 - gasp - oh no!) for well over a year now.
Despite all the dire predictions from the old Garand fanatic at the range I go to and all the gasps of shock from the Garandaholics on the internet YOU KNOW WHAT!? It works just fine. Shoots 1 to 2 MOA if I try real hard, has never even hiccuped once after a 1000 rounds, looks new, feels new and was worth every penny I payed for it.
Wanna pay $500 bucks for a piece of HISTORY that might just be shot out, beat up, and is for sure a don't know what you're gonna get rifle? Great - more power to ya. This is America after all - the land of the partially free. And folks are free to buy what ever they want (as long as Uncle Sammy says it's OK of course).
Despite all the dire predictions from the old Garand fanatic at the range I go to and all the gasps of shock from the Garandaholics on the internet YOU KNOW WHAT!? It works just fine. Shoots 1 to 2 MOA if I try real hard, has never even hiccuped once after a 1000 rounds, looks new, feels new and was worth every penny I payed for it.
Wanna pay $500 bucks for a piece of HISTORY that might just be shot out, beat up, and is for sure a don't know what you're gonna get rifle? Great - more power to ya. This is America after all - the land of the partially free. And folks are free to buy what ever they want (as long as Uncle Sammy says it's OK of course).
jefnvk
Member
Don't doubt it at all, I would expect a new gun would look new, feel new, and shoot around 1 MOA.
But, quite often, people buying these are buying it partly as a historical piece. In that case, it doesn't make sense to buy a new one when the real one costs half the price. And buying a service grade, you aren't goping to get a junked out, trashed barrel, and if you do, they're going to make it right. And quite simply, you'd be suprised at the number of people that had never heard of CMP before, and thought that the only M1's that wern't junked out $1000 toys were the newly manufactured SA's.
mainmech48
Member
So far, nobody's said anything about just what kind of casting we're talking about here. IMO, Ruger pretty much demonstrated that, with proper metallurgy and due care, investment castings are very bit as functionally sound as any billet forging, and allow the manufacturer to offer a high-quality product at a substantial savings from those produced with "traditional" methods.
The only personal experience that I have vis a vis Lithgow products are two SMLEs circa WWII. One .303 and a .22 RF trainer. Both are at least as well-made as any others I've seen, and more-than-a-little better than many.
I'm something of a Luddite Geezer myself, and can partially understand the prejudice of some towards things new. But dismissing every innovation as being "inferior" simply because it ain't the way Grampaw did it, in the face of compelling evidence of its functionality, is pretty silly IMO.
The only personal experience that I have vis a vis Lithgow products are two SMLEs circa WWII. One .303 and a .22 RF trainer. Both are at least as well-made as any others I've seen, and more-than-a-little better than many.
I'm something of a Luddite Geezer myself, and can partially understand the prejudice of some towards things new. But dismissing every innovation as being "inferior" simply because it ain't the way Grampaw did it, in the face of compelling evidence of its functionality, is pretty silly IMO.
Thanks guys. I saw the write-up about the Lithgow reciever on Fulton Armory's website, too, and I was worried about the QC. I probably won't get an SA Inc. Garand (I definitly wouldn't pay over SA's price, anyway). I will probably go with the Garand Guy. I would really love an M-1C setup from Fulton Armory, though... Hearing that he reparkerizes all the parts makes me feel good though- I wanted a nice, even finish. I can do the trigger work myself- shouldn't be too hard. Should I take him up on getting a new barrel and gas cylinder, though?
It also isn't the type of casting- it is the quality. That is why Lithgow got poor reports from FA. (Don't buy a Century Arms or Federal Ordenance reciever, either- they got horrible tech reports, too)
Garand Fund Status: $700 now, will be $880 on Thursday And then it is order time as soon as my parents agree to allow me to have a gun of my own!
After that, an M-14 with a Smith Enterprises 8620 SS or a Fulton Armory Reciever!
It also isn't the type of casting- it is the quality. That is why Lithgow got poor reports from FA. (Don't buy a Century Arms or Federal Ordenance reciever, either- they got horrible tech reports, too)
Garand Fund Status: $700 now, will be $880 on Thursday
And then it is order time as soon as my parents agree to allow me to have a gun of my own!After that, an M-14 with a Smith Enterprises 8620 SS or a Fulton Armory Reciever!
FWIW surplus 30-06 is getting harder and harder to find. Surplus 7.62X51 NATO is abundant and way cheaper. The ballistic differences between 30-06 and NATO/.308 fired out of a Garand are minor.
If you can get a NATO/.308 barrel I'd recommend it.
cracked butt
Member
I take things that are written on Fooled You armory's site with a grain of salt. It completely smacks of sensationalist journalism. They find one cast receiver that is out of spec and condemn every non-GI receiver ever made. Likewise, they find one blown up rifle and use it as an example of how they think that everyone who reloads for a battle rifle either has a deathwish or is a complete idiot.
I have yet to hear of a service grade (yes, the ones that cost $500 from CMP) be anything that you described.
I have yet to hear of a service grade (yes, the ones that cost $500 from CMP) be anything that you described.
30Cal
Member
I'd shoot what you get until the barrel gives up and then have it replaced with a .308Win tube. Gas cylinders and oprod pistons will outlast several barrels--I wouldn't worry about it unless the gun starts having problems.
I'd advise not doing trigger work yourself. Saving $40 isn't worth an out-of-battery discharge which will certainly ruin the rifle if not the shooter as well.
jefnvk
Member
I wouldn't reccomend going out of your way to simply rebarrel it, especially if it still ahs a good barel on it, but if you are having it done anyways, I'd go for the 7.62.
CMP has Lake City Surplus .30-06 for $192/960 rounds, non-corrosive Korean goes for about $80/400 or so from places like Sportsmans Guide, if you stay .30-06.
Sorry guys, I am definitly not going to get a Garand with a 7.62 Nato Barrel. I just don't think it is right. I am going to stick with the .30-06 barrel. If I want a 7.62 Nato, I will get an FAL, CETME, HK-91, or an M-14, all made for the 7.62 cartridge. I guess I will only get a new barrel, then. If I don't like it, I will get the new barrel in 7.62. I also feel confident doing my on trigger work. I am just going to polish the parkerizing off if I feel it needs it.
I know Fulton's website blows some stuff out of proportion. In fact, they failed to mention that some poor factory ammo is out-of-spec and causes a blown-up rifle, too. However, I think I will stick with a GI reciever on this deal. Does anyone know if Orion 7 reparkerizes their rifles.
I still haven't completely decided between a Garand or a good M-14, yet, either. Personally, I think I will probably go M-14 if I can get up the cash, and get a CMP Garand later. The action is almost the same...
I know Fulton's website blows some stuff out of proportion. In fact, they failed to mention that some poor factory ammo is out-of-spec and causes a blown-up rifle, too. However, I think I will stick with a GI reciever on this deal. Does anyone know if Orion 7 reparkerizes their rifles.
I still haven't completely decided between a Garand or a good M-14, yet, either. Personally, I think I will probably go M-14 if I can get up the cash, and get a CMP Garand later. The action is almost the same...
AZ Jeff
Member
jefnvk stated the following:
"I would expect a new gun would look new, feel new, and shoot around 1 MOA"
Just a point of clarification:
A issue grade Garand, even when brand new, will only do about 2-3 MOA. The only M1 that will do 1 MOA is one that has been accurized to AMU standards or the equivalent by someone who knows what he is doing.
"I would expect a new gun would look new, feel new, and shoot around 1 MOA"
Just a point of clarification:
A issue grade Garand, even when brand new, will only do about 2-3 MOA. The only M1 that will do 1 MOA is one that has been accurized to AMU standards or the equivalent by someone who knows what he is doing.
I've had my "new" SA Garand for awhile. No problems to report. She was a little tight, but I worked her loose. She's swallowed everything I've fed her without a hiccup. I went in wanting new not used. I liked SA warranty, although I've had no need of it.
I'd take Fool'em Armory's writings with a grain of salt as well. As with any company that sells a competing/alternative product, you have to be a little bit skeptical if they slam the competition.
It's your choice, your dollar, get what you're comfortable with and what you'll be satisfied with. But I've never had any problems with my "new" SA garand. I might get a GI one some day, but I haven't got the urge yet.
She's swallowed everything I've fed her without a hiccup. I went in wanting new not used. I liked SA warranty, although I've had no need of it. I'd take Fool'em Armory's writings with a grain of salt as well. As with any company that sells a competing/alternative product, you have to be a little bit skeptical if they slam the competition.
It's your choice, your dollar, get what you're comfortable with and what you'll be satisfied with. But I've never had any problems with my "new" SA garand. I might get a GI one some day, but I haven't got the urge yet.
jefnvk
Member
Yeah, shoulda remembered that. IIRC, 4 MOA was the standard.
All my CMP guns would hold around 2-3". From the $295 Greek Rack to the $400 US rack. Kinda hard to beat those prices. Especially when I was offered $550 for the Greek rack (and very stupidly sold it) when my dad's friend seen it.
All my CMP guns would hold around 2-3". From the $295 Greek Rack to the $400 US rack. Kinda hard to beat those prices. Especially when I was offered $550 for the Greek rack (and very stupidly sold it) when my dad's friend seen it.
Just remember Fulton Armory never has anything good to say about anything that didn't come directly from Fulton Armory,,,enough said on that point.
The Springfield M1 reproductions are decent but why spend the money when for the same, or a little less you can buy a genuine USGI M1 from CMP and rebarrel it and rebuild it to the specifications you want??
Rack Rifle $525 tops with shipping.
Brand new Barrel installed $200.00-$500 depend on how silly you want to get.
New gas cylinder assembly including all $150 tops
Gunsmith tuning of trigger group $65.00
Bed, unitize, and refinish stock $150.00
Refinish all metal $150 tops.
Match sights $150-$200
$1290-$1750 total, ready to shoot.
The prices are comparable and Springfield Inc. knows this.
The plus side for you the consumer is the USGI rifle can rebuilt as time and money becomes available instead of laying all the cash down at once.
The Springfield M1 reproductions are decent but why spend the money when for the same, or a little less you can buy a genuine USGI M1 from CMP and rebarrel it and rebuild it to the specifications you want??
Rack Rifle $525 tops with shipping.
Brand new Barrel installed $200.00-$500 depend on how silly you want to get.
New gas cylinder assembly including all $150 tops
Gunsmith tuning of trigger group $65.00
Bed, unitize, and refinish stock $150.00
Refinish all metal $150 tops.
Match sights $150-$200
$1290-$1750 total, ready to shoot.
The prices are comparable and Springfield Inc. knows this.
The plus side for you the consumer is the USGI rifle can rebuilt as time and money becomes available instead of laying all the cash down at once.
To add to what I posted earlier, there is a reason to get something other than a CMP M1. And that is looks. If you are going to pay the money to get a refubished M1 from someone, I think the Springfield may be a good buy; obviouly depending on what you pay for it. As I mentioned, I bought mine for $700: if I really wanted an M1 that was freshly parkerized and had a stock without dings and all that, I think I did OK. You certainly are not going to buy an M1 from the CMP that looks like that. The reason I would buy a CMP rifle is simply because it works just as well as the rest of them and is cheaper. The downside is looks. IMO, paying anymore than the CMP price for an M1 is just for looks.
One thing that I always get a kick out of in threads like this:
"Get a REAL GI M1. Don't settle for one of these fakes"........ "Then convert it to .308 and have it refinished".
One thing that I always get a kick out of in threads like this:
"Get a REAL GI M1. Don't settle for one of these fakes"........ "Then convert it to .308 and have it refinished".
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