How to Handle a 911 Call After a Self Defense Shooting

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Bruno2

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A buddy of mine recently took a CCW class to get his permit. During the class the instructor gave this bit of advice to the class: Should you end up shooting somebody in SD, call 911 and tell them you just shot somebody in SD, give the location as well as your name and them swiftly hang the phone up". He did not recommend staying on the line to give anymore info or details about what happened.

Has anybody heard anything different or has opposing advice?
 
Bruno2 said:
A buddy of mine recently took a CCW class to get his permit. During the class the instructor gave this bit of advice to the class: Should you end up shooting somebody in SD, call 911 and tell them you just shot somebody in SD, give the location as well as your name and them swiftly hang the phone up". He did not recommend staying on the line to give anymore info or details about what happened.

Has anybody heard anything different or has opposing advice?
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Interesting. I've variations on the theme for making that 911 call, but never immediately hanging up after giving a minimal information.
 
While it essential that you notify the police first, hanging up could lead to disaster.

Think about it.

You need to know whether there are any more violent criminal actors around, and you need to be able to deal with them.

The police need to know the answer to that, too, along with their descriptions; where they are headed; what you look like; and how many people have been injured.

You need to know what's going on--that police are on the way, that they are arriving, and so on.

Best that you have someone else call with that information and stay on the line, and that you reholster or drop yur gun when the police arrive.

If you are alone and have to call yourself, do so; stay on the line, but do not let your situational awareness be impaired while you are holding the phone.
 
Not to mention that if you are armed and at the scene, you are going to want to make sure the police know what you look like, what you are wearing, etc.
 
General advice when calling 911 - start off with a location, then the nature of your emergency, concluding with the address again. If you get cut off for any reason, they at least have an address to investigate.
 
What about the fact that 911 operators are trained to collect evidence by asking 20 questions? Loose lips sink ships. Whatever you say beyond the basics is going to be twisted all to heel and back when a prosecuting attorney gets his hands on it. Also how about how CBS did the Zimmerman 911 call where they made him out to be a racial profiler even though that wasn't how it went down at all? I just don't like the idea of talking very much at all w/o an attorney present.
 
If there is any doubt in your mind that the assailant is still alive, put the phone on speaker after telling the operator what you are wearing; keep your gun in your hand, your eyes on the assailant and surroundings, and keep your ears open for the police.

Do not answer any questions from the 911 operator regarding the details of the shooting.

Once the cops show up, holster the gun and follow their instructions, but do not answer any of their questions. Tell them the assailant tried to kill you, you don't feel well enough to answer any questions and you want to go to the hospital.

At the hospital, tell any police trying to question you that you will not answer questions without your attorney present.

mbogo
 
Thank you Sam for the links! I am trying to comb through them. It will take a little as it seems every post has a link to something else.:D
 
Bruno2 said:
During the class the instructor gave this bit of advice to the class:
...and them swiftly hang the phone up
...Has anybody heard anything different or has opposing advice?
Click to expand...
That is some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

Think about it from the POV of the responding LEOs.

What they'll be told is that there is a reported shooting and that dispatch has lost contact with the reporting person(RP). Their first thought will be that the RP has been engaged by original BG or additional BGs and possibly overpowered or under fire.

The last thing you want to do is ratchet up their stress level and have them looking for armed BGs when they roll up on the scene. They won't have the slightest idea that you aren't a BG who is hunting the RP...because they won't have any idea what you look like
 
If I were a LEO responding to a 9-1-1 SD shooting call, my mind would be dwelling on a number of things, including the fact that I'm going to a scene at which, best case, I will find an armed citizen under stress or, worst case, an armed citizen who just wants to lure me in. The SD shooter needs to remember that an officer has no way of knowing if your call is truthful and will be on his guard, with you among his potential adversaries.

The best piece of advice I've ever heard on what to say or not to say is to keep your head about you and before speaking, think about how your words might be used later. If you find yourself in a trial, the prosecutor's goal will be to get a conviction, not to find the truth. Always remember that everything you say has the potential to help him get that conviction, but also that every non-response might leave the impression that you have something to hide.

It's a delicate and potentially life-altering balancing act that is best avoided by finding a way to not shoot.
 
If you have your wits about you after being involved in a shooting, be as succinct as possible when speaking to the 911 operator. "Just the facts, m'am".

The reality now is that the media will put that call on all over the news in an attempt to make you look bad to further their anti-gun agenda. Don't elaborate anything to the operator.
 
There is a big problem with 911 in this country. The legal system has allowed a strong unwritten defacto requirement to call 911 develop without addressing the self-incrimination concerns that come with that "requirement". If you can have a witness or loved one to make the call, all the better.

Despite the risks, Massad Ayoob recommends you take a very active role engaging with the responding police (identifying witnesses, pointing out evidence and making sure they actually collect it, etc.).

Mike
 
Another advantage of staying on the line is your personal safety.

You'll often hear the advice to holster or place your gun down when you hear the LEO arrive. Not horrible advice as far as it goes, but what if you are unsure it the BG is still a thread?

By staying on the line with dispatch, you can keep them updated as your situation evolves and they can tell you when the offices have you in sight and what they want you to do with your gun. {I would personally never have someone reholster their drawn gun, because I don't want to have to remove it from their holster to secure it later and I really don't want them to think they are helping by offering it too me as I approach; Yes, I've had this happen}
 
I'm no legal expert, but there is a balance between possibly incriminating yourself and the need to keep dispatch informed. I'd probably say something like, "there's a man here who's been shot, we need police and ambulance." If they ask something like, "Is the shooter still around?" which they inevitably will, you'd say "the guy was attacking me and I had to shoot him in self-defense." That way the police know it's not an active shooter situation, and you haven't admitted to anything apart from shooting the guy (which you'd have to acknowledge anyway if you're claiming self-defense). I'd make no further statements about what led up to the shooting, only about what IS happening -- is he conscious, where is he, etc.
 
Bruno2 said:
A buddy of mine recently took a CCW class to get his permit. During the class the instructor gave this bit of advice to the class: Should you end up shooting somebody in SD, call 911 and tell them you just shot somebody in SD, give the location as well as your name and them swiftly hang the phone up". He did not recommend staying on the line to give anymore info or details about what happened.
Click to expand...
That's some of the worst post-SD-shooting advice I've ever heard. While I understand the desire not to incriminate oneself after having to shoot someone, there is some critical information that a shooter really needs to communicate to dispatch. For example, if I were in that position, I'd want the dispatcher to know (& to communicate to the officers headed to the scene) what I am wearing. If at all possible, I'd like to avoid having the police aerate me. In pursuing this most noteworthy of objectives, I want the responding officers to know (before they get to my location) that the pudgy middle-aged guy in the fedora is NOT a cold-blooded killer. Otherwise, when they show up, it might be that all they find is a pudgy, middle-aged guy standing over a body with a gun in his hand. I don't like my odds in that scenario.
 
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Regrettably, many very good shooting instructors, who do teach the required curriculum for CCW of their state, and also how to shoot well, think they know about the legalities and nuances of interacting with the police. However, they base their advice on what they have "heard" over the years. I recommend getting proper instructions on the issues of post self-defense situations from proven expert witnesses, like Massas Ayoob, and lawyers who specialize in 2nd amendment and self defense cases. The best advice I have seen is in the training material provided by the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Massad is on their Board, and takes part in some of the training videos. They also work with lawyers with 2nd Amendment knowledge and procedural knowledge. Be aware that the typical defense lawyer, who has spent a career defending mostly guilty clients, is likely to give advice that is not what you need as a self defender. Join the Network, and use their training; watch Massad's available videos. You will realize that much of the "conventional wisdom" on how to call in to 911 and then how to deal with police on scene is fundamentally bad advice.

I will not try to repeat the training here, but will give one clear example, which I learned from Massad's videos. Common advice, including in a famous online video of a former cop and lawyer at a university in Virginia, is to clam up for the police, and tell them you will talk only after seeing your lawyer. Massad says to agree to cooperate, give them the basics of what happened, indicating who was where, and whether there were any witnesses. Once they have all the facts on scene, THEN say you will be happy to cooperate fully, but you do need to talk to your lawyer. The reason for giving the initial information is so that the on scene detective can find witnesses and physical evidence while they are still available. People, shell casings, and other aspects essential to corroborating your story all disappear in the few days between your incident and your lawyer-protected interview days later.
 
First and foremost, after stating that you shot in self-defense, should be to request an ambulance.
Click to expand...

Is this to show compassion for the person shot? Because I would like to think that even a 911 operator's first day on the job would send the meat wagon after you say you just shot someone.
 
Bruno2 said:
Is this to show compassion for the person shot? Because I would like to think that even a 911 operator's first day on the job would send the meat wagon after you say you just shot someone.
Click to expand...
In some States there is a duty to render aid. Requesting medical attention for the perp you just shot demonstrates you followed this part of the law. It's one less charge to worry about.
 
I have heard both suggestions over the years:

1. Stay on the phone with 911; or
2. Tell 911 you need to hangup to focus on the issue at hand.

I think a compelling argument can be made in both cases.
 
With the current political climate, I'd be paranoid, so I would not hang up the phone. I would rather tell the operator that I'm going to sit the phone down so that if anything else did happen, I'd have some evidence to back my story up and/or the police that are on the way to the seen would be a little more informed. Most house phones and cell phones have a Speaker Phone options, so why not use that?
 
Well, when the moderators decide to let us discuss the Zimmerman trial we can discuss how well calling 911 worked out for Zimmerman.

Here is a hypothetical:
1. Homeowner calls 911; someone is in my home coming up the stairs
2. Bad guy kicks bedroom door in
3. Homeowner: Stop or I'll shoot
4. Bad guy: I give up don't shoot; bad guy then lunges at homeowner
5. Homeowner: BANG! Bad guy dead

Law enforcement, the prosecution and the grand jury will hear what?

A 911 call left open throughout an encounter could be worse than talking to the cops without an attorney. It gives crooked people in government something to point to and build a false narrative around and use legal trickery to convict the homeowner that thought the system was there to protect and serve. Why provide more fuel for the fire? You gave name, address, description of the situation and your location in the home and told the operator you need to go to tend to other matters. 911 can't do anything else for you. Put your faith in the cops and hang up the phone.

Your 911 call is public information. Has a news organization ever doctored a 911 call to put someone in a bad light? I think so.

The United States is the only country that elects prosecutors. If these folks fear not getting reelected, some will bend to the peoples will and by "people" I mean the squeakiest wheel (e.g. Al Sharpton??)

Things are not what they used to be 30+ years ago. The system is slowly turning against the people and there is no recourse. Now the talk about eliminating stand you ground? :fire:
 
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