How to avoid hassles with the TSA and still have a self-defense firearm when needed?

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Shadan7

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I was wondering whether an idea I had would work, if the practice became accepted widely enough. Thought I’d toss it out for consideration. Feel free to comment here, or post/link it elsewhere.

Let’s say you travel by air a fair amount, but not all the time. Let’s say you have a concealed-carry permit which is widely honored in the areas where you travel. Let’s say that you don’t want to have to hassle with the TSA protocols for shipping a firearm (though as I have written previously, there are advantages to doing so). You just want basic protection. But you want basic protection that you are familiar with, and which you are already comfortable carrying.

So, how about you pack your carry holster set-up (whatever it may be) for a type of gun you know and are reasonably sure you could find just about anywhere. It could be just a J-frame, or whatever variety of Glock you like and is fairly universal, maybe a basic 1911 or perhaps an LCP. Whatever. You get to your destination, swing by a large gun shop, and buy one of such gun and a box of shells. Jump through the 4473 hoops, and in 15 minutes you’re out the door with a gun which you’ve never actually shot before, but which you know. You’ve just got a gun there on hand in less time it would take to check and then reclaim your gun at the airport(s).

Simple enough so far. But here’s the other part of the idea: the gun shop will buy back that gun from you at the end of your trip, for close to what you paid for it. Say they make $30 – $50 on the deal, about the same as what they’d make on a simple transfer (and not much more than you’d spend for an extra bag when flying with your own gun). The gun hasn’t been shot. And so long as you take reasonable precautions with it for a couple of days, it incurs no real wear. It is, for all intents and purposes, still brand new.

Would this work? All local and federal laws would be complied with. You save yourself some time and hassle. The shop makes a bit of money, earns good will, and still has a gun they can sell. A network of shops participating in such a service around the country would likely generate increased business.

Thoughts?

Jim Downey

(Cross posted from the BBTI blog.)
 
I'd rather not carry a gun that I haven't fired. It could be defective from the factory. I'd rather find that out at the range than when bullets are flying at me or someone is bearing down on me with a knife.
 
You have thought this out. The problem is the TSA is a lot like the ATF. They have no reason to negotiate and they won't. Americans have given up their freedom for security (seem to remember an old quote about that) in mass. Nice thinking but I'm afraid this is like trying to reopen the MG registry.
 
That would work if the GCA-68 laws did not prevent you from buying a handgun from a state not your own. I believe we are all restricted from buying handguns outside our own state, or contigeous states (with a special form at the dealer's), so if you went from Maine to Ohio, for instance, you could not buy a handgun from a dealer in Ohio or a private citizen from Ohio (like at a gun show).
 
Not everyplace will allow you to walk out the door with a handgun if you are not a resident, even if your CCW is honored. IMO, just pack the gun in your suitcase - a handgun is a LOT easier to deal with than a longarm - both from breakage and a theft perspective
 
Yeah, MG, my solution has been to basically stop flying - just drive. No hassles with my CCW, and with the bs security theatre delays, it usually takes at least a day to get anywhere anyway. But that's not always practical.

Alex45ACP - I tend to agree, but for this kind of situation I would be comfortable getting say a J-frame, which I can be pretty sure is going to work right from the factory. Others feel the same way about their Glocks or other guns.
 
I may be wrong here, but from my undersdtanding. If you buy a gun in Minnesota and you don't live here they won't give you the gun, it has to shipped to a FFL in your own state. So I don't think your idea would work in Minnesota.
 
Why do you think the gun store would even buy the gun back? The sale is final at most shops as far as I know and only loosing about $30 is very unrealistic. If they even bought it back at all the amount would be much more, at least it would if I owned the shop. You might want to locate a firing range that rents guns and see if it is possible with them. At least you would know the gun has a track record of being somewhat reliable.
 
OK, interesting info from you guys - I didn't realize that there was a limitation on buying from an FFL out of state like that, but then I've never tried to do so. Yeah, if that is the case, it'd kill this idea completely. Thanks!
 
Yeah, MG, my solution has been to basically stop flying - just drive. No hassles with my CCW, and with the bs security theatre delays, it usually takes at least a day to get anywhere anyway. But that's not always practical.

My sentiments exactly!
 
A poor idea.
Besides the interstate issue, you want to risk your life on a gun you don't know will fire?
Years ago I knew a fellow officer in the days before my state required academy attendance prior to working the street. We had a year's leeway after hiring on to get an academy slot.
He worked the street for several months with his brand new handgun, foolishly without ever testing it at all, and when he got to the academy finally he was astounded to discover his gun would not fire.

As far as the $30-$50 loss on returning the gun goes, I suspect it'd be much more than that, into the area of 30-40% of what you paid for it.
Fired or not.

Denis
 
I just pack everything but the firearm and mags until I get to the airport. Disarm in the exterior of the building while getting bags from the cars and pack everything up right.

Get to destination, unpack and re-arm in first public restroom outside of the secure "sterile" area.

The only place I'm unarmed is the terminal itself and the plane. That's about as good as it gets.
 
The gun hasn’t been shot. And so long as you take reasonable precautions with it for a couple of days, it incurs no real wear. It is, for all intents and purposes, still brand new.

Another point, once a firearm is sold and registered I don't think any store can sell it as a new gun.
 
Without reading all of the posts,

When was the last time you traded a gun back and only ate $50?

Yes, some guns are better than others, but I'm not trusting my life to a gun I haven't thoroughly test-fired with the ammo and magazines I will be carrying.

You can't buy a gun hassle-free out of state. Try it sometime.

When I travel, it's all I can do to keep my timelines correct. Bookending my trip with; "Go buy a gun" and "Go trade a gun in" doesn't sound like making life easier.

If you REALLY think this is easier than checking the gun with your luggage, try it once and tell us how it works out.
 
1 - There is an unconstitutional infringement on your right to keep and bear arms which prevents you from buying a handgun outside your state of residence
2 - Guns need to be tested, only a fool would trust a gun fresh from under the glass
3 - Gun shops aren't a public service, they're not waiting around hoping someone will come in to sell in every piece of hardware a week after buying. If I owned a gun shop and you tried such a stunt, I'd give you $5 for the gun, what are you going to do, complain online?
 
gun shops aren't a public service, they're not waiting around hoping someone will come in to sell in every piece of hardware a week after buying. If i owned a gun shop and you tried such a stunt, i'd give you $5 for the gun, what are you going to do, complain online?
+1 :D
 
Well, I was thinking in larger terms than just a single transaction - which is why I was curious whether such a network could be established around the country of shops participating in these kinds of "sales" - the idea being that this kind of service would be something of a loss-leader to get more traffic into their stores. I'm always surprised that gun shops tend to think in purely short-term ways, to be honest.

But it's a moot point, given that evidently the laws kill the idea.

Jim D.
 
I have to disagree with both your points:

1) Driving out of your way to a gun shop to buy a gun, fill out that paperwork, then drive back out of your way to return it, is going to take WAY longer than the ten minutes it takes to check in a pistol at the airport.

2) The pistol would not be "new" and could not be resold as such.

I don't "like" checking my pistol, but unless they set up a rental booth that dispenses well-tested guns in baggage claim, I think it will always be by far the best option.
 
Ship it from your home "next day delivery" to yourself c/o the Fedex station address, to be held at a fedex station near or at your destination airport, cab over, sign for your "package", and proceed. Then ship it back to your home after use or before you fly. Even if not specifically prescribed for by law, this SHOULD be legal. In any case, who is going to ask? As long as you break no laws that attract (menacing, murder, discharging firearms, etc) the police, you would be as legal as "travelling with a firearm" to another state. However, if you are going to NY, or NJ, for instance, then all bets are off, as some states and locals would prohibit you even DRIVING or passing through their jurisdiction with a handgun.
 
But it's a moot point, given that evidently the laws kill the idea.

Hey, I just had an idea
Why not borrow a gun & holster from friends/family at your destination?
I wouldn't have anyone sleeping in my guestroom I couldn't toss a holstered gun to casually, if I had a guest who could legally pack in OH I'd hand them a gun, take them to the range to get used to it, and only expect them to buy their own plinking ammo, I'd even supply a magazine full of defensive ammo along with my sweaty/stinky holster. (OK, I'd lend out an all-kydex holster for this purpose)
We don't have any BS registration in OH, nor do we need specific guns on out permit (what kind of asshat concept is that anyway?) ... there would be no legitimate liability to me loaning a gun to a guest with reciprocity.
 
It costs me about 10 extra minutes and no extra cost to just fly with the gun in my baggage. That seems about the easiest and cheapest solution to me.

BTW, Federal law prohibits transfer of handguns by anyone (FFL or not) to a person who is not a resident of the same state. There is no contiguous state provision. If an FFL is going to rent a handgun for use off their premises, they must do a 4473 and NICS check as well, so same state residency is a requirement for that as well.
 
Yeah, bfDave, I've done the same with my friends who are visiting. I was just thinking in terms of being someplace where you may not have those kinds of connections. SDM's idea is another option I may look into further if and when it's an issue - mostly, this was just general brainstorming on my part.

In terms of trusting a brand new gun, I'm pretty comfortable doing so with a revolver, once I looked it over carefully. You're always playing the odds, no matter what - what chance is there that you'll actually need it; what chance is there that if you need it'll function properly - that's a bet I'd take. YMMV.

Jim D.
 
I'm pretty comfortable doing so with a revolver, once I looked it over carefully.
I think of all the fine clockwork and small tolerances in there and get puckery just considering carrying a revolver I'm not 100% proficient with. But that's just me. If I lend out a handgun/holster combo it is likely to be something I have an all-kydex holster for, so ... ... NAA mini (ha!) ... KT P32 (not bad, really) ... CZ52 (BOOM! BOOM! ... maybe not)
Damn, I'll have to get some more all-kydex holsters made up, I guess.
 
I usually have my knife in the stowed baggage. Another option is a roll of dimes bring a spare wrapper incase you have to unroll them.
Just an old sailor trick. I have not flown in a while and never transported a gun on a plane.
Another concern is riding a bus, I don't think there is a legal way to transport a firearm on a bus and possibily a train.
The USS Badger Ludington MI to Mantawok WI requires firearms be left in the car or bike when using the ferry service. By the way the dogs detected the firearm. It was stowed properly on the cycle.
The only way you can purchase a handgun and walk out the door in another state is if you are a FFL dealer with all the papers in hand. Unless this changed since I last herd.

Nice thought though.
Merry Christmas.
 
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