How much powder for roundball deer?

[brewer12345]

I was fiddling around with my 50 cal TC Hawken that I put a Green Mountain slow twist 32" barrel on. I haven't shot it enough to quite know what the optimal load is, but I was very impressed with how it shot roundball with 70 grains of FFG. Don't know if I will hunt with this gun this fall or go with the 58 I need to shoot, but it is a possibility. I will try bumping the charge up and see how it shoots, but is 70 grains enough to cleanly take a 150 pound mule deer out to 75 yards? The doe I shot last year with a 54 round ball was a small white tail and that ball had a lot of powder behind it (gun liked 110 grains best).

 

[Bfh_auto]

I prefer 90-110. 70 might work, but I know 90 will from experience.

 

[troy fairweather]

I shot 2 deer with 4 5 rb and 80 of pyrodex, one was at about 40 yards Hart shot ran maybe 40 yards dead on its feet. The other at about 100 aimed high in case my range was off, drt went through the top of both scapula and exited.

I think you should be fine with proper aim.

 

[DocRock]

I have a shorter barrel CVA Frontier that likes 80 grs Fffg. With the 32" barrel, 85- 90 grs Ffg should be your sweet spot.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

My best accuracy is at 80-85 grains of FF real Black Powder (I use Schuetzen) and it has taken Michigan whitetails.

 

[Armored farmer]

I use 90gr in my .54 Hawken

 

[desmobob]

My normal .50 round ball load is 90gr. FFG. Kills 'em dead. I have an old Italian 1980s Armsport Hawken with a slow-twist barrel.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Mine likes 65 grains of powder, best accuracy load for me, dropped a mule deer at 75 yards with a head shot using a round ball.

 

[frontiergander]

70gr 2fg is plenty.

.490 round ball, .020" patch

80gr 2fg

70gr 3fg

 

[ThomasT]

I have killed one deer with a BP rifle. A cheap Traditions Springfield 50cal Hawken I built from a $105 dollar kit. I used 70grs of 3F and it did the trick. I killed a cow elk with a 54 caliber and 90grs 2F behind a Lee Improved Minnie.

 

[792mauser]

Taken a couple of javelina with my investarms .50"
A .490 180gr ball, .01 mineral oil patch and some cotton fluff tamped on 75gr of goex or homemade holy black.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

...but is 70 grains enough to cleanly take a 150 pound mule deer out to 75 yards?

All else being equal, as others have replied, 70 grains of powder is plenty behind that .490 ball. Folks going above 90 grains even in a 32" barrel on a plains style rifle, likely are making a nice fireball but not getting nearly the same jumps in velocity that one gets from 60-70, 70-80, and 80-90 grains. BUT if one finds a very accurate load higher than 90 then one may want to use that. Once you are using a load above say 60 grains, worry about accuracy first, rather than impact.
You should also not neglect to try 3Fg in your rifle.

LD

 

[brewer12345]

Thanks, Dave. I was mostly out to blow off some steam and fool around with the rifle. Tomorrow I will be trying out the 58 for the first time. This is the other contender for deer season and I know any powder charge that is accurate from that thing will kill elk, let alone deer.

Also have a 45 to try, but only legal for deer in my state with a conical.

 

[Bfh_auto]

All else being equal, as others have replied, 70 grains of powder is plenty behind that .490 ball. Folks going above 90 grains even in a 32" barrel on a plains style rifle, likely are making a nice fireball but not getting nearly the same jumps in velocity that one gets from 60-70, 70-80, and 80-90 grains. BUT if one finds a very accurate load higher than 90 then one may want to use that. Once you are using a load above say 60 grains, worry about accuracy first, rather than impact.
You should also not neglect to try 3Fg in your rifle.

LD

I agree that velocity gains aren't as much as you go past 80 gr.
I did notice that going from 90 to 110 made the difference between getting a pass through and having the ball flatten and stay inside the hide more often than not.

 

[rodwha]

I ran the numbers for 2F Goex posted in the 2nd Edition Lyman’s Handbook using 70 and 90 grns. I’m at 900’ elevation. Numbers are at the muzzle and at 75 yds:

70 grns 1471/851 1019/408
90 grns 1651/1071 1093/470

I don’t see a whole lot of difference between the two at 75 yds. The faster a ball is pushed it seems the faster it slows down to a point. Regardless it seems 70-90 grns is typical for a .50 cal on the traditional forum and all I read about are piles of dead deer.

 

[skeeterfogger]

Don't know. Never hunted a Round Ball Deer.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I did notice that going from 90 to 110 made the difference between getting a pass through and having the ball flatten and stay inside the hide more often than not .

That's odd, as I've seen a lot of deer taken with both the .530 and the .490 and out to 100 yards, once the load was above 70 grains, it was rare that the ball didn't pass through. Even on several mule deer, though the guys taking those were using 80-90 grains. On the other hand all were using 3Fg, not 2Fg.



LD

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Don't know. Never hunted a Round Ball Deer.

They're a lot more common than square ball deer around here.

 

[Bfh_auto]

That's odd, as I've seen a lot of deer taken with both the .530 and the .490 and out to 100 yards, once the load was above 70 grains, it was rare that the ball didn't pass through. Even on several mule deer, though the guys taking those were using 80-90 grains. On the other hand all were using 3Fg, not 2Fg.

View attachment 907076

LD

My experience has been a half dollar shaped chunk of lead under the offside shoulder.
90 was hit and miss on an exit. I've never used less.
My brother's still use fffg. I've switched to 777 and sabots. This year will be a Hornady conical.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Have taken several deer with 90 gr. RS and a .54 RB; most with a .54 Green Mtn slow twist barrel in a TC Hawken. 80 gr. would probably work OK. 70 seems a little light, but shot placement is key.

 

[J-Bar]

There have been tons of deer harvested with the .44-40 (.44 WCF).

Yeah, it was a cartridge, not a muzzleloader. But 40 grains of blackpowder has proven to be sufficient.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

There have been tons of deer harvested with the .44-40 (.44 WCF).

Yeah, it was a cartridge, not a muzzleloader. But 40 grains of blackpowder has proven to be sufficient.

That's correct. But most cartridge guns will give you a quick second or third shot if needed. With only one aboard, you need to put them down.

 

[brewer12345]

So I thought I would take one more crack at this. I shot a doe at 50 yards with a 54 round ball and although I did not make the greatest shot, she was done for depsite running 100 yards (in the right direction, so there is that). I like some margin on error in my hunting setup, so this serves as a reasonable benchmark for me given that this is a proven load. I took the ballistic data for muzzle velocity for this load out of the Lyman black powder manual and plugged it into a ballistic calculator. It spat out that I hit the doe with about 700 ft lb at 50 yards. I know energy is not the be all and end all of what kills an animal and that the diameter of the bore is what helps us a lot with smokepoles, but it serves as a handy benchmark.

When I plug in a 50 cal PRB out of my rifle with 70 grains 3F, a 58 cal PRB with 80 grains of 2F, and a 45 cal maxi ball with 70 grains of 3F, I get right around the same 700 ft lb at 50 yards for all of them based on starting velocities in the Lyman book. 45 PRB with 70 grains of 3F pencils out at less than 600 ft lb, and the lower weight of the ball and its small diameter means it is in a different class of power. 45 PRB isn't legal for deer in my state, so this is really just to see the difference.

Out to 100 yards, you either have to jack up the charge or use a heavier projectile to get to 700 ft lb, but I have no doubt 500 with a big diameter and sufficient projectile weight would do it. The 58 PRB could use just a smidge more powder to get there, but probably has more than enough killing power with 80 grains. Any 50 grain or better conical would do it easily. I'd imagine 80 to 100 grains of powder with 50 or 54 PRB would do it. With a 45 maxi I would be cranking up the charge to the most I could shoot accurately.

Most likely I am taking the 58 for deer this year, but it looks like the 50 with 70 or more grains would do the job with PRB. I am not all that crazy about taking shots at deer with open sights much beyond 75 yards and where I hunt I really don't have to, so i think I understand pretty well what I need to be looking at in the way of charges.

 

[rodwha]

So I thought I would take one more crack at this. I shot a doe at 50 yards with a 54 round ball and although I did not make the greatest shot, she was done for depsite running 100 yards (in the right direction, so there is that). I like some margin on error in my hunting setup, so this serves as a reasonable benchmark for me given that this is a proven load. I took the ballistic data for muzzle velocity for this load out of the Lyman black powder manual and plugged it into a ballistic calculator. It spat out that I hit the doe with about 700 ft lb at 50 yards. I know energy is not the be all and end all of what kills an animal and that the diameter of the bore is what helps us a lot with smokepoles, but it serves as a handy benchmark.

When I plug in a 50 cal PRB out of my rifle with 70 grains 3F, a 58 cal PRB with 80 grains of 2F, and a 45 cal maxi ball with 70 grains of 3F, I get right around the same 700 ft lb at 50 yards for all of them based on starting velocities in the Lyman book. 45 PRB with 70 grains of 3F pencils out at less than 600 ft lb, and the lower weight of the ball and its small diameter means it is in a different class of power. 45 PRB isn't legal for deer in my state, so this is really just to see the difference.

Out to 100 yards, you either have to jack up the charge or use a heavier projectile to get to 700 ft lb, but I have no doubt 500 with a big diameter and sufficient projectile weight would do it. The 58 PRB could use just a smidge more powder to get there, but probably has more than enough killing power with 80 grains. Any 50 grain or better conical would do it easily. I'd imagine 80 to 100 grains of powder with 50 or 54 PRB would do it. With a 45 maxi I would be cranking up the charge to the most I could shoot accurately.

Most likely I am taking the 58 for deer this year, but it looks like the 50 with 70 or more grains would do the job with PRB. I am not all that crazy about taking shots at deer with open sights much beyond 75 yards and where I hunt I really don't have to, so i think I understand pretty well what I need to be looking at in the way of charges.

Talking to a LOT of people on the traditional forum who do this every year I found that a .50 cal ball is good on deer right on out to about 125 yds. After about 75 yds you tend to see caliber sized holes that exit. Up to 75 yds is when you tend to find the ball mushroomed nicely on just under the hide on the off side. Guess how much energy a ball has at 125 yds. For me it would be 376 ft/lbs. That’s about what a .44 cal revolver does with energetic powder and a ball.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Out to 110 yards and using a lightly heavier ball of 224 grains but larger diameter of .530....I've only a ball fail to exit one time. It was a contaminated load, and it still took the deer, but the ball was just under the skin on the away side. Distance was around 40 yards. Load was 70 grains of 3Fg.

LD