How reliable are automatics nowadays?

[stevekl]

I've never done a lot of thinking about automatics. I have an 870 and I enjoy casual clay busting, and I think that it would be neat to have an automatic.

The thing is, though, I like to load my own very light shells, and I worry whether or not these shells would even cycle a semiautomatic shotgun. According to Hodgdon's reloading data, the recipes that I load for my 870 are in the 7,900 to 8,200 PSI pressure levels, and they generate barely any recoil in my (albeit heavy) 870.

The question is, would shells like these even work in most automatics?

I know that if I am looking for reliability I should stick with the pump. But I'm just idly daydreaming lately about an auto. Besides, almost every auto I've ever handled is lighter and feels better than my 870, which is attractive.

 

[Creature]

Auto are reliant on the ammunition for reliable feeding. Using your "custom" light loads that you describe is asking for cycling problems.

 

[Bartkowski]

I don't have much experience with auto shotguns, but if you know someone who owns one you could go shooting with them and try out a few of your loads in their gun. And if recoil is why you load so lightly you could load the shells to be a little more powerful and not feel anymore recoil because semi's reduce recoil.

 

[stevekl]

That's a good point. I mainly load the shells lightly not because I fear recoil*, but because it's a lot less tiring to shoot them. And that's important when it's hot outside like it is nowadays.

*well that's a lie. I should have said "I don't fear recoil...to a certain point"

 

[TnShooter83]

As Creature said.

The low pressure may not be enough to properly cycle the action.
There may be some type of spring kit made for the
"older" shotguns that used a spring, instead of the gas feed system.
But I'm not sure on that. Maybe a member with more knowledge on that subject will come along.

 

[CWL]

I am not aware of any modern semiauto (sorry, but I just can't use 'automatic') reliability issues. The typical US, italian, Russian, etc. semis on the market all will work solidly if you take care of them. Semiauto Berettas are part of our military TOE and are carried & used in Iraq alongside pumps.

Because you roll your own, you may need to up your load to work a gas-operated or recoil system -but this isn't a reliabilty fault of the shotgun.

 

[GunTech]

Semiauto Berettas are part of our military TOE

Berettas, or Benellis?

I have never had a failure to function in my Benelli M1 Super 90 in the last 5 years. But I only shoot 00 buck and slugs. I have a surecycle recoil spring.

 

[DougW]

I shoot reduced recoil 00 buck and 1oz slugs, along with field loads (#8) through my Benelli M1Super90 without any malfunctions. Mine is totally reliable. So is my Remington 1100, since I replaced the trigger group (worn out shotgun!).

 

[sig226]

See if you can find someone with a Remington 1187 Clays gun. There are skeet, sporting clays, and trap models. These had a lighter spring in the action so they would cycle light loads. I had the sporting clays version and it cycled various handloaded light loads, but I'm not sure if I ever loaded anything down to the level you're using. Good luck.

 

[stevekl]

I have no problem with upping the pressure on my loads. After all, the point of reloading is that you get to tailor your loads.

So is it fair to say that I will be happy with any brand name semi auto?

 

[Slimjim]

My saiga 12 has eaten EVERYTHING ive fed it. But sence its based off an Ak, this is to be expected.

 

[stevekl]

Does Remington make an 11-87 with a walnut stock? I can't find the model on Remington's site, even though they have a picture of one with a walnut stock.

 

[Two Cold Soakers]

have no problem with upping the pressure on my loads.

Then you should be able to find a reliable autoloader that will serve you well.

Told before... My Beretta 391 went from out of the box new to 2500 +/- rounds of all kinds of loads...including a lot of green dot...and some 1 oz. loads - without a hang up. Never did try any 3/4 oz loads as I recall.

But if recoil is an issue, the semiautos soak some of that up.

Just swabbed the bbl and wiped down the outside for six months (Skeet league sporting and hunted it).

After I finally tore it down and chipped away the crust it still cycled great.

Steve,
Beretta fanboy

 

[zinj]

"Semi-Autos are unreliable" is mostly a myth/wives tale. I think it sprang from early gas-operated automatics that were not self compensating and thus were limited in the range of loads they could digest. A Browning Auto-5 (the first autoloading shotgun) will function with almost any factory load as long as the recoil system is set properly.

Another bit of history that probably contributed to this belief was the fact that up until the mid 1960s shotgun shells had paper hulls that could deform under pressure, or more commonly swell when wet. With a manual action such warped shells can be forced into the chamber, but an automatic can balk on them. Plastic hulls have essentially eliminated this problem.

Now if you are running extremely light loads you might not develop enough energy to cycle an autoloader. If that is a problem you could bump up the strength of the reloads, since an auto will lessen felt recoil significantly.

 

[throdgrain]

fwiw my Benelli M2 has fired maybe 5000 shells since I bought it, and has jammed once. Pretty good I would have thought, and 99% of those shells are clay pigeon 28gr no 8.

Incidently, my mate shoots skeet with a Auto-5, and Ive never seen that jam either.

 

[PJR]

The best gun for light loads is the Beretta 391 Sporting. I've loaded 7/8s ounce shells down to 1,150 fps in mine (about the same pressure range as described in the first post) and it has worked reliably. I've seen these same shells not work in an 1100 and a Benelli.

The various Benellis and other recoil opreated actions like the Auto-5 do not work as well as the Beretta with light loads.

 

[oletymer]

Any clean, in good condition Beretta 390 series or Remington 1100 sporting or trap gun will work fine with the loads you describe. My old Ithaca 51 trap gun shoots those loads with no problems but the gun has been discontinued for a long time.

 

[sargenv]

The other gun that will reliably cycle the 7/8 ounce loads is the Browning Gold hunter with a 3" chamber. I have one and it is happy digesting everything. The speed feed function is also pretty cool.. It is similar to the Auto-5 and it's speed feed feature.

 

[Big Az Al]

Another light loader, And A5 shooter

I am shooting a skeet league currently, with a Browning AUTO 5, 12ga.

My loads are slightly over 3/4oz using the XXL 7/8oz windjammer wads.

no problems with cycling my A5 with these loads, they even cycle 1100's.

 

[CWL]

Berettas, or Benellis?

Sorry, mistyped it. But Beretta and Benelli are the same company nowadays.

 

[throdgrain]

Not really true. Benelli are owned by Beretta, but they are still very different guns.

 

[Milkmaster]

I have both an 1100 Classic Trap and a 1100 field gun that shoots the lighter loads just fine. The trick is to use one that is chambered for 2 3/4" loads only as mine do. The lighter loads will cycle those units no problem in my experience.

 

[CWL]

Not really true. Benelli are owned by Beretta, but they are still very different guns.

I know they are run as separate companies. I meant it in the context of my original posting about reliable semiauto shotguns. It is interesting to note that Beretta took their 1201 semiauto model off the civilian market at the same time the Benelli M4 started production for both military and civilian sales. I say it is 'interesting' because the receiver looks the exact same when compared side-by-side -which I have on several occasions during shooting sessions.

I suspect that the Tooling for the Beretta is now being used for the Benelli.

Still stand by my comment that they are reliable firearms.

 

[zinj]

It is interesting to note that Beretta took their 1201 semiauto model off the civilian market at the same time the Benelli M4 started production for both military and civilian sales. I say it is 'interesting' because the receiver looks the exact same when compared side-by-side -which I have on several occasions during shooting sessions.

The Beretta 1201 is a copy of the Benelli inertia system, while the M4 uses a short stroke self-compensating gas system. Beretta probably discontinued the 1201 because competition between their brands would be counter productive.