How much fire protection does a gun safe offer?

Status
Not open for further replies.

mikemyers

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
1,417
Location
South Florida and South India
Sad news, which got me to thinking. While browsing this morning, I saw this photo and caption. It got me to wondering how much protection a typical gun safe really offers... I have no idea what kind of safe this fellow had.

900x506.jpg
"Spencer Blackwell, left, and Danielle Tate find Tate's father's gun collection, melted and burned, inside a gun safe at her father's home in the Coffey Park neighborhood of Santa Rosa."


Terrible fires, and still not controlled. I'm not sure if anything could have saved a gun collection when the building is burning like it was here. I'm sure it's not the only thing, or maybe not even the most important thing, to protect, but still. Can a safe that is "fire resistant" survive something like this?
 
There's no such thing as a 'typical gun safe'. That's like asking about the velocity of the 'typical rifle bullet'.

There are RSCs (Residential Security Containers) and UL Rated Safes of various grades, any of which may or may not have a separate UL Fire Protection rating. Check the door of yours for a UL Cert placard to see what you have. If you don't find a placard you probably don't have an RSC or a safe, but a steel box painted to look like a safe.
 
Most fire safes I’ve seen are rated for 1 hr or less. Really expensive ones might last a bit longer. I don’t think you can ever rely on a fire safe to protect your guns in a real fire without sustaining major damage or destruction. Those California fires are wind driven and would be hotter than a typical house fire I’ve seen around here.
 
My AMSEC RSC is rated at 90 minutes. Some I've seen are rated for 30 minutes. They are assuming that the FD will be on hand to extinguish the blaze. In a situation like California wildfires all bets are off.
 
This might not be true for all brands of safes, but I understand that the material that is sometimes added to increase fire protection might absorb moisture. Thus, more fire protection could mean more likelihood of rust.
 
mikemyers wrote:
How much fire protection does a gun safe offer?

Unless specifically designed to provide fire protection, NONE.

Safes specifically designed to provide fire protection will have a UL rating certificate on the door. The rating is expressed in terms of minutes the safe can maintain a safe internal temperature. This is determined under laboratory conditions. What your safe will experience in a real-world fire will probably be different from the test conditions and so the safe may not even deliver the protection it is certified for.

The best course of action is, of course, to not build a house in close proximity to trees and shrubs that offer a ready fuel source for a moving fire and then build using non-combustible materials to the maximum extent possible.

Of course, everyone should take a few minutes to think about what they want to protect in the event of a fire, flood, or other catastrophic event and have a prepared list of what they are going to throw in the back of the car (that will actually fit in the car) when they evacuate.

As far as the fire that caused the damage in your photograph, no residential safe would have been able to save the guns inside it through a fire of that intensity and duration. Collectable guns (and guns with significant sentimental value) should be readily available for evacuation. Non-collectible guns should be covered for replacement cost by a rider on your homeowner's insurance.
 
Remember that a "Residential Safety Container" (RSC) is NOT a real "Safe". Try to find an old one with asbestos in it, I would not think it would be a health hazard if it is properly sealed. But I'm not a doctor and you should take my advise with a grain (or more) of salt. Also, it probably would not even have helped in the above scenario.

Unfortunately, many "typical" "gun safes" are RSCs.

Concrete house. Good idea in a fire (with other precautions as well, not that it is impervious to everything). Or a zombie rebellion. Sad to see the destruction, I've got family and friends close... Keeping an eye on the fires...
 
Lot of 'em offer no fire rating at all. They're just steel boxes. You pay for a fire rating and that's time at a specific temperature. Nothing will stand up to the time it takes to do that much damage.
 
Lets be reasonable here. If your house is subjected to a dryer vent fire , or grease fire on the stove , which then begins to spread to other rooms - 911 called with reasonable response time , and your gun safe has some level of fire rating you are probably going to be ok.

If your house is at the center of a firestorm which utterly destroys everything for a mile in all directions - all bets are off.

Only a well designed underground bunker would save your guns in the firestorm , and they do not sell those at WalMart.
 
I have an older fire safe that was bought by my father sometime in the 80's. I mostly use it to store my coin collection and it sits on a shelf inside my gun safe. It came with a sheet on instructions that describe just how fire safe it is. Essentially it talks about how a fire safe protects against small residential fires such as kitchen fires that do not engulf the whole home. And in the event of a "total" house fire, to let the fire department know where the safe is so it can be retrieved before it fails.

Same principle with gun safes. In a total house burn, your collection is toast. I have seen basement gun bunkers, surrounded by concrete and rebar get enough damage to write off a collection of firearms.
 
I guess this is one of the good things about living in the midwest; it's darned near impossible to set a hardwoods forest on fire. I still have to worry about my house burning, but chances are the fire department won't also be trying to save all my neighbors' houses at the same time.
 
Lets be reasonable here. If your house is subjected to a dryer vent fire , or grease fire on the stove , which then begins to spread to other rooms - 911 called with reasonable response time , and your gun safe has some level of fire rating you are probably going to be ok.

If your house is at the center of a firestorm which utterly destroys everything for a mile in all directions - all bets are off.

Only a well designed underground bunker would save your guns in the firestorm , and they do not sell those at WalMart.

This is basically what I was going to post.
FWIW: I am a retired professional firefighter. I worked in a major US city (not a rural area).

There are a lot of things to consider with this subject.
Basically, if you live in a place that has a full time paid fire department, and they have an adequate water supply, and someone discovers the fire fairly quickly..............and you have a fire rated safe: the guns are going to be fine. Hell, I have been on dozens of legitimate house fires where guns were leaning in the corner and other than getting a lot of smoke, they were probably fine.

If your house is on fire and it takes the fire department a half hour to get there, the odds go down. If the fire department that responds stand out in the yard and spray water in the windows, the odds go down. And so on. There is no one right answer.

People in these threads tend to present absolute worst case scenarios and then declare that fire rated safes (or any kind of safe) are worthless. The picture in the original post is similar to photos of ground zero after a nuclear bomb went off. Just a pro-tip: if there is nothing left of the house other than a pile of ash or a few bricks, or any of the houses in the neighborhood .............then yeah, the safe isn't going to do you much good. People tend to post scenarios where the fire is unvented, and there is no attempt to fight the fire before the building collapses.............. and then try to imply that is a typical house fire. I should add that if you live in a very rural area, that might be the case. But for the majority of the US population, that isn't the case.

But I would say that barring anything like a disaster or professional thieves that happened to target your house or something like that...........I would say a safe is a valuable thing to have.

FWIW: Just a wild guess, not based in any way on fact: but.........I would be willing to bet that if my house burned to the ground, the guns in my safe would probably be OK. Not because it is any special safe, or because I know something nobody else knows. It is just that my safe is in the basement. Against a masonry wall. Heat rises. The basement would remain relatively cool. Smoke rises along with heat. Once the fire progressed to the point the entire upstairs was gone or collapsed, the fire would be vented to the outside which makes the fire much cooler (inside the building): this is why you see firefighters cutting holes in the roof.....or one of the reasons.

But I really don't see that happening. Although I don't live in town, I do live in an area serviced by a full time paid fire department and I have a hydrant in my yard.
 
Last edited:
There has been a long time running joke in the parish (county for you out of staters) is that the fire department comes out to contain your house fire. Your house burns, but they keep it from spreading to your neighbors.

I bought my gun safes to keep my guns from being stolen, not to keep them from burning. But I did see a video where a guy used a $12 Harber Fright 4” side grinder to get into a nice safe in under 30 minuets.o_O
 
There's no such thing as a 'typical gun safe'. That's like asking about the velocity of the 'typical rifle bullet'.

There are RSCs (Residential Security Containers) and UL Rated Safes of various grades, any of which may or may not have a separate UL Fire Protection rating. Check the door of yours for a UL Cert placard to see what you have. If you don't find a placard you probably don't have an RSC or a safe, but a steel box painted to look like a safe.
no RSC , that I am aware of carry the UL for fire protecion rating.
 
None, as others have said. A mate of mine lost some very nice rifles when his house burned down. His very secure, Police approved, multiple locking, steel cabinet got so hot everything not metal virtually vapourised.
 
how much protection a typical gun safe really offers


We've had several threads on safes and RSCs with a couple of real experts participating and learned that unless the safe is rated rather high there's very little protection out there in what are called "gun safes".

Even more enlightening are the two other major issues about water protection from production of steam and moisture in safes lined with "dry wall" instead of real insulating materials that don't evolve moisture when heated in a fire AND the leaking of water from fire departments trying to drown a fire. Both result in rust and water damage.

Placement of a safe, any safe, is important in consideration of how protected the items in it will be against heat, fire, moisture and water as a safe sitting on a floor in a basement flooded a foot deep in water from the FD will have water above the lip of the safe, but might suffer less heat vs. one on a higher floor that would not sit in water, but experience more heat.

The summary of issue might be something like this - locating your safe so you minimize water intrusion into the safe is important, placing it so it isn't going to be in the hottest part of the flames and owning a true fire rated safe that will withstand an hour and a half of rating temp instead of a quarter hour. You can make up for lower rated safes by placement in fire protected spaces and avoid some of the interior flooding issues by putting them several inches off the floor, but nothing will help you much if you'r just using a "fire" gun safe that really isn't listed and with truly dry insulation.
 
Last edited:
I've seen pictures in the past of safes that have survived forest/wild fires, but I have no idea about the brand, or conditions.

I think this is a valid question. While it won't pertain to many of the folks who live in the Midwest, wet climates, or areas that are more urban, it is certainly a concern for many of us. My wife grew up in the mountains just a few miles west of our home. Forest fires are common in those mountains, and people do occasionally lose everything in those fires. We're planning to move back to the mountains in the near future, and we know the risk of fires in that area just as people in Kansas understand tornadoes, and those in Florida understand hurricanes.

When we make that move I plan to figure out a way to keep my gun collection safe in the event of a forest fire that strikes when I'm not home. Obviously (in a perfect world) such things would be evacuated ahead of time, but nature doesn't always play by our rules. I've personally watched how a 1 or 2 acre fire can blow up into a multi-thousand acre monster almost instantaneously when the conditions are right (warm, dry, windy, and with fuel to burn). There is no way that firefighters can effectively battle nature in those situations... the only option is to get out of the way and hope for the best.

I don't know what level of fire rating is right for a forest fire threat, but I'm hoping to figure it out soon myself.
 
This is basically what I was going to post.
FWIW: I am a retired professional firefighter. I worked in a major US city (not a rural area).

There are a lot of things to consider with this subject.
Basically, if you live in a place that has a full time paid fire department, and they have an adequate water supply, and someone discovers the fire fairly quickly..............and you have a fire rated safe: the guns are going to be fine. Hell, I have been on dozens of legitimate house fires where guns were leaning in the corner and other than getting a lot of smoke, they were probably fine.

If your house is on fire and it takes the fire department a half hour to get there, the odds go down. If the fire department that responds stand out in the yard and spray water in the windows, the odds go down. And so on. There is no one right answer.

agreed.....with so many variables, there is no right answer.
 
There has been a long time running joke in the parish (county for you out of staters) is that the fire department comes out to contain your house fire. Your house burns, but they keep it from spreading to your neighbors.

I bought my gun safes to keep my guns from being stolen, not to keep them from burning. But I did see a video where a guy used a $12 Harber Fright 4” side grinder to get into a nice safe in under 30 minuets.o_O


Took me ten to get in mine with a battery powered sawsall
 
Folks, don't be fooled into equating marketing terms with UL listing. Unless it is UL listed, or one of our two forum experts chime in with advice, you'd be foolish to trust "fire proof" advertising. Don't be duped and don't volunteer to be duped.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top