How to be (better) friends with the NRA

[TexasSkyhawk]

I was just reading a post where a THR member brought up a very minor, yet legitimate in his view, gripe about the NRA and the incessant call to renew memberships--even within months, or maybe even weeks, of initially joining or further renewing the membership.

A few random thoughts and facts about that.

One, the NRA certainly isn't alone. Among other educational/special interest associations I belong to are Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association (AOPA), Experiemental Aircraft Association (EAA), Boat US, to name a few.

Pretty much without fail, I get mailings to renew my membership year around. So it's certainly not just an NRA thing.

When I worked for the NRA's ad agency, I learned a number of things about the Association as well as special interest organizations. First and foremost is that the second hardest job is to get members, the absolute hardest job is to retain them.

You'd be surprised--as I was--to see the percentage of NRA members (or AOPA or EAA, et al) who let their membership lapse. Then a month, or two months later when they don't receive the Rifleman or Hunter or First Freedom, an angry call/e-mail goes to NRA after which it is explained that their membership lapsed.

Temporary non-member's response is usually, "Oh poopsicle! I never DID up my membership."

Budgets, plans and strategies are all contigent upon knowing as close to possible how many active members you'll have day in and day out. Does NRA and other organizations overdo the constant "reminders?" Maybe so, but understanding why they do it will hopefully make it a bit more palatable for us.

Second, as far as being able to contribute or donate money to the NRA (or any other special interest association) without fear of being tagged a potential deep-pockets Mr. Moneybags, the solution my wife and I found a number of years ago is extremely simple:

We send cashier's checks or money orders.

"Pay to the order of the National Rifle Association" or whatever, and the association can stamp it, desposit it, and put it in their ledgers.

They get their money, we get the satisfaction of having donated, contributed and helped secure our rights--all without our names ending up on a donor list to be perpetually hounded for more money.

We have found this technique to work very good for the charities we support, as well as the organizations we belong to like NRA, AOPA, EAA, etc.

And, as many have pointed out, you can request the mailings/phone calls and such pretty much come to a halt. Easy and quick to do and it's effective.

Finally, for those who are concerned about the money it takes to send all these mailings out, it's not nearly as costly as you might initially think.

You budget and project based upon membership numbers and unit cost. Our agency handled several direct mail accounts, and when we'd send out, say, five million letters, the unit cost (not including postage) was usually less than two to three cents each. Bulk rate for postage is pretty low for the sheer amounts these organizations send out.

AND. . . . not everyone just pitches the letters or appeals for money. A whole lot of people re-up, renew or extend their memberships. A lot of people drop a five dollar bill or a ten dollar check in the mail and send it right back.

More than enough members do this to keep it as an effective tool for retaining membership and garnering funds.

Just a little insight as to how the thinking used to be. Would guess it hasn't changed all that much from organization to organization.

Jeff

 

[Big Az Al]

Texasskyhawk, I kind of like your post, but have to add this

When I worked for the NRA's ad agency, I learned a number of things about the Association as well as special interest organizations. First and foremost is that the second hardest job is to get members, the absolute hardest job is to retain them.

If the hardest thing to do is retain members then why are so many of us talked down to for saying that these are concerns?


First off: The constant, 12+ a year (one year it was BI weekly) reminders to renew, make us ( at least me) mumb to when the experation/renewal date is coming!!

Second: when I decide I want a $2 knife in my pocket I will buy it, I don't need to have one sent to me with a send us $5 dollars you want to keep it, bill included!!!!


And LAST: (maybe this should be first) The NRA does have a "DO NOT PROMOTE LIST"

after FINALLY being shown that it is there, Although I had to ask (complain/whine) about the junk for several years to find out about it! I was told about it, wich did bring me back, and from several other message boards a few others!

So please spread the word, there is away to have it stopped, you can get on a list stops, most of the things that bother some of us, it is just a phone call or an Email away.

 

[GeorgiaGlocker]

I will add another reason why it is hard to sign up members and to retain them. The NRA doesn't support the same ideas of many gun owners. An example is in the state of Georgia right now.

 

[JohnBT]

"If the hardest thing to do is retain members then why are so many of us talked down to for saying that these are concerns?"

Maybe some people think they are relatively minor concerns in the grand scheme of things. For instance, let's imagine some NRA members discussing the pending Supreme Court case on a discussion forum. Right in the middle someone, or two or three, will pop up and complain about the NRA and getting too much mail. Or that they don't like the magazine. Or that they quit because they never got their free hat (somebody posted exactly that.)

I guess I'm one of those who doesn't think it's a big deal as things go.

Or someone will insist, one more time, in endless hopeless futility, that GOA makes more sense than the NRA and doesn't really tell half-truths and worse even though it's right there in the GOA alerts for everyone to see.

I'm not saying stuff doesn't bother me, I'm just saying I try not to sweat the little stuff. And honestly, talking about a $5 pocket knife is little stuff.

John

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

I will add another reason why it is hard to sign up members and to retain them. The NRA doesn't support the same ideas of many gun owners.

Hell, *I* don't support the same ideas of a lot of gun owners.

Whether anyone will admit it or not, we got some real cuckoos out there that make everyone else have to work and spend five times as hard just to keep what we've got.

Jeff

 

[JohnMcD348]

My only complaint, and it's minor, is that AI am a Life Member, last year, I upgraded to Endowment Life and I still get the monthly please join now mailings. I do try to promote the NRA, I have used the mailings to give memberships to others but I to do think that sometimes, the mailings are a little too excessive. I read "SOME" of the mailings or at least give them a cursory glance and their news alerts are really just money requests.

I was disgusted with them for awhile after I had become a Life member about 15 years ago, but I figured there were alot of worse things in the world to be bothered by, that wasn't significant enough to be one of them. I would like to see more info passed out by the NRA and actually truly keep us up to date with the mailings about what they are actually doing and not just the vague "We're there every day fighting the good Fight" mass mailings they send out. Actually tell us What they're doing, what actions are they taking, what fights are they fighting either on the national or state levels.

I think, if they did that, instead of the general mass mailings with the "Just send more money as the tag line, actually tell people what they are doing with the money they are asking for, it might come a little more freely.

but then again, I don't know or do marketing so I could be totally off on this.

 

[Robert Hairless]

If the hardest thing to do is retain members then why are so many of us talked down to for saying that these are concerns?

Perhaps I can help you understand that point.

First please clear your mind sufficiently to realize that none of the people who talk down to you here represent the NRA. All of us who do that are at best ordinary forum members and ordinary NRA members with no special ability to resolve your concerns. Hold onto that thought.

So not one of us before whom you express your concerns can do anything at all about them. But many of us are smart enough to recognize that you don't want to resolve your concerns by handling them effectively. You want merely to "express your concerns," which means to whine and to complain and to gripe, and nothing more--especially not to do anything to remove those concerns.

Another part of the reason why some of us talk down to you is that we wonder why you have such difficulty in coping with a common and ordinary aspect of ordinary life in the modern world. This is not, as they say, rocket science and surely it is not even as uncommon an event as being visited by UFOs. The mails and e-mails bring solicitations and advertising. This is a shock to you and you can't handle it?

Why do you trouble us with such silliness when there are easy ways for you to handle those concerns by yourself without troubling anyone else?

Every mailing from the NRA includes simple instructions to opt out of all future mailings. If you really do receive such mailings and object to them, why do you not read and follow those instructions instead of being concerned?

If you are concerned but are unable to read or understand those instructions, why does your concern not lead you to the NRA website for even more instructions explained just as simply in just as plain English:

Control of Personal Information

Opt Out

We also use your membership information to send you notices in the mail or by email about special member benefits, discounts, and offers. If you do not wish to receive these mailings, you can: (1) opt-out of email lists immediately by following the instructions at the bottom of the email, (2) email us using our Contact Us page, (3) call us at 1-800-672-3888, (4) write to us at National Rifle Association of America, 11250 Waples Mill Road; Fairfax, VA 22030.

If you have difficulty understanding even those instructions you probably can recognize the appearance of a toll free telephone number within them: 1-800-672-3888. Why do you not telephone that number, speak to the human being who answers on behalf of the NRA, and explain your concerns to that person and ask him or her to resolve them for you.

Nobody made me an NRA Member Retention Representative and, so far as I know, neither The High Road nor any other gun-related forum is an extension of the NRA. People here--including me for sure--express their own opinions, obviously including at least some you don't like. So sad.

Not to talk down to you, but can't you realize how funny it is to see people say that they won't join the NRA because they're offended by one or more NRA members. Do you think that the NRA is a social club where you get together with the guys and hang out. If that's your reason for belonging or not belonging to the NRA something is wrong. And not with the NRA or me.

Your concern is that you get solicitations you don't want. Horrors. But it never occurs to you that some of us don't mind and even welcome those solicitations because they help us strengthen an organization we desperately need.

All of the above has been said, one way or another, over and over and over and over again. Makes no difference. Makes no dent. Took you years to find out how to resolve your concern.

That other concern is easy to resolve: "I will add another reason why it is hard to sign up members and to retain them. The NRA doesn't support the same ideas of many gun owners. An example is in the state of Georgia right now." I support the same ideas of many gun owners. If you have an idea and you want my support, send me money and I will support it. Forget the NRA. Just send me money and I will support every idea you and anyone else has. You want me to support a bill in the Congress? Count on my support. You want me to oppose the same bill? Count on it. All I ask is that you send me enough money. I won't use my own mind: I'll rely on yours and everyone else's. That way you'll know you're being supported by someone who supports the same ideas as all gun owners--and all at once too.

 

[TEDDY]

mailings

Robert: I'm with you.I get mailings from all my mag subs months before it runs out.not just the NRA.since the NRA is the oldest org.it is the best.is GAO recognized by congress,no does GAO keep all the shooting records,no.the NRA is all things to all shooters.They have a hard time rasing money compared to the antis. all the antis have to do is ask G Sotos for couple million and he gives it to them, there is a large foundation that supports the antis.an as to telling every thing. Pete Spears? is a member of the NRA (so he can know what NRA does)he was the handgun control jock before brady.
I sub to "the new gun week".comes out twice a month.gives alot of news on the gun front.:banghead:

 

[Big Az Al]

Control of Personal Information

Quote:
Control of Personal Information

Opt Out

We also use your membership information to send you notices in the mail or by email about special member benefits, discounts, and offers. If you do not wish to receive these mailings, you can: (1) opt-out of email lists immediately by following the instructions at the bottom of the email, (2) email us using our Contact Us page, (3) call us at 1-800-672-3888, (4) write to us at National Rifle Association of America, 11250 Waples Mill Road; Fairfax, VA 22030.

The thing is after I had dropped from the NRA, when I talked to people at the sign up tables, NOT IN GENERAL DISCUSSIONS OF REAL LEGISLATIZE CONCERNS!

These are the people that where the most offensive to me! Not 1 even seemed to give a darned about the fact that people that have been burned by "junk mail" related, identity THEFT, are with good reason bothered by any and all junk mail! And more so when the source is an organization that we know we need, and don't see any need of the BS

What I had hoped to do by posting that there is a "DO NOT PROMOTE LIST" is get people to talk about it so that when or if they encounter someone that feels that this a concern and say's so, they can be given an "ANSWER", rather then just being told, "suck it up, that's life"

I will always be Pro gun and vote that way, My vote counts, Not being in the NRA does not make it count less!

So why not give an, "Answer" to someone that has a gripe, even if you feel it is of little concern or even maybe petty, It may just make it a little easier to recruit and maybe retain members!

 

[Robert Hairless]

So why not give an, "Answer" to someone that has a gripe, even if you feel it is of little concern or even maybe petty, It may just make it a little easier to recruit and maybe retain members!

Al, you're not receiving what I'm transmitting. Let me try again, briefly.

I am not here to recruit or retain NRA members.

I couldn't imagine breakfast without a nice glass of orange juice but I am not here to sell orange juice either. I really like Benelli shotguns but I am not here to recruit customers for Benelli, and if someone has a Benelli he doesn't like I wouldn't lift a finger to discourage him from selling it.

I might argue against whacky statements that orange juice turned people into sex maniacs or that Benelli shotguns were made of rubber and melted with a single shot, and I do argue when people make whacky or blatantly false statements that I know are wrong about the NRA.

But I don't do it to change the minds of those people. In my own long experience of life I've learned that people who make whacky or blatantly false statements don't change their minds, and probably don't have much in the way of minds either. It doesn't bother me if someone with more patience and charity than I have wants to knock his head against the wall. I don't.

The NRA is the only effective national gun rights organization in this country and the only national organization that provides a wide variety of services that keeps gun ownership in this country alive. The membership cost is $35 a year but is discounted heavily to as little as $10 a year.

But you want me to take seriously people who won't join or remain NRA members because they are mortally offended by mail from them? Get real.

The only time I'll spend on such people is when I'm amused, and I spend that time for my enjoyment not their personal edification. You are talking about people who can't read well enough to see how to turn off the mail that bothers them and are emotionally shattered by the need to toss unwanted mail in the trash. You expect me to provide what Mother Nature denied them?

Unless I misunderstood the following comment of yours, you yourself dropped your NRA membership because of all that stress inducing mail they sent, never rejoined after learning at last how to turn it off, but still consider yourself helping to protect your gun ownership: "I will always be Pro gun and vote that way, My vote counts, Not being in the NRA does not make it count less!" Good for you!

But the bottom line is that you think you're "pro gun" because you vote every two or four years. Goody. You actually clean up, get dressed, and go to the polls once or twice in four years and you think you're "pro gun" for doing that? Is this what stands between us and those who work hard to weaken the Second Amendment?

How much of my time would it take to try to penetrate your thinking? And what are the chances of my being able to get you to see reality? I don't for a moment believe that anyone could effect a change with you, and it's not a task I want to undertake. Someone else can try. It isn't how I choose to spend part of my life.

If I understand what you're saying, you are not an NRA member but you lecture those of us who are NRA members on how to be better NRA members and you don't have a clue about how presumptuous and silly that is.

 

[M_Olson]

Second: when I decide I want a $2 knife in my pocket I will buy it, I don't need to have one sent to me with a send us $5 dollars you want to keep it, bill included!!!!

im not really familiar with the specific situation youre referring to, but just an fyi: unsolicited products mailed to you are legally yours to keep. i dk if you have mailed it back or not in the past, but just letting you know you dont have to send it back or pay the "bill".

So why not give an, "Answer" to someone that has a gripe, even if you feel it is of little concern or even maybe petty, It may just make it a little easier to recruit and maybe retain members!

the simple answer is that he has more fun talking to people as if they are 5 years old. i think its some kind of superiority complex or something.

 

[Robert Hairless]

the simple answer is that he has more fun talking to people as if they are 5 years old. i think its some kind of superiority complex or something.

Nah, don't mistake impatience with foolishness for any kind of "complex." Yeah, I do tend to talk to people who say juvenile things as if they are saying juvenile things. It is not the least bit "complex."

About your comment: "im not really familiar with the specific situation youre referring to ...." Huh? When the NRA sends anything unsolicited it informs people of their rights. You don't know that because you're "not really familiar with the specific situation" but it doesn't stop you from commenting. I doubt, by the way, that the NRA sends unsolicited knives to people through the mails.

I seem to have struck a sensitive spot in you that compels you to jump into this thread for the purpose of making yet another nasty comment. I've seen you do it before. What is this strange power I have over you.

 

[Tom Servo]

I will add another reason why it is hard to sign up members and to retain them. The NRA doesn't support the same ideas of many gun owners. An example is in the state of Georgia right now.

That's the reason I may very well be leaving the NRA when my membership comes up for renewal in June.

Why? Because, according to a recent email, their "top legislative priority remains passage of HB 89," which is an onerous and likely doomed piece of legislation. In contrast, we have HB 915, which greatly clarifies and fixes our muddled state laws, and to which the NRA has given no support.

They also tried to sink Heller vs. DC because they didn't come up with it first. Their only involvement so far is an offer to draft an amicus curiae for the case Gura and Cato have fought so hard for.

That's really what both situations come down to: if it doesn't fit their agenda (and they don't get the credit), then they won't support it, no matter how important it may be.

Oh yeah: I've gotten two phone calls and three emails regarding HB 89 since Christmas, but nothing mentioning HB 915 or Heller. Where exactly is my money going? Georgia Carry has been fighting in the trenches for HB 915, and the NRA is busy pushing legislation that's alienating people on both sides of the debate.

We've got GCO working for us in Georgia, and on the national level, we've got GOA and JPFO. I just don't see where the NRA is fighting nearly as hard as any of these groups, whose combined income doesn't come close to that of the NRA.

 

[Robert Hairless]

EricF:

They also tried to sink Heller vs. DC because they didn't come up with it first. Their only involvement so far is an offer to draft an amicus curiae for the case Gura and Cato have fought so hard for.

That's really what both situations come down to: if it doesn't fit their agenda (and they don't get the credit), then they won't support it, no matter how important it may be.

Eric, may I suggest that you get in touch with Robert Levy and Alan Gura immediately to straighten them out? They keep making statements that show they don't know nearly as much as you do about their own case and it surely will embarrass them if they are discovered to be ignorant about themselves.

They say, for example, that the Cato Institute did not fight "so hard for" this case and in fact has nothing to do with it:

Who is backing your case?

This case is a private effort that three lawyers – Alan Gura, Bob Levy, and Clark Neily – have undertaken on a pro bono basis on behalf of the six plaintiffs. We have not raised or accepted funds from any outside source, and the work product is entirely our own. The press has occasionally connected our case with the Cato Institute, probably because Mr. Levy and plaintiff Tom Palmer are affiliated with Cato. But Cato is a think tank, not a law firm, and it has no affiliation with this case beyond its general interest in promoting liberty, which certainly includes the right to own functional firearms in one’s home.

The Heller v. DC lawyers also do not know that the NRA "also tried to sink Heller vs. DC because they didn't come up with it first." Robert Levy says something far different from what you know: Levy says that the NRA disagreed about the strategy. The NRA confirms what he says. You know different, and you know that it's wrong and sinister to disagree. Tell them.

“Their thinking was,” Mr. Levy said, “‘good case, might win in the appellate court but it could be a problem if it reaches the Supreme Court.’”

Wayne LaPierre, the N.R.A.’s chief executive officer, largely confirmed that characterization. “There was a real dispute on our side among the constitutional scholars about whether there was a majority of justices on the Supreme Court who would support the Constitution as written,” Mr. LaPierre said.

Both men said the N.R.A. and Mr. Levy’s team were now on good terms.

Notice, by the way, that the Heller v. DC lawyers said "We have not raised or accepted funds from any outside source, and the work product is entirely our own." They seem to think that they don't want and won't accept any involvement from anyone else, so your comment that the NRA's "only involvement so far is an offer to draft an amicus curiae for the case" is absolutely correct but most misleading.

Why do you base your judgments and your knowledge on an article that is so blatantly slanted against the NRA that it quotes Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center as the source for what you say:

“The NRA wants to be the one to define the meaning of the Second Amendment,” says Josh Sugarman, executive director for the anti-gun Violence Policy Center in Washington. Sugarman’s 1992 book, National Rifle Association: Money, Firepower & Fear, is widely regarded as one of the most authoritative histories of the organization.

You seem not to know or care that the American Bar Association is noted for its hostility towards gun rights and the NRA both. Do you agree that the book by the executive director for the anti-gun Violence Policy Center "is widely regarded as one of the most authoritative histories" of the NRA? Do you think it's just possible that it might be a hatchet job that you're supporting? Does the Violence Policy Center also support the bill you're supporting, and have you asked for its endorsement? If not, won't you at least consider asking the Violence Policy Center for its support?

Have you tried offering support to the Heller lawyers? I did. Robert Levy refused it with thanks, saying that he wanted to do it by himself. Perhaps I should have insisted that he didn't, but the thought never occurred to me. What did Levy tell you when you offered support?

Notice that I'm not treating you like a five year old? Don't tell M.Olsen. The contrast might make him unhappy.

 

[M_Olson]

I doubt, by the way, that the NRA sends unsolicited knives to people through the mails.

I don't need to have one sent to me with a send us $5 dollars you want to keep it, bill included!!!!

you seem to have missed the meaning of my very simple statement. thats ok, ill spell it out for you. i also doubt that they actually sent the knives, but people actually do stuff like that, hence the "im not familiar with the situation" line.

I seem to have struck a sensitive spot in you that compels you to jump into this thread for the purpose of making yet another nasty comment. I've seen you do it before. What is this strange power I have over you.

lol youve seen me do it before, thats funny. what i remember is you attacking me out of the blue for saying why im not an nra member yet. what has struck a cord with me is your completely contemptuous attitude toward anyone who has a different opinion than you. heres a hint, just because someone thinks something different, doesnt mean their viewpoint is "juvenile". what really makes me upset, is that, as a long time member, i would expect you to hold more true to the principles of "the highroad" than other members. yet you treat almost everyone who disagrees with you with utter disdain.

 

[Robert Hairless]

lol youve seen me do it before, thats funny. what i remember is you attacking me out of the blue for saying why im not an nra member yet. what has struck a cord with me is your completely contemptuous attitude toward anyone who has a different opinion than you. heres a hint, just because someone thinks something different, doesnt mean their viewpoint is "juvenile". what really makes me upset, is that, as a long time member, i would expect you to hold more true to the principles of "the highroad" than other members. yet you treat almost everyone who disagrees with you with utter disdain.

I thought it was personal, M. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

Nope, I don't treat everyone or even almost everyone who disagrees with me with utter disdain. For example I never say anything like "the simple answer is that he has more fun talking to people as if they are 5 years old. i think its some kind of superiority complex or something." You do that. I don't.

I probably do show disdain for statements that are disdainful, but if you were to pay better attention you would see that when I disagree with something I give reasons and support for them. You don't.

I try hard to know what I'm talking about before I say something, and I work hard at making what I say literate and understandable. I begin sentences with capital letters and make them grammatically correct. I do it out of respect for myself, for other people, and for this forum. You don't.

When I'm given reasons and support that demonstrate I'm wrong, I say so. You don't.

Instead you "lol" around and use wierd logic and wierder writing to excuse yourself for wierd statements such as "i also doubt that they actually sent the knives, but people actually do stuff like that, hence the 'im not familiar with the situation' line." If you're "not familiar with the situation," and you doubt what he said, and it's not what the nice man was talking about anyway, it's hard to imagine any "line" that could justify your inanity. But you think your "line" does. That is wierd and, maybe, juvenile too.

I acknowledge that you can't perceive that some viewpoints are juvenile. I think I recognized that problem earlier. You've made it clear that I don't conform to your standards. Why keep picking at it if you don't like the result. What is this strange power I have over you?