Shotgun for Home Defense. Pump vs. Auto - your opinion.

[rantingredneck]

Since I have small kids at home I keep mine firing pin down on an empty chamber. I leave it out of the safe at night so it'll be readily accessible, I just don't want it that ready to go if one of the kids gets up in the middle of the night and wanders into our bedroom

 

[Chuck R.]

Am I the only one who keeps his shotgun C1?

No, my Benelli M1 is stored C1 in a locked V-Line gun case with push button simplex lock. I don’t subscribe to the racking noise theory.

As for auto Vs pump, I believe it’s better to go with what you’re used to. I hunt waterfowl with a Benelli SBE so the M1S90 is a natural choice for a HD gun. I figure I load, unload, chamber and clear my SBE enough times in the dark before and after hunting for it to benefit me for my HD gun.

My thoughts run kind of counter from most guys when it comes to pump Vs auto when it comes to reliability. I’ve owned semis all my life and have never had a problem with a quality gun that is properly maintained using good ammo. I have however short shucked a pump several times when shooting in awkward positions, IE a layout boat or blind. Just try pumping while laying on your back with a left to right target swing. I’ve also taken a couple tactical shotgun classes and seen plenty of short shucked guns during those too. So for me, with the human operator added into the equation, I find the auto more reliable.

Some of the other benefits of an auto are the ability to fire repeatedly one handed and also fired easily in awkward positions IE prone. Again I think that experience, what you’re used to, and will train with, trump the actual system.

Chuck

 

[Zach S]

With a pump, a person has to THINK about "pumping" the next round whereas with an autoloader all you have to do is pull the trigger.

Not true, with some practice, its second nature. So second nature that I try to pump autos. So, an auto is actually slower for me.

Am I the only one who keeps his shotgun C1?

No

 

[MCgunner]

Why does it have to be tacticool? I like old school. Hard to jam a side by side and I think 2 rounds is plenty.

Not true, with some practice, its second nature. So second nature that I try to pump autos. So, an auto is actually slower for me.

I have a semi auto and a pump I duck hunt with. I pump the pump naturally, but because the auto is so soft on the shoulder, I'm much, much faster on repeat shots with the auto regardless of the fact that I've been shooting a pump nearly 50 years now, started at age 7 with a JC Higgins .410.

 

[DawgFvr]

Agreed! I watched a guy with an old "Davis" wooden tennis racket just thrash all comers with their fancy light weight carbon fiber, state of the art rackets. Remember "Tin Cup" and the way he tore up the course with an entrenching tool...and all those guys with their expensive golf clubs. It's not the tool...it's the operator of the tool that makes it so lethal.

 

[MassMark]

That's good to hear. I subscribe to the school that am empty chamber is a bad thing - especially in a home defense weapon. The only empty chamber guns in my house are the ones in the safe that I don't plan on using to defend my life. Racking anything, (pistol, shotgun, rifle), does little more in my mind that give your position away and in a heightened state of stress, give you one more thing to pooch up...Pushing a safety button seems to have a lot shorter travel than racking a slide - any slide. If it's meant to defend my life and my family, it's C1 24/7.....

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Why does it have to be tacticool? I like old school. Hard to jam a side by side and I think 2 rounds is plenty.

Me likey.

 

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I have a Mossberg 500 A persuader that I use for home defense. (My AK is a little too much for home defense) It is a pump action, 18.5 inch barrel, with a pistol grip.

Put yourself in the position of a criminal. Now imagine breaking into someones house, it's all dark and quiet. You slowly make your way inside and all of a sudden you hear a shotgun action being pumped. Keep in mind the psychological affect of this and the thoughts going through your mind after you hear it.

That sound will make most intruders have second thoughts, but if they are also armed it may not matter. An autoloader will allow you to take out more "opponents" quicker than a pump as well as baffle those still standing as you make your way toward them.

 

[Fred Fuller]

An autoloader will allow you to take out more "opponents" quicker than a pump...

How so?

lpl/nc

 

[MCgunner]

You slowly make your way inside and all of a sudden you hear a shotgun action being pumped. Keep in mind the psychological affect of this and the thoughts going through your mind after you hear it.

I'm thinkin' that's not nearly the shock of starin' down the twin tubes of a side by side, frankly. That's sorta like starin' death in the face. And, your wife won't have to worry about short strokin' it in her moment of fear.

 

[boomstik45]

Is condition one as safe for a shotgun as it is for a pistol? I know my glock won't fire while loaded and ready to fire if it's dropped. So my question is simply: will a shotgun fire if the chamber is loaded and the gun is ready to go...if it's dropped from chest or shoulder high? Will it matter if it's dropped on it's stock or on it's side? If that's not a problem, then by all means, keep the gun condition one. I'm serious about that question, I really don't know if an 870 or 1100 (or any other shotgun) is susceptible to firing when dropped.

As for "racking" anything at all, it would seem to me that a sound tactical practice would be to acquire the weapon, rack the slide, then go to a position of cover. I don't see the point of racking the slide and staying put or racking the slide once getting to a position of cover from which you will begin your defense. Seems to me that it makes more sense to get your hands on the weapon, charge it if it isn't (for whatever reason) and move to cover, all as fluidly as possible. My pistols are always kept chambered and ready to fire.

 

[leadcounsel]

Semi auto for reliability, durability and weight reduction.

 

[ronto]

Get a pump for HD...Hit 1 BG with 00 Buck and you'll probably have to shoot the other 1 or 2 BG's in the back if you deem it appropriate in the circumstances.

 

[elkhuntingfool]

Talk about over analyzing....

Pump/Auto - what does it really matter? 2-3 BG's in your house - you'll get off one or two shots until those 2-3 BGs have shot you dead. I'm guessing at that point you won't be second guessing your choice.

Or, in reality, when they hear you rack the pump, they'll run out of your house screaming like little sissies - then you have leveled the playing field.

 

[[email protected]]

Lee: An autoloader will be faster than a pump to most people faced with an intruder. They will be pumped full of adrenalin and shaking from fear that they can pull the trigger faster without fumbling with the action. Again this is refering to the average person and not the experienced shooter that can control their emotions during these times.

I meant no offense to us pump owners who have them and who have the skill to proficiently use them. I was just pointing out the "average" persons abilities during stressful times.

MCgunner: You have a VERY valid point. I was only pointing out the psychological affect of the "sound" of a pump action. The "sight" of a barrel (or barrels) in your face will DEFINATLY shall we say...fill the pants with poo!

 

[Fred Fuller]

ucfd_cyclist,

I would refer you to the quotes in my SIG.

The question is almost never hardware- it is SOFTWARE. The issue is getting hot lead on target, and that is almost totally an issue of training, skillsets and self discipline, not one that is hardware dependent. Any person who will fumble a pumpgun under stress is just as likely to fumble a semiauto- I know of far too many instances, for example, where a person groping under pressure for the safety on a semiauto pistol has instead hit the magazine release. Not as likely with shotguns as handguns, I know, but illustrative of the problem nonetheless.

It is IMHO a disservice to any budding defensive shooter to offer hardware as a panacea, as a substitute to training and practice and developing skills. The idea that one can, as sm/Steve so often puts it, "buy skills and targets" simply by purchasing a different sort of gun, or some different accessory or other to bolt onto an existing gun, is anathema to me.

We will simply have to agree to disagree on the matter, it seems.

Regards,

lpl/nc

 

[don]

Old model 12 winchester. Pull trigger, hold back trigger and pump. Fires every time I pump.Is this normal or is it necessary to pull the trigger every time you pump with most pump guns?

 

[Dave McCracken]

Don, like the Model 97 and Ithaca's early Model 37s, one can fan fire by doig just that. It's quite easy. Harder is to hit when doing so.

 

[GunTech]

Yep. Shotguns without disconnectors have their own problems. Hitting anything while fast pumping is a trick, particularly with serious sociual ammo like 00 buck. I've also seen more ND with Model 12s and 97 than any other shotgun. That being said, there is nothing so cool as a fully rigged out 97 trench gun, IMO.

I like the SS, although I'd go for external 'rabbit ear' hammers, just for nostalgia's sake. There are a variety of short barreled 'coach guns' that can be had for a decent price, and they certainly have there own 'fear' factor. Thanks to Hollywood, every criminal knows that with a cut down double, even with the eyesight and coordination of Mr. Magoo, you can take out the front line of a pro football team.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Well, I'm gonna go against the grain and suggest a Saiga 12 gauge. It comes with a 5 round detachable mag, or you can get a 10 round mag as well. Works extremely well. You can get it "tacticool" for very little extra money.

 

[al1599]

870 pump here. A semi would be nice but hearing the racking of a pump is music to my ears.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

As much as I trust my Benelli not to fail, I keep my 870 as my "goto" gun. I think its because the controls are much simpler, just the little slide release under the triggger guard, the safety and the trigger.

IMO the bolt release bolt hold open buttons could just get confusing. Also, I can check the chamer with my weak sided arm still on the forearm, while with the Benelli I need to open it with my right and check it with my left(its dark foo!).

 

[czbegenner]

The main thing to remember is not which Shotgun , but which one you can handle and train with. Let's face it if you dont do any traning with it , then its
no good.Fire the weapon you choose as much as possible try different positions if you can find a bulding that you can use and dry fire the shotgun
moving from room to room, having doors closed and then trying to open them
span each room one at a time. this is a way you can learn your shotgun.Remember situations change and you have to improvise, adapt and overcome

 

[MCgunner]

A bonus to my side-by-side, I'm going to be pulling the cylinder choke out of the left barrel soon and screwin' in the full and loading up with AA 7 1/2 and killin' those pesky, tasty doves that infest the area down here. IC for the close shots, full for the last ditch prayer back ups and longish passing shots. That sort of thing isn't easy to do with a dedicated tacticool gun. I'm a hunter than happens to have a shotgun in his bedroom. LOL I've never killed a man or took a shotgun course, but I could fill the bed of your F250 with all the birds I've shot over the last 40 years. I can handle a shotgun just fine.

John Browning might have invented the auto loader, but God, himself, invented the side-by-side, I'm convinced.

 

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Smith & Wesson 916A question

I have an older model Smith and Wesson 916A. I am wondering if a longer barrel was available to interchange with the riot size barrel. The serial # is 8B45XX. Thanks.