How much time and $$$ to get into full auto shooting?

[.455_Hunter]

Greetings,

Recently, I have been thinking about expanding my hobby into the world of full auto shooting. How much time and money does it take for a normal Colorado (not Denver) citizen to complete the process and take ownership of a full-auto weapon? What are prices like for “shootable” entry level weapons (like a STEN, Grease Gun, MAC-10 or 11)?

Any input is desired.

Thanks,

Hunter

 

[Chipperman]

Time is 4-6 months or more. Money is as much as you want to spend. The minimum would be a Mac. They are going for about $2500-3000 right now. Stens/Sterlings are about $5-6k
Grease guns are NOT entry level. They go for about $15k.

Look for what you want on Sturmgewehr or Subguns.
http://sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi
http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/...mat=headlines&website=&language=&session_key=

Find a gun you want and pay for it. The seller will transfer it to your dealer, usually on a Form 3 or 4 (unless the seller is in the same state as you). That takes 1-2 months usually.
When your dealer gets it, you can begin your Form 4. That is $200 to ATF. You need your CLEO's sig, pictures, prints, etc and snd it off.
If you are lucky, you will get the approved form back in 4-5 months.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Big Investment

WOW- Thats alot of money for some simple metal stampings.

New question- What is the scenario for short rifles (<16") and shotguns (<18")?

Hunter

 

[armymp119]

It coast me about 14,000 (enlistment bonus) to get my HK MP5 and about six months to get all the red tape done. it was not that easy for me because I moved around alot during the whole thing and my local police cheif was jerking me around. I love to shoot it if you have the time and money go for it! GOOD LUCK

 

[ACP230]

SBSs and SBRs need a $200 transfer tax paid to acquire them.

If they start with a reciever that never was finished as a rifle or shotgun they are called "Any Other Weapon" (AOW) and the tax is only $5.
Mark Serbu makes the "Serbu Super Shorty" an AOW for under $1,000.
I've seen some cut-down rifles and shotguns for $500 or $600.
The two sites listed above often have them listed for sale.
Dealers also advertise regularly in Small Arms Review and Shotgun News.

 

[Zen21Tao]

WOW- Thats alot of money for some simple metal stampings.

Thank gun grabbers for such prices. Since they can't out right ban them (due to that damned Constitution they oohh so love) they tax them to drive the prices up so that most average citizens can not afford them. Just enough example of their elitist "do as I say, not as I do" type of behavior.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

SBS/SBR/AOW's take the same paperwork as does a machinegun, thus the same timeframe for approval. The cost depends on the weapon. You can make your own from a firearm you own, saving a lot of money. You simply do a Form 1 (manufacture) instead of a Form 4 (transfer).

they tax them to drive the prices up

It isn't a tax that has driven the price up. In fact, it is just the opposite. The government will not accept payment of the tax to manufacture a machinegun for civilian transfer. That freezes the number of machineguns in circulation and that is what is driving the prices up. In reality, the number of machineguns will gradually decrease (breakage, theft, fire, loss, etc), until there are none left for transfer.

 

[RyanM]

Manufacture of new machine guns is illegal unless you're a licensed Title II manufacturer. Manufacture of a short barreled rifle or shotgun, even if it's assembled as an AOW, still costs $200. It's just that they cost $5 to transfer.

 

[boofus]

ATF approval times have sped up recently with their move to the new office. Lots of class 3 dealers have posted about improved Form 3 approval times and much better service from the new employees at NFA branch.

I think 1-2 months for a corporate or civilian Form 4 transfer is about avg now. If you are planning on getting into full auto the time to start is yesterday. The prices aren't getting any cheaper and no more can be made. The basic entry level MAC goes for $2300-3000 now. I guess around $4500 for Stens and $7000-8000 for sterlings and more for anything nicer. I expect the prices on Thompson SMGs to go up since the ATF recently ruled every single Thompson regardless of manufacturer or production date counts as a Curio & Relic. If you want something in a rifle caliber the hot deals right now are Ruger AC556's (like the A-team) or the registered sear FNCs.

www.sturmgewehr.com
www.subguns.com
www.uzitalk.com
Those are some good places to get more info on NFA goodies.

www.autoweapons.com
www.onlythebestfirearms.com
A couple of dealers, but you might consider their stuff slightly overpriced. You won't get ripped off by those guys however, like some private sellers tend to do.

 

[1KPerDay]

It isn't a tax that has driven the price up.

That's correct. The $200 tax stamp has been the same since 1934.

I got a new Cobray M-11 9mm and a suppressor (wiped) for about $1500 all told (including stamps). This was a few years ago, though.

 

[k_semler]

It isn't a tax that has driven the price up.

Nope. It was the 1968 GCA, and the 1986 FOPA that did it. I'de be happy with a repeal of the Hughes Amendment, that would at least open up the door for domestic FA manufacture and sale to civilians.

 

[Zen21Tao]

It isn't a tax that has driven the price up. In fact, it is just the opposite. The government will not accept payment of the tax to manufacture a machinegun for civilian transfer. That freezes the number of machineguns in circulation and that is what is driving the prices up. In reality, the number of machineguns will gradually decrease (breakage, theft, fire, loss, etc), until there are none left for transfer.

I stand corrected. I was trying to make the point that gun grabbers find every deceptive way they can to achieve what on out right ban would do without actually imposing such a ban. In this light you cast it this very much a direct infringement of the 2nd Amendment since an entire class of weapons is effectively being removed from private ownership. How can they be allowed to violate the 2nd so freely while at the same time retaining their 1st Amendment?