How powerful are primers?

[gamestalker]

If it cold be done, would a primer fire a .177 pellet at velocities better than 1000 fps? I figure since they can jam a bullet into a barrel, what would they do with a light weight .177 pellet, if it could be accomplished?

GS

 

[FROGO207]

Well we use 45 Colt brass modified to accept shotgun primers to propel a wax bullet with enough force to shoot through 1/2 inch gypsum board. Also there have been a couple threads of using just a primer in a 223 case to propel a .177 pellet with good accuracy in a bolt gun. Looked for the post I remembered but did not find it though.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=15315

Dixie Gunworks already sells one, but they only claim 520fps.

 

[bush3755]

Handgun primers fired in rounds without powder usually drive the bullet into the rifling.

Rifle primers usually won't do that. I've shot several rounds of handloads without powder and the bullet stayed in place by the grip of the case neck on it. Did this intentionally after reading about it in another forum.

There's a huge differene in volume between handgun and rifle cases. Which explains the reason for the above observations.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

There's a huge differene in volume between handgun and rifle cases. Which explains the reason for the above observations.

What about trying a rifle primer in a handgun case?

 

[joem1945]

"How powerful are primers?"

Powerful enough to scorch your fingers if they are in front of the case mouth and go off.

 

[rsrocket1]

The trick is to place the projectile against the flash hole of the primer. When shooting hot glue molded bullets, I've found that if I seat the bullet all they way into the case, the bullet comes out with much more force, enough to punch through one side of a cardboard box.

The problem would be to either make a pellet gun that chambers the pellet, then places the primer and seats it as close to the pellet as possible. A shotshell primer might be easier to use because you don't need to "seat it" to get the anvil in contact with the primer.

My one experience with a primer only shot was a 158g 38 special bullet shot with a primer only and chronied at 231 fps @ 10'. That's only about 18 ft-lbs energy. However, translating that to a 7g pellet, that should get you about 1090 fps just barely supersonic. The 38 bullet was seated a the normal depth so against the primer face should get you well into supersonic speed.

There is a primer chart somewhere in cyberspace that listed the energy of each primer in joules or ft-lbs, you could convert that into KE and translate it into velocity of a X-grain weight pellet.

This of course is all speculation. I don't know of any pellet/primer shooting systems.

 

[bush3755]

Some years ago, someone hooked up a BB gun barrel to a rifle action then used primed cases to shoot BBs out through a chronograph. Primers that shot BBs with the lowest average velocity shot bullets from normal maximum loads in rifles the most accurate.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html

 

[WestKentucky]

Very little difference. I have knowingly mixed primers before and fired them with no huge variation in performance. Yes they are optimized for certain purposes, no the difference is not a whole lot. I don't recommend mixing, but if they get mixed it's not the end of the world, and for the purpose of driving a pellet, unless your putting them through a tiny cartridge or even onto a purpose built barrel with a tiny chamber, you wont see much difference.

 

[fguffey]

R. Lee cautioned reloaders about primers, seems he said primers can launch off of a case, powder and bullet at about 600 feet a second. I do not haul ammo to the range in plastic bags, not out of fear but because it can happen.

F. Guffey

 

[gamestalker]

Seems to be some varying opinions on this.

RSrocket1, ya, getting the primer seated directly up against the flash hole. I was thinking if the breach was machined out so a primer could be seated into it, the bolt face would close against the primer, this might provide a good seal.

GS

 

[FROGO207]

No the wax or glue bullet is pushed into the case as far as possible and that allows the max pressure from the primer to act forcing the "bullet" out at it's max velocity using a normally seated primer. Try taking a 223 casing and indenting the neck with a center punch in 3 places around it and then slide a pellet down till it stops against the dimples. Try shooting it with the primer only. That is the gist of what they were trying IIRC.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Could be

If anyone has a .217 Bee chambered firearm, it could be tried to answer the initial question.

About the case volume, yes, it will make a difference. The larger the case, the greater the "shock absorbtion" effect of that volume on the projectile. The extra air acts as a spring and will lessen the peak pressure.

Comparable to the increased pressure you get with normally loaded ammunition (powder and all) when you seat a bullet deeper into a case.

Lost Sheep

 

[blarby]

Use federal primers, for sure.

 

[TimSr]

Speer used to make plastic pistol cases that you put a pistol primer in, and a plastic "bullet" for indoor target shooting and "routing pests". I think they launched at around 300 or 400 fps or something like that.

 

[Wil Terry]

PRIMERS are the only innately dangerous thing in handloading. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THEM !!! FEDERAL PRIMERS ARE BY FAR---FAR!!!---THE MOST DANGEROUS.
Years ago there was a primer explosion in an ammunition plant back east that killed ALL the people running the large commercial priming machines. This machinery was set up in the center of a large warehouse room. The explosion was far enough from all four walls that the walls were NOT breeched in any way. Some of the body parts were never found.
And so it goes...

 

[blarby]

PRIMERS are the only innately dangerous thing in handloading. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THEM !!! FEDERAL PRIMERS ARE BY FAR---FAR!!!---THE MOST DANGEROUS.

I concur, lol

I'm fairly certain they were the activator in the Little Boy.

 

[H&R Glock]

Ever hear a 50bmg primer go off????

I sometimes have to push out a live primer from a 30:06 or pistol cartridge. I've done a lot of them safely by just easing them out. No sweat.

In the course of loading some 50 BMG for my LAR rifle I had a case that was not sufficiently sized to chamber in the gun. I did not want to try pushing this primer out as my sizer die is built like a grenade with a very small vent hole.

Just for laughs I placed the casing on a screen atop my burn barrel and lit a match. The casing was in the flames for about a minute before it went off. It sounded like a hot 38 special firing. The casing flew about 35 feet and the primer successfully self extracted.

Since then, You would not believe how carefully I handle 50 bmg primers! They scare the out of me! One of those primers can really ruin your day if it goes off in your face.

 

[PlumRotten]

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eyeball.

 

[TexasDon]

Check these guys out.

http://jkmshells.com

They do it with 223 rem brass and 22 cal pellets.....

There are others too, don't remember at this time, but there was a few articles I was reading on the subject a while back.

TxD

 

[TexasDon]

I've made a bunch of wax and hot glue bullets with SPP and also modified 357 brass for 209's.

They have plenty of power for target shooting at close range.
I shoot them inside my shop sometimes, but I know someone will scold me on the powder/primer fumes...But it's not done much.
Used them for a mouse once in my shop...I was surprised how accurate they were!!! ( hot glue bullets molded in Lyman .358 158gn mold ) with a smear of lube before loading.

TxD

 

[jmorris]

It can and has been done.

http://convert-a-pell.com

 

[cheep]

A Win209 in a bored out 223 case with a 22 cal pellet equals approx 500 fps in my Mini14.