How to choose an M44 Mosin Nagant to buy

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tacweapon

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There is a gun show coming to town next weekend and I plan on buying a M44 Mosin Nagant, my question is how do I tell which one is going to be the best one, I do not want it to be a historcal piece just the most accurate I can get.

What markings should I look for ?
Should I look for one that is counter bored ?
What is the easiest way to check the rifling ?
What is the easiest way to check muzzle wear ?

Is there anything else I should look for ?

Also I am sure that it is going to be covered with cosmoline so what is the easiest way to get rid of it ? What cleaners work best to get rid of it ?

Thanks for the help I am sure this has been covered but I could not find anything using the search
 
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What markings should I look for ?
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what markings do you want? almost all the common stuff on the market now is Izhevsk post war. if its coming out of a big create for 90$ thats what your getting. if its on a rack and not likely ordered recently theres a hole slew of markings you may find.

circle 11 is one i can think of, thats Polish
Triangle 26, 296, those are both Chinese T53's ( amazing trigger)

Should I look for one that is counter bored ?
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no, many of the M44 on the market today are straight outta the warehouse. its the M38's that are common with a counterbore

What is the easiest way to check the rifling ?
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open the bolt, pull it to the rear, hold the trigger down, and remove the bolt from the rifle. point the gun at a ceiling light and look down the barrel

What is the easiest way to check muzzle wear ?
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you wont need to worry about it with most of the M44's on the market now.
check the crown of the rifle, you want to see good sharp lands and grooves of the rifling. you should be able to see the rifling and not just a smooth cylinder
 
Markings - matter of personal preference. I suggest checking http://7.62x54r.net and at least know the different arsenal marks. You ideally want to find one where the 4 serial numbers match.

I wouldn't want a counterbored personally. I'd rather get it recrowned myself if the muzzle is bad.

A bore light

a flashlight.

I wouldn't be so sure that it will be covered with Cosmoline. YMMV.

I cleaned my Garand with Simple Green, but others will have other opinions. The stock should be shellacked, so you could clean with something like simple green. boiling water will melt cosmoline right off. Its more of a wax, than a grease.
 
I would stay away from a counter bored model. take the bolt out, and look down the bore, if it is shiny....with sharp rifling lines then your will be a good shooter. Be sure to look at the crown for nicks.

heat brings out cosmoline....let the wood sit out in the sun...then wipe it off....or take the gun out of the wood, and your some wood cleaner, then wipe down all the parts of metal...

lets us know if you get one.
 
After you have looked at www.7.62X54R.net look further on the world wide web and see what the 91/30 and M44's are selling for....

Add to that price the cost of shipping and perhaps a transfer fee if shipped to a ffl. add sales tax if it applies. This will be the base cost of the gun when you get it home. At the gun show, the guns are usually a little more than advertised prices on some of the web sites but you may not have to pay shipping, transfer and tax and therefore get a better deal at the gun show. Keep in mind that it is up to you to know what it is that you want so that your BS filter doesn't get clogged up as often happens at gun shows.
 
At the last gun show they were selling for 79 each and there were planty there so I think I will get it at the show since the price will be about the same and I will get to look at it before I buy.

Thanks for the help so far
 
If you want further clarification on how to remove the bolt on the Mosin-Nagant, look at steps 1 and 2 here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/rifledisassembly/index.asp

Super easy.

Bolt goes back in with the instructions reversed.


Another think to look for (if it matters to you) is that depending on when it was made and in what factory, the receivers will varying degrees of refinement with respect to the finishing of the receivers. Some will have well finished, smooth receivers and others will have obvious tool marks.

Andy
 
I know a little about Mosins I have one that I picked up at the local pawn shop that had been bubba'd, so I have had to do some work on it I have had to get a new reciever and a new bolt for it since the previious owner had grinded off the locking lugs and butchered it in other ways as well, the front sight had been replaced with a 1903 sight. So I know a little about how to take them apart, I just dont know much about how to choice a good one,

Thanks for the help so far everyone
 
Typically, there are serial numbers in 4 places: the bolt, the receiver, the butt plate, and the floor plate. The should be stamped in the metal, not electropenciled. Electropenciled and lined out numbers were force matched when refurbished. Nothing wrong with this, but it's a buyer's market, so get all matching stamped.

The factory they come from isn't important if you're not collecting. They each produced very good shooters.

The stock may be wood or laminate. Neither is better; many like the look of laminate, though.

There are many available, right now, so there's no need to pick one that has been counterbored. Keep in mind that counterboring was done to improve a weapon that had a damaged crown. So if you fall in love with one that is counterbored, it should still shoot very well.

Make sure is has a cleaning rod.

It should come with a sling, an oil bottle, a magazine pouch, and an adjustment tool at no extra price. CAI Imports includes these with every gun. I don't know about other importers.
 
Markings in order of preference for non-crategrab M-44 rifles:

(11)
0 2
Star
Triangle
Triangle with arrow inside it
Triangle with 26 inside it
Chinese characters

For crategrab rifles, you preferably want a 1943 dated M-44, since those are from the 50,000 batch made as trials rifles. Otherwise, pick the best rifle out of the crate in terms of bore condition or whichever one speaks to you for other reasons. Wartime is always a plus, but post-war are often unissued.
 
Check bore condition, if possible. Dark bores with sharp rifling are okay, Bright shiney bores even better.

Counterbored? I wouldn't! Look at the muzzle, it should be smooth and free of nicks. counterbored rifle will be noticably larger, and will have a round muzzle iwth no rifling showing.

Test trigger? After I found a rifle with a spectacular bore, with no counterbore, I tested the trigger, and it was excellent. Positive engagement, with a smooth light release. Sometimes really horrible trigers on Moison Nagant Rifles are because the trigger guard screws are loose.

Even the stock was outstanding, on the rifle I bought. It shoots great, and right on target.
 
Being a new guy, called about eight stores last weekend, going through central TN to Evansville, IN.
Two Gander Mountains now charge $150, but the intro price in Evansville was $99 until last weekend. None were laminated but all looked like they were fresh from a distributor. Was resolved to find a second 44 with really good metal components.

On the drive back, went in a small store which had two 44s. The one listed for $99 had about two inches of corrosion on the upper bolt, and scratched yellowish wood.
The other is laminated with no corrosion (got it for $115). The staffmember referred to a tiny bit of "rust" on the upper front sight hood, but it turned out to be a tiny fleck where the bluing was chipped off. This was Clarksville, TN (one mile from Ft. Campbell).

With the bolt pulled out, the bore looked really fuzzy and dark, compared to the 44 I bought last Dec. from Classicarms Inc.
Told the staffer, and he pulled his 'bore snake' through it-suddenly, the grooves looked clear and everything was shiny. These guys also have a Yugo SKS which could be a "cherry" rifle. The SKS list price appeared to be about $270.
Happy hunting for your rifle(s).
 
For me, it was very simple:

Dealer handed me beautiful '46 Izhevsk M44. I observed matching bolt. I opened bolt. I shined SureFire on bolt face. I observed beautiful bore. I plopped money down on table. I walked away with beautiful Mosin. Eese gude, no?
 
The Polish M44's are often unissued. The Russians can be in all sorts of conditions. As much as earlier posters hate counterboring, I have never had an inaccurate counterbored rifle (I have about 10). Counterboring was done to improve accuracy, and it appears to have worked.
My M44's generally get 3-4 MOA and my single Polish one gets about 2 MOA.
 
Nice find.
Being the fairly new (older) guy with this, just went today to my first gun show,
over in Memphis.
After prev. reading/chatting with people about shows, did not expect to see discounted ammo or rifles.

But I was still disappointed with the external conditions of most Mosins and most SKS, based on the high prices. Check these and Minis weekly on GunBroker, just to learn. At show, about $99 for fair looks with the 44s and maybe $90-$120 for 91/30s, except for snipers. A guy even told me that some "snipers" are modified so that sellers can try to fool you with the bent bolts. All the other used military rifles were not the best I've seen, kind of knocked around, although one or two Mauser K 98s seemed fairly good on the outside, at least the wood.

This might not help other newer shooters. During my only visits to (two) Gander Mts, Jackson, TN and Evansville, IN, the listed price for basic, nice 44s was $150, and the Evansville manager said he could come down to $130. All were very new-looking at both stores, metal and wood, with thin bits of cosmo.
Up in IN the manager had about three more hidden in back room. Did not seem them, but the ones visible were all much nicer than any at today's show. My conclusion is that both most of the gun show sellers and Gander Mt. lists quite unreasonable prices. The Evans. store had an intro price of $99 just before my visit when they were abruptly marked up by $50 and 50%. Bait and switch?
Maybe people can negotiate the price down, especially on the last day at a gun show?
Luckily another buyer sold me 440 rds. of x54R (at wholesale cost) from his truck.

Along with the dusty grey cans, did Bulgaria also produce the shiny green oval 440-round cans with the strange openers?
Each bullet has very thin red stripe.
Good luck at the better shows-they reportedly don't come to Memphis. Maybe a show near the rest of you will host sellers who want to bring in their better rifles-if they have any.
 
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But I was still disappointed with the external conditions of most Mosins and most SKS, based on the high prices. Check these and Minis weekly on GunBroker, just to learn. At show, about $99 for fair looks with the 44s and maybe $90-$120 for 91/30s, except for snipers. A guy even told me that some "snipers" are modified so that sellers can try fool you with the bent bolts. All the other used military rifles were not the best I've seen, kind of knocked around, although one or two Mauser K 98s seemed fairly good on the outside, at least the wood.

This might not help other newer shooters. During my only visits to (two) Gander Mts, Jackson, TN and Evansville, IN, the listed price for basic, nice 44s was $150, and the Evansville manager said he could come down to $130. All were very new-looking at both stores, metal and wood, with thin bits of cosmo.
Up in IN the manager had about three more hidden in back room. Did not seem them, but the ones visible were all much nicer than any at today's show. My conclusion is that both most of the gun show sellers and Gander Mt. lists unreasonalbe prices.
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You probably wouldn't be surprised to know how many people ask me how I get my milsurps for the prices I do, particularly given their condition.

I paid $70 for each of these (technically about $77 apiece once you factor in the cost of shipping) not much more than a month ago (ugly flash photography used to highlight the condition). The M44 in particular is in like-new exterior condition, though the 91/30 has some minor handling damage to the finish in certain areas. Both completely match and are above and beyond anything I have seen at a gun show recently.

My C&R has already paid for itself many times over (or cost me more money than I would have spent otherwise, depending upon your perspective :) ).
 

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I have a counter-bored M38. The nice thing about the M38 is no bayonet. It has turned out to be a real tack-driver with handloaded ammo -- the best group so far off the bench was 0.7" at 50 yards -- quite decent for a milsurp carbine. My friend also has a counter-bored M38 and his will also shoot about 2 MOA with handloads. Don't be scared away by the counter-bore; they can be quite accurate.
 
Nice Mosins. Hideous flag. What are the years/arsenals?
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Hideous, yes, but appropriate. :) Flag belongs to my roommate - he collects them.

They're pretty mundane by collector standards - a 1942 Izhevsk 91/30 and a 1944 Izhevsk M44. The bore on the 91/30 is in great shape - I'm guessing the soldier(s) who carried it didn't get off many shots before being cut down in a suicide charge in Stalingrad a-la Enemy at the Gates. ;) That said, the build quality/fit and finish on the M44 is noticeably better. I'm now toying with the idea of grabbing a Finn or a hex 91/30.
 
what are you looking for first of all, colector, shooter? i look for shooters, first i look at the rifling, then overal apearance excluding stock, then function. i exclude the stock cause that can be found anywhere. i prefer shooters over colectors grade, but thats me...
 
The pictures will have to wait until tomorrow. I just had to go back out to the range. I fired about 100 rounds from 50 to 100 yards. At the end of the day I was shooting some Silver Bear Match and shot a 1.25 inch 3 shot group, but it hit about 3 inches high and an inch left of the bulleseye. I am very pleased with the rifle. I ended up getting one that was counter-bored but the barrel was shiny and the rifling sharp and the actions smooth the trigger could be better but it is not too bad it is long and heavy but it is better then the trigger on my friends M44 or M91/30
 
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