Shotgun for Home Defense. Pump vs. Auto - your opinion.

[Megawatt]

I own a few guns for self defense consisting of Sig P226, S&W Mod. 66-4", S&W Mod. 10-6", SKS Rifle and finally a SMITH AND WESSON EASTFIELD MOD. 916-A shotgun. I feel comfortable with everything except the shotgun since reading so many negative comments here about the 916-A. I would like to replace the Mod. 916A with something very reliable and after doing research here it is obvious that the proven and most popular shotgun is the Remington 870, among others.

My concern is Pump Vs. Auto Loader. If I was to be unfortunate enough to have 2 or 3 armed bad guys enter my home, the split second of time it takes to "pump" another shell into the chamber could give a bad guy time to hit me whereas an auto loader would be more rapid fire and I might just be able to take out all 3 with rapid fire before they even have time to think. With a pump, a person has to THINK about "pumping" the next round whereas with an autoloader all you have to do is pull the trigger. To me, a pump shotgun is like having a single action pistol that you have to cock everytime to shoot. I am not ruling out or "bad mouthing" pumps but just trying to make the right decision.

So, what is your opinion on pump vs. auto loader for defense and why? If I get a pump it will probably be the 870. Are there any reliability issues with auto loaders like feeding or extraction problems, etc.? Is maintenance and upkeep more involved on auto loaders? Are there any problems with auto loaders where I should avoid them and get a pump? I know the 870 is a fantastic pump. If I get an auto loader, I would want one with as good or better reputation as the Remington 870. What, in your opinion, would be the best auto loader that is as great as the 870 pump, if any? I want a short barrel, 18", and that can shoot any type of high powered ammo., 2 3/4" to 3" shells , easy to maintain, well made with a PROVEN track record, and VERY DEPENDABLE. I hope I can get some great recommendations here from the experts along with ball park prices of the shotguns recommended. If you have any other information that I need to consider before purchasing, please tell me. Thanks for your help.

 

[Steel Talon]

870 pump! here.. #4buck for predator control

 

[Banta]

My guess is if you had 2 or 3 armed guys bursting into your house and you started shooting, you would end up getting shot regardless of what type of gun. Probably only in the movies can someone pick off a few armed guys without getting shot himself.

I would go with a pump action for the simple, reliable design with a 14" barrel. That's my next gun.

 

[Regolith]

It depends. Auto is good for exactly what you stated: quick follow up shots. Most auto shotguns also kick less than most pump shotguns, because the system uses some of the shot's energy to load the next round. This allows for the follow up shot to be more easily placed on target. However, they're not as reliable as pumps, and jam more often. If it is a gas autoloader then maintanence will be a bit more involved as you will have to clean the gas system somewhat regularly.

Pump shotguns are cheap and reliable. For the most part, pumps shouldn't fail to feed. Ever. They're the revolver of shotguns.

My suggestion, is if you have the money, go with a good auto shotgun. Something like a Benneli M series or Remington 1100. Otherwise, go with the 870.

 

[sm]

.

 

[spartan55]

Winchester 1300 pump 00 Buck and a few slugs

 

[alucard0822]

I would suggest the 870pump w 18" barrel (Banta, being one of our neighbors up north can get a 14" shorty without our NFA hassle)
and #4 or 00 buck, it will go boom every time without fail, and they make nearly everything under the sun for them.

If you really want a good auto, then the 1100 would be my suggestion, but what is wrong with using the SKS? It is reliable with 10 light recoiling rounds at the ready, and you can probably light off all 10 accurately faster than 5 loads of buck in the 1100, plus you appear to already be comfortable with it (all 4 other HD guns), and you even have a bayonet for when you are out of ammo and the zombies keep coming

 

[Chris Rhines]

My concern is Pump Vs. Auto Loader. If I was to be unfortunate enough to have 2 or 3 armed bad guys enter my home, the split second of time it takes to "pump" another shell into the chamber could give a bad guy time to hit me whereas an auto loader would be more rapid fire and I might just be able to take out all 3 with rapid fire before they even have time to think.

Okay, if you get nothing else from this post, get this and for Kismet's sake, take it to heart: Your shot-to-shot split time is going to depend much less on the gun, and much more on how well you are trained with whatever you choose. A skilled shooter with a pump-action shotgun will outrun a tyro with an autoloader every time.

With a pump, a person has to THINK about "pumping" the next round whereas with an autoloader all you have to do is pull the trigger.

This is where the training comes in. You should have so many rounds through your shotgun that you don't have to think about working the slide; you just work the slide and engage the next target, subconsciously.

Are there any reliability issues with auto loaders like feeding or extraction problems, etc.? Is maintenance and upkeep more involved on auto loaders?

There can be, and sometimes. Gas-operated autoloaders (Remington 1100 and 11-87, for instance) can require maintenence and part replacement at fairly regular intervals. Inertia-driven autoloaders, like the Benelli M2, are very reliable even with minimal cleaning and upkeep. Again, with regular practice and training, any little hitches or quirks in your chosen gun's operating will soon make themselves known.

As an aside, pump shotguns are not the be-all-end-all for reliability either. I've seen numerous pump guns from different makers (including the vaunted Remington 870) fail under hard use - shell latches coming unstaked, bent action bars, cracked vent ribs, beads falling out, broken extractors. All guns can fail, and if you have a gun that hasn't failed, you haven't been shooting it enough.


Specific advice: Find a good gunstore that has a large selection of short-barreled shotguns, even if you have to drive some distance. Don't bother asking the opinions of the gunstore staff - most gun shop employees know very little about guns and shooting. Instead, look over the shotguns yourself. Are they simple to load and unload quickly? Do they mount quickly and smoothly, or do you have to contort your head and upper body to get into a shooting position? Do they have good (or at least decent) triggers?

Buy the shotgun that fits you the best, and buy about 1000 rounds (4 cases, about $200 worth where I live) of high-brass birdshot to go with it. Go out and shoot it. Try to find a place to shoot reactive targets, things that fall over or break or go "DING!" when you hit it. Shoot multiple targets, multiple shots on one target, different shooting positions, etc. Shooting skeet, trap, and other clay games is a good way to get some practice in.

If you find the shotgun malfunctions a lot, take it back to the store and get it repaired or replaced. If you find the shotgun is uncomfortable to shoot, either return it or ask about a gunsmith who can fit the stock for you.

After you run through that thousand rounds, you'll know your shotgun inside and out, which is what you want for a self-defense gun.

- Chris

Oh, one more thing:

My guess is if you had 2 or 3 armed guys bursting into your house and you started shooting, you would end up getting shot regardless of what type of gun.

That is by no means a foregone conclusion. But again, everyone repeat it with me, "You have to be well trained with your weapon of choice!

 

[SecondAmend]

This is what I use for HD. It's an 18", 6+1 capacity. Bought it new for $365 w/ pistol grip and folding stock.

 

[Chilean]

Try a good pump, maybe an 870 Police

 

[MassMark]

Everything has the potential for failure - everything - including pump shotguns, (ask me how I know). The choice of which is "better" will be up to you. If you choose a cheap "no name" autoloader or a cheap "no name" pump, you increase your risk for failure.

My personal choice is a Benelli Super-90. It is by far the most reliable multi-round shotgun I have owned. It has literally never jammed in a couple thousand rounds or various fodder, (from mild to wild).

Chris Rhines post should be read and re-read until it burns into your memory chip. No matter what you choose, you must train and train often. As far as being "quick on the pump" it can be done with training, though I'd love to see someone out shoot a Benelli with a pump and do so with accuracy. I'm no competition shooter, but the Super-90 is a tough follow-up shot to beat with a pump gun....

If you choose a pump gun however, you will be amazed at just how fast those follow-up shots will come if you train, train, train....It will become muscle memory to the nth degree....

 

[GunTech]

Auto. Under pressure you don;t have to worry about short-cycling the action, and have a faster follow up shot. It's also easier to use one handed.

My 10.5 inch Benelli.

 

[Dave McCracken]

My choice, an 870. However....

Either will do if the operator has run enough shells through it that he/she can operate it effectively in the dark, 10 seconds out of a sound sleep. for he/she may need to very much.

Hardware is simple. Get the software up to speed.....

 

[Catalina]

Either one. It does not really matter. Tactics & execution matter 1,000% more than pump versus auto shotgun.

 

[10-Ring]

I inherited a Winchester Defender several years ago. Over the years, I've put several 100 rounds through it -- IMO, there is just something about the simplicity of a pump shotgun for HD.

 

[PJR]

The comments about the right tactics is right on. If you have a plan and have considered some scenarios then you are further ahead regardless which configuration you choose.

Pump guns rarely fail on their own. Problems are operator induced. Semi-autos are more dependent upon the ammo and maintenance.

If you like to shoot and practice with a pump gun to the point where its operation is natural for you UNDER STRESS then nothing is better. If you don't shoot a lot then a reliable semi-auto that is properly maintained and loaded with ammo of sufficient power is probably a better choice.

I've used both at various times. My choice today is an 870.

 

[Speer]

It ain't what you got, it's what you can do with it. That said, I'm better with the auto loaders. Short stroking is the bane of the pump.

 

[silverlance]

benelli m1 super 90. benelli factory PG stock, standard 5+1 magazine. unbelievably lightweight and unbelievably reliable.

for a pump action, i use a mossberg 590 sp with the knoxx sidewinder kit.

---

if i lived in a state other than california, i would still put the benelli at the top of my list, but the saiga 12 would be second.

i personally do not like pumps very much. short stroking, release button, etc... no good for me.

 

[Durby]

I shoot 3-1/2 inch pumps for hunting, first a garbage Charles Daly that I fixed the shell catches in the mag tube with JB Weld (still works) and the forend broke where the action bar is held in, and now I only shoot my 870 super mag (dont get the super mag for HD, it just complicates things). I short stroke it once in a blue moon, but I am so familiar with my gun that it doesn't slow me down too much, and I don't have to think about it. I've seen so many autos that are picky about what shells you put through them, and duck hunting seems to test guns pretty good. I'm a big fan of owning a lot of guns, but being extremely well practiced and familiar with one of them can't be beat. My 870 sits out in the rain all duck season, gets dropped, dirty, etc. My dad's auto had the gas piston freeze up under the same conditions...

 

[Zeede]

As others have mentioned, how many rounds of ammo you've trained yourself with matters way more than the way the shotgun loads the next round. If you have to think to pump the next round into the chamber when you're practicing some rapid fire at the range, you haven't shot it enough.

Now, that said, since you've stated that you don't intend to use the gun for any of the clay sports, you're going to want something really reliable, and that means buying something from a quality company. Home defense weapons will be used rarely (hopefully never) and you want to be *sure* it goes bang when you need it. A quality pump will generally be cheaper than a quality autoloader. Note that in either case, you are going to have to be familiar w/ how to clean and maintain the shotgun, because as many have stated, you are going to be putting enough rounds through it that it'll need cleaning, pump, inertia-driven, or gas-operated.

The only clear advantage a pump has over an autoloader is the potential for deterence simply by pumping the first round into the chamber. That click-clack is so well-known now from movies, television and video games that sometimes it'll send the bad guys running by itself. Now some autoloaders make a loud noise when you press the button to load the first round, but the pump of a shotgun is more distinct. If he hears it, and is in a state of mind to give a damn, he's going to think twice about going through with whatever he intended when he broke in.

Cameron

P.S. Note that 00 buckshot will penetrate several walls, and smaller shot won't reliably stop a bad guy. Do you live in an apartment? Do you have brick in your outer walls or something similar that would stop the rounds from penetrating to your neighbors?

 

[MassMark]

The only clear advantage a pump has over an autoloader is the potential for deterence simply by pumping the first round into the chamber. That click-clack is so well-known now from movies, television and video games that sometimes it'll send the bad guys running by itself. Now some autoloaders make a loud noise when you press the button to load the first round, but the pump of a shotgun is more distinct. If he hears it, and is in a state of mind to give a damn, he's going to think twice about going through with whatever he intended when he broke in.

I'm of the belief that the "click-clack" can get you killed....If a Bad guy enters my home with intent to do harm to myself or my family, the only sound he'll hear is BOOM...Just my opinion - but I'm sticking to it.

 

[glocktoberfest]

I vote 12 gage pump . 00 BS .

 

[GunTech]

MassMark,

I agree 100%.

#4 buck, or even smaller pellets will work very well at room length, with less danger of overpenetration. The disadvantage of small pellets is that they lose energy quickly - not much of an issue at 10 feet. However, it is noce to have options. For inside defense, I think #4 shot is a good compromise.

 

[Alphazulu6]

870 Pump action ( or Winchester 1200/1300, etc) all are good.

I would agree with an automatic as a home defense gun as long as its an 1100. If its not an 1100, then no stick with pumps.

 

[CWL]

Chris Rhines said it all, it depends on the Operator not the gun.

My shotgun trainer can work his Remmy 870 faster than I can work my Beretta semiauto. We both work our guns at the speed necessary to hit our targets.