why not semi-auto?

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StorkPatrol

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My house gun is an 870. I guess I just bought into the accepted conventional wisdom that you need a pump action for home defense. I took a shotgun course last spring and every single student had a Remington, Mossberg, or Winchester pump action. Semi-autos aren't as reliable enough, right? But lately I've been thinking about it... I carry a semi-auto handgun. If there was rioting in the streets/collapse of society/zombie apocalypse I would surely reach for one of my semi-auto rifles. So why not a semi-auto shotgun? Is the design technology just not there yet? I suppose I could spend $1500 for a Benelli M4 and hope it was money well spent. They seem to have a good reputation. For that kind of money though I could buy an 870 Express or Mossberg 500 for every room in my house. So is it that there are no acceptable semi-auto's or is it that they just aren't cost effective. Would all the 870 and 500 guys out there use semi's if they were the same price or even close in price? Your thoughts?

--Stork
 
I sure wouldn't mind using a good semi-auto if price were similar. If I could get Mossberg's semi-auto version of the 500 (I could totally be thinking 590) with a 7-round magazine new for $300 OTD, I'd e all over it and forget the 500 Persuader, though I would still like 500 because it can handle more kinds of shot and pressures without banging the gun up too bad or not cycling the action reliably (I guess that might be the biggest thing about pump over semi--ammo versatility)
 
As far as I'm concerned, the only reasons for pump shotguns over semi auto is 1) price and 2) ammo variety.

I have a tendency to short stroke under stress (the "massive" stress of busting clays) so for me I'd fell better with a semi as a HD gun.
 
Semi auto's nowadays are usually pretty reliable. After my experience with a 870 Express I've seen quite a few semi auto's that are more reliable. I think people just buy into the fact that a lot of people want to pump sound to scare intruders coupled with the fact that they are usually a few hundred cheaper.
 
as stated... you can get a good pump at a reasonable price but not necessarily the same to be said of Good semi-autos...

the maid difference just seems to be price... IMO.
 
i trained for years with the department's Rem 870 and then my personally purchased one...so my tendencies to "short stroke" the action have pretty much been worked out.

for HD i chose the FN SLP w/Ghost ring sights....reliable, faster and softer kicking
 
If I came into something like a Benelli M4 I would love it, but the the truth is, I have learned to do everything I need to with my 870. If I found a miraculous deal on a good autoloader I might give it a good hard look, but I haven't seen one lately.
 
There are certain things that can be done more effectively with a pump. Select a slug,for instance. Load one, shoot one for another. A sticky or sluggish pump sometime can be muscled into functioning, not always so with an autoloader.

Just my thinking. I have 2 870s for HD. I know them like my tongue knows my teeth, so that is really the key. If you feel the same kind of confidence in your autoloader, then that's what you should rely on.

Just my opinion. Not all will see it that way.
 
Good reliable semis are spendy, but I believe that extra edge is worth it.

When I get enough money together to buy a shiny new semi my pump is going to be relegated to backup status.
 
I have many types of SGs for different reasons ---- I keep my Mossberg with the mag tube loaded and I keep my Saiga S-12 with a full loaded clip.

Most of the semi-autos I've had { Benelli , Rem. 1100 , Saiga , H&K , Win. --- have been very reliable and I would not thing twice about useing them in SD if I had to.

I think the semi-auto would be used more except for price and the fact you do have to do a little more maintanence to them to keep them reliable.

DSC00862.jpg
DSC01678.jpg
 
I was in a gun shop a couple weeks ago and a customer said he wanted a semi-auto 12 gauge for HD. The salesman said, "no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling." And the discussion continued, and the shop owner came over and said "no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling. Trust me I used to each this stuff."

It's just one shop owner's opinion. I don't really have an opinion, except practice, practice, practice. Aside from learning to control the gun so you don't shoot the ceiling, you'll learn if the gun is trustworthy or not.
 
There's no reason a semi would be more likely than a pump to put the 2nd shot on the ceiling. It depends on how the shooter handles it. Mine is set up so I have a better grip on the gun (the front grip helps me hold the barrel on target much better than the stock grip). This gun recoils less than my pump 16 gauge shotgun and I would feel more comfortable with it in a HD situation.

DSCF2391.jpg

I definitely agree with everyone who say you need to know the gun and fire it a lot to make sure it works. This gun wouldn't feed or eject much of anything at first, but within a hundred rounds or so everything wore in nicely and I've had absolutely no problems with it since. Go out, Shoot, and use the one you're most comfortable with.
 
I use a semi auto for HD, also own a Remington 870 MM. For me, my Beretta 1201fp is lighter and naturally aims faster than the 870, it is also more accurate and patterns better for me and my ammo choices.

Functioned fine last weekend when I took it to the range. As long as I take care of it, it has never given me any problems.
 
Why not semiauto for an HD shotgun?

I'd only trust certain semiautos for HD, and they tend not to be cheap.

An 870 is a good, reliable shotgun, that's cheap. Ditto for a 500.

Some of us don't want to tie up $1500 in a shotgun that sits in the corner, when we could use that $1500 to buy a nice upland gun, a match-grade 1911, a top-notch hunting rifle, an upgraded AR, a very nice Sharps replica, or a good antique double...:D

And honestly, if a problem can't be solved with 5 rounds of 00 Buck from an 870, then a shotgun isn't my first choice of weapons, anyway. While the shotgun may be the firearm of choice for one-shot stops, there are other guns that I'd prefer for sustained combat.:p

My house isn't big enough to fight WW III in, anyway.:)
 
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The biggest disadvantage of a semi-auto is cost. The good ones are spendy.

The second biggest disadvantage is reliability. Due to the vast variety of shotgun ammunition available, from birdshot, to buckshot, to slugs, to all sorts of oddball rounds, there's no way to know if a particular shotgun will run all ammo reliably. The best you can do is find a model with a reputation for a widespread reliability, and then test it in your shotgun.
 
My Remington 1100 has gone just under 1000 rounds since the last time I cleaned it, with zero failures. I've also run a couple hundred through it dirty and dry before with zero failures. I eventually feel neglectful and lubricate it, but I'm sure it could run much longer.

This is all with bulk Federal birdshot, which makes it even more impressive. The buck and slugs that I would use for defense would provide a bit more gas to get the gears moving.

Granted, it is particular about the Federal birdshot loads. I have had problems with the gun cycling when using Winchester loads. Justin's words above are wise ones to follow.
 
mossberg 930spx got mine for 565$ and love it doesnt like winchester or fed bridshot loads (low base target ones) anything high base works everytime i have about 400rounds thru mine of which 6 hung up (low base birdshot)

as for high base i have shot 200 rounds with not so much as a hiccup

as for the 2nd round going thru the ceiling? haha not so much i can dump 8 rounds of 00buck all center mass in 3 seconds flat, 5 seconds using 3'' mags

the 930 is the poor mans SLP and one of the best semi's i've seen.
 
I was in a gun shop a couple weeks ago and a customer said he wanted a semi-auto 12 gauge for HD. The salesman said, "no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling." And the discussion continued, and the shop owner came over and said "no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling. Trust me I used to each this stuff."
Click to expand...

I got to agree that is total BS !!! Anyone over 4 feet tall and 100 LBs. can shoot a 12ga. fassst ---- like AT LEAST 5 rds. in 6-8 sec. ----- useing Win. 00 Buck my best time for clearing a table of 5 Bowling Pins is 2.2 seconds.
 
"no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling."
Click to expand...

LOL

Funny, but I've fired four shots on one swing, shooting at a wild-flushing pheasant that I just wanted to make sure I put down since it went into a glide instead of a drop. The recoil never broke my swing, and all the shots went where I wanted them to, really fast.

High-brass pheasant loads kick at least as much as reasonable self-defense buckshot loads.
 
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Both the pump and semi have advantages and disadvantages. The semi is less tolerant of abuse and neglect, can be fussy on ammo and is generally more expensive.

The pump can shoot a wider range of shells, tolerates considerable neglect, less expensive but requires a greater degree of operator proficiency.

I use a pump for serious duties but only because I shoot pumps regularly otherwise I'd probably select a semi-automatic.
 
Truly reliable autoloaders are still a fairly new thing but I'm willing to bet that we'll see a lot of folks switching over from pumps over the next decade or two.
 
The salesman said, "no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling." And the discussion continued, and the shop owner came over and said "no, no, bad idea, the second shot will end up the ceiling. Trust me I used to each this stuff."
Click to expand...

I can only imagine that neither of them have ever shot a semi or seen one shot. Sadly gun shops are often bastions of misinformation.

Anyone over 4 feet tall and 100 LBs. can shoot a 12ga. fassst ---- like AT LEAST 5 rds. in 6-8 sec.
Click to expand...

She does six in seven seconds and I do not get the impression she is trying to be particularly fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlPEvqbuRKI

I can shoot 11 aimed shots in less than that with my S12. Just trying to shoot as fast I can and keep it on one target probably takes about 3 seconds to dump a 10 round mag.

I've seen guys unload a 20 round drum in that time.

Granted the gun in video below has a good brake out front but he it should help in making the point others have above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpMvj-v3_w

One more if anyone is still doubting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MahA82t934&feature=related

And some Benelli

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3B3PTW9NWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cy3jA8y_3U&feature=related
 
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