How load m14 type rifle silently?

[axxxel]

I've got a chinese built m14 type rifle that I intend to use for hunting this fall. Due to the local traditions I sometimes need to keep the rifle unloaded until I'm quite close to potential prey. Because of this I need to be able to load my rifle as silently as possible.

On the firing range I just use the charging handle to pull the bolt to its most rearward position and then let go. This is very much too noisy for a typical "load close to the game"-situation. When trying to figure out how to chamber the first round I first tried slowly letting the bolt forward and then pushing it forward fo the last inch, to ensure bolt lockup.

This doesn't seem to be working, as the extractor won't engage the rim on the cartridge. The bolt simply won't go all the way forward and when I pull the charging handle back I find the cartridge in the chamber. I tried pushing the handle a little stronger but I don't want to experiment with that before understanding how the extractor works.

How exactly does the extractor engage the extraction groove on the cartridges? How does the cartridge end up being held by the extractor? It can't slide into position from below because the ejector is in the way. Does the force from the forward bolt movement force the extractor to open and "let the cartridge in"? If so it seems as if it would be safe to slowly moving the bolt forward and then forcefully closing it fully.



I finally managed to load my rifle silently by locking the bolt rearward with the bolt lock and then inserting the cartridge rim in the extractor, pushing the bullet "inwards" from the ejection port to lever against the ejector, while simultaneously letting the bolt forward. This works well but I have to push the cartridge with some force to counter the ejector and it damages the rim of the case. It's also quite cumbersome.

 

[jmorris]

Looks like you have a pretty good understanding of the problems slow loading, so I'll ask a question as I don't have much help other than to say a break open single shot would do what you want. Why unloaded, is the safety not good enough?

 

[Robert]

Due to the local traditions I sometimes need to keep the rifle unloaded

What? Why?

 

[hso]

There's no way to reliably load an M14 without making noise.

axxxel, are you in Europe or Scandinavia?

 

[jpwilly]

How to Load an M1A Quietly = Place buttstock securely on the bottom of the rifle safe, let go, grab a bolt action rifle, go hunting.

 

[Unistat]

Can you load a round into the chamber and then drop the mag, giving the appearence of being "unloaded" (with all due saftey, of course!) Would that satisfy "tradition?"

I would not be super comfortable doing the above, but I would feel better about it if I could have the rifle in my possession the entire time it was in this state.

I am, as I'm sure is everyone else, very curious about this tradition. Is it just a matter of an anti-gun culture or are there other reasons?

 

[axxxel]

I'm Swedish, so yeah, Scandinavia.

Obviously we don't hunt with unloaded rifles!

When stalking, for example, it's common to load the rifle as soon as you're within hunting grounds, i.e. as soon as you've gotten out of your cabin and you're walking towards the area where you intend to do your stalking.

However, when on a driven hunt you generally keep your rifle unloaded with the action open (i.e. bolt fully retracted) so that everybody can see that your rifle is unloaded until the actual hunt begins. Usually a group of hunters will position its hunters along a line with a couple of hundred meters between each hunter. While moving out along this line the hunters will move in a group, leaving one hunter behind each 200-300m. While moving with the group, we keep our rifles unloaded. The hunter then loads his or her rifle as soon as he/she has left the group.

This is basically a safety rule which is used to make sure people will get along and be safe even though they have varying experience and understanding of firearms safety.

 

[Robert]

Ah ok then. That makes sense.

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't like to rain on somebody's parade, but I do believe I'd buy a rifle which is more suitable for that particular style of hunting.

Traditional customs come about for logical reasons. They have the moral force of law, even though a government may not be involved and such a law is unwritten. Trying to arrange a "work around" does not speak well for the doer.

A cumbersome method appears to violate the KISS principle, and can become a problem with safety...

 

[axxxel]

I don't like to rain on somebody's parade, but I do believe I'd buy a rifle which is more suitable for that particular style of hunting.

Traditional customs come about for logical reasons. They have the moral force of law, even though a government may not be involved and such a law is unwritten. Trying to arrange a "work around" does not speak well for the doer.

A cumbersome method appears to violate the KISS principle, and can become a problem with safety...

My rifle is perfectly suitable for this style of traditional hunting; it's a military style "american" semi-auto that will annoy the hell out of the all the "purists" and prohibitionists.

I guess I'll just practice my style of slow loading for now.

 

[MrSpiffy]

I believe he meant that the rifle you have is not suitable for silent loading. Hence your having to find a cumbersome workaround to achieve it. My guess is he's recommending a bolt-action rifle, which is much easier to load silently than a semi-auto. I'd recommend the same. But I like your style of annoying the purists. Someone's gotta be a rebel!

 

[mr.scott]

Remind them that that type of gun is why they aren't speaking german now and that the americans stalked their german prey with a loaded gun.

 

[herkyguy]

you could try to cough really loud but then again it might defeat the purpose.....

 

[redman900]

you could go Shhhhh! first.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

M14s shot Germans? I read it on the internet so it must be true

 

[GCBurner]

You can lock the bolt open manually with the magazine in the rifle, and not hit the bolt release until your sights are on the target, and you're ready to fire.
It would sound like: *SNICK!'* *BANG*!

 

[Art Eatman]

axxxel, I figure that if I'm hunting with a group, I'll be cooperative within the group's structure. Otherwise, why be with the group at all? Granted, my view of hunting with others is rather in a friendship or family sense, with friendly social interaction a large part of why I'm there in the first place.

To me, then, this is the issue: "...will annoy the hell out of the all the "purists" and prohibitionists."

Why would you want to be around purists and prohibitionists? Why bother? What fun is that?

 

[451 Detonics]

You should also be able to slide a round under the extractor with the bolt open then close it quietly, then insert the magazine. I would also think if you dropped off a group of hunters enough noise is being made by their movement letting the bolt go from about halfway would work as well.

 

[MrCleanOK]

If you're being dropped off by a vehicle, is loading your rifle as soon as you dismount the truck really such a concern? Last I heard, trucks weren't exactly silent themselves.

 

[Sunray]

"...that type of gun is why they aren't speaking German..." Does the term 'Neutral' mean anything to you?
"...rifle is unloaded until the actual hunt begins..." That'd solve your problem. When the drive starts, load as per normal. The noise of the action closing won't be an issue with a bunch of hunters doing the same thing with whatever they're using.

 

[Lone Star]

Sunray-

Yeah, and many think that Sweden even (largely) sympathized with Germany then. They interned our aircrews who had to land there. And I gather that they were not, overall, as nice about it as were the Swiss.

AXXXEL-

Frankly, I'm surprised that Sweden allows modern military type rifles to be used for hunting. I'm glad that they do.

I'd just load from the magazine, I guess, on being dropped off. I doubt that a moose will bolt from the noise, with all the other activity. Even cycling a bolt action at normal speed makes some noise, as would loading and closing a single-shot. It is definitely best not to ride the closing bolt on auto weapons. Let the bolt snap home like it's intended to do, or you may have more problems than the sound of a closing bolt. Ditto for the slides of autoloading pistols, although you probably know that.

As long as you're here, do you know the current Swedish military pistol? What do most police forces carry? (Are some pistols materially more popular than others?)

Congratulations on your excellent English. I think I can manage one sentence in Swedish and I can say, "Skiet" for "shoot", and I probably spelled that wrong.

Oh: a Swedish acquaintance told me that he often carries a 9.3X62mm now in lieu of his 6.5X55, because trhere are bears in his hunting area. That doesn't inspire me to opt for a single-shot.

 

[Colt Smith]

I don't know how close you are engaging your target. How about adding a bit more distance to the shot so the noise of your rifle loading becomes less noticeable to your prey?

 

[axxxel]

Why would you want to be around purists and prohibitionists?

Well, after all, they're family .

Maybe I made it sound worse than it is, but I think it's a good thing to be just a little bit of a rebel. If not for other reasons then for strictly political ones; over here you apply for a firearms license for each individual firearm you purchase, and you have to be specific of your purpose for buying the firearm. It wasn't that easy to get an m14 type rifle for hunting, and now that I got it, I want to use it to show my hunting buddies that I can, and that they should be able to as well. Just trying to put the m14 and similar rifles inside their idea of what constitutes a hunting rifle.

If you're being dropped off by a vehicle, is loading your rifle as soon as you dismount the truck really such a concern? Last I heard, trucks weren't exactly silent themselves.

Don't laugh at me for this but the deer don't seem to be startled by cars moving around in the area.

You should also be able to slide a round under the extractor with the bolt open then close it quietly, then insert the magazine. I would also think if you dropped off a group of hunters enough noise is being made by their movement letting the bolt go from about halfway would work as well.

I'm thinking something along these lines as well, but if you're experimenting with releasing the bolt from half-forward and such you need to make sure that the bolt is locking up properly, obviously.

Sunray-

Yeah, and many think that Sweden even (largely) sympathized with Germany then. They interned our aircrews who had to land there. And I gather that they were not, overall, as nice about it as were the Swiss.

AXXXEL-

Frankly, I'm surprised that Sweden allows modern military type rifles to be used for hunting. I'm glad that they do.

I'd just load from the magazine, I guess, on being dropped off. I doubt that a moose will bolt from the noise, with all the other activity. Even cycling a bolt action at normal speed makes some noise, as would loading and closing a single-shot. It is definitely best not to ride the closing bolt on auto weapons. Let the bolt snap home like it's intended to do, or you may have more problems than the sound of a closing bolt. Ditto for the slides of autoloading pistols, although you probably know that.

As long as you're here, do you know the current Swedish military pistol? What do most police forces carry? (Are some pistols materially more popular than others?)

Congratulations on your excellent English. I think I can manage one sentence in Swedish and I can say, "Skiet" for "shoot", and I probably spelled that wrong.

Oh: a Swedish acquaintance told me that he often carries a 9.3X62mm now in lieu of his 6.5X55, because trhere are bears in his hunting area. That doesn't inspire me to opt for a single-shot

'

Sweden do not generally issue licenses for modern military style rifles for the purpose of hunting. I sent in a picture of the left side of an m1a in a very nice wooden stock and I lived in a liberal municipality back then ( liberal as in "Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes", not as in "social democratic").

The military currently uses the glock 17 and the glock 19. I think the police uses the p228 or p226 pistols, but I imagine they might have some glocks as well. In exceptional cases private security guards are permitted to carry (such as airport security) and I see mainly glocks sticking out of their holsters.

The 9,3x62 is increasingly popular because of the increased wild boar populations and the increasing popularity of brown bear hunting. I am of the opinion that if you put a hole the size of an expanded bullet through one or both lungs of a mammal, the survival chances of the mammal without medical attention is limited at best.

Sometimes you need to make sure that the mammal dies before it mauls you, and for that reason I wouldn't opt for a single shot either, but I wouldn't consider myself under-armed with a 6,5x55 bolt action as long as I was confident with it and it's optics.

As WW2 goes, I we were just trying not to get stomped.

We were proud of having avoided The Great War (which was probably and hopefully the greatest waste of human life ever) and having transitioned to democracy without bloodshed, having secured womens' right to vote and so on. From what I understand, the majority of swedes even back then were strongly opposed to the militaristic dictatorship of nazi-Germany, and at least just as scared of the militaristic communist dictatorship of the Soviet union.


Neutrality doesn't seem all that stupid when you have a tiny, ill prepared military force and you're situated between the Soviet Union and nazi- Germany.

 

[unwise11]

Carry a loose round in your pocket, drop it in the chamber, slowly guide the bolt forward then hit the handle forward with your hand to fully seat it, then insert a mag.

 

[Motega]

On topic "B" “I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”
I deeply respect your people, and most especially their hot cocoa but doubt very much you would have been left alone. Just saved for last perhaps.

Anyway- don't worry about making noise if you are talking about hunting cervids (deer, etc.). Focus on getting a shot off within 3 second of making the noise. A popular tactic here is to whistle, even SHOUT at a moving deer to get it to stop long enough to shoot. With everything but a traditional bow (longbow, recurve), I have found this tactic is just fine on deer regardless of how old and smart they are. That mechanical noise of a bolt slamming home is perfect for them to stop dead in their tracks and look around. I've NEVER seen any other reaction. Even when I am on the ground 10 yards and they see me, if they hear a loud noise their first reaction is inevitably to come to a complete stop for a few seconds before bolting.