How to keep ahold of your weapon in a conflict?

[NoobCannon]

God forbid it ever happens, but I'm paranoid about this.

My concern is if and when I need to draw my weapon, the attacker may notice this and try and take it from me. My budget's rather limited, so the only holster I have access to is an OWB Universal fit that's a bit too large for my pistol(Taurus PT840). I plan on getting a new, better one when funds permit, but I have to make do for now.

I'm not necessarily quick on the draw, and I have one rather bad experience from when I was younger and tried to defend myself from two attackers, and got a concussion, beat, and robbed. One of the reasons I got the pistol, I don't want that situation to ever play out again.

What are possible ways to keep an attacker at bay until the weapon is free and clear and you can attempt to regain control of the situation? I'm left-hand dominant, so almost everything I keep on me is on that side. My right side is relatively empty, and my vision is far from good on my right side(Remember how your parents told you not to play with a BB gun or you'll lose an eye? Mine didn't.)

I'm thinking on keeping a knife or a small can of pepper spray in my right pocket, but I figured you guys would have plenty of experience, and maybe some training techniques you could pass onto me so I can better protect myself. As stated above, my funds are limited, so I can't afford training classes or anything right at this moment, but if you know of someone who's good with real-world defense training in the Houston/Wharton area, I'll definitely keep them in mind when my funds free up.

Any tips, training, anything I can do on a minimal budget will be more than helpful.

 

[Nushif]

Hrm. So your question is how to keep someone off you while drawing, is that correct?

What *I* would do ... so don't take this too seriously is several things:

a) get in shape. A fall on your derriere or anywhere, really, hurts much less when you have some mass to cushion your bones and the like.
b) being in shape helps with your overall confidence and your ability to
c) give the guy a good hard straight shove. If you're drawing already, this isn't about assault charges anymore and a shove before you engage with your firearm is probably the least of your concerns.

I don't know, most of the scenarios we train for, even during something like areally aggressive roadstop usually end up with someone on the ground. Also, usually it takes more than one person to take down another in any kind of speedy way. I had a guy on the ground (due to me buttstroking him with his own gun) and shot his buddy with his gun as well, and they had to simulate kicking me off the poor dude simply because I acted first and he got too close to me.

Let's see what someone else has to say. 8)

 

[Averageman]

If you tie up in some sort of wrestling some sort of knife on your weak side pocket would be handy.
If you are serious about this I would get some H2H training and practise. Practise often, it will probobly get you in good physical shape far faster than going to a gym.
I can tell you a lot of it is mindset..Remember the guy in Pvt Ryan who saw his buddy going down to the german soldier about to stab him? You might be surprised how some people react. The complete opposite was a guy I saw outclassed, out weighed and 6 inches shorter than his attacker close the distance and bite him on the nose. A lot of surviving is in the mind.

 

[Crusader103]

Here are a couple of techniques. By no means covering the wide range of possible scenarios, it should give you a place to start.

From standing

Assuming you carry strong side (in your case left side), maintain a slightly bladed stance with your strong foot slightly back. Lean slightly forward in a defensive position. There is no trick to this as it is a basic fighting stance.

As your strong hand comes up for the draw your reaction hand also comes up but strikes the subject. Draw your weapon to a retention position, basically just enough to clear leather as you orient the muzzle on the threat. Having struck the subject as you drew your weapon you can place fast shots on target from a retention position. You can continue to use your reaction hand to block incoming blows, etc, as in the picture below, while you fire. Be sure to cant your weapon out slightly to prevent the slide from striking you as it moves rearward. It wouldn't really hurt but may cause a malfunction.

While seated in a vehicle, such as a carjacking

If someone opens your car door, as in a car jacking, the first instinct might be to lean towards the center of your interior, away from the subject. For those who carry on the right side (though I understand you are a lefty), this can create a problem. That is because as you crouch towards the interior of your vehicle the weapon may become trapped and the draw inhibited.

For that reason, and to conceal the draw, I recommend (including to lefties) leaning towards the attacker. This can be done either in active resistance or as a feigning compliance technique.

If you are actively resisting you are basically attacking the attacker as you lean out, opening up your weapon side (for right hand carriers) for a faster draw. Between you, your steering wheel, the door, and the roof of the vehicle all obscuring the attackers vision he will not see your weapon until it is too late. Again, as you draw maintain the weapon in a retention position and place your shots with the weapon slightly canted outward.

If you are feigning compliance the technique is basically the same. You are simply saying, "yes sir, anything you want" as you lean out of the vehicle. I recommend dramatically leaning your upper body out (not so much as to fall out of the vehicle but do not maintain upright) to conceal your waistline as much as possible. Between your feigned compliance and concealing the view you will be able to draw your weapon and fire before the attacker can react.

The technique is the same for left handed shooters though may be modified slightly to allow for the draw and maintaining as much concealment and surprise effect as possible.

 

[NoobCannon]

Thanks for the pointers guys, those are definitely going into my training.

 

[bubba in ca]

Jab him in the eyes or throat with your off hand, take one step to the side and fire.

 

[BikerRN]

SIMPLE ANSWER:

shoot!​

 

[sidheshooter]

I'm not one to recommend training DVDs over actual training but, that said, I do like my training DVDs too, yes I do. Better than nothing until you can afford some hands-on instruction, fer sure.

Here's two ideas to start. I'm sure others with different collections here will be able to recommend some more.

http://www.paladin-press.com/product/Extreme_Close-Quarters_Shooting/Handguns

http://www.paladin-press.com/product/Combative_Pistol/Handguns

 

[NoobCannon]

BikerRN, it's kinda hard to shoot if the attacker just ripped your gun out of your grasp now, isn't it? That's the whole purpose of my questions, to make sure he CAN'T get my weapon from me in a fight.

 

[mljdeckard]

Get some training in retention.

 

[BikerRN]

BikerRN, it's kinda hard to shoot if the attacker just ripped your gun out of your grasp now, isn't it? That's the whole purpose of my questions, to make sure he CAN'T get my weapon from me in a fight.

Very true.

I misread your post and responded with a glib, and unhelpful answer. To be honest I look at the firearm as part of the whole package. By that I mean, hand to hand, retention/disarming, knife skills, and various other tools.

There are simple, but very effective, retention techniques that can be learned that help one to confront that connundrum. For reading material I would start with "Street Survival, by Paladin Press. There are numerous DVD's on the market s well, but nothing replaces hand's on instruction.

Good luck in your search for answers.

BikerRN

 

[skifast]

Practice a few simple combatives. My go to technique is to put my hands up, open handed and say something like I don't want any trouble. Then explosively, without winding up, hit him with a chin jab with my left hand(I draw with my right). Basically, it is hitting the chin in an upward motion with the palm. The natural effect will be to move the guy backwards. He may go down, he may bite his tongue, his teeth may break, but he will shift his weight backwards.

As soon a I strike, I move backwards in a bladed stance, draw to the center axis relock high position or extended(if the strike knocks him down). At this point, I can shoot if necessary. The high position is very strong for retention.

 

[robmkivseries70]

Practice self defense techniques with your weak side hand so that you can keep your pistol hand and the pistol out of reach. I know that is a lot to ask. Ideally, you never let 'them' get that close. Here, being observant and avoiding trouble, are a key part of your tool box.
Best of luck.
Rob

 

[Cosmoline]

My biggest concern in this area is a very stupid or crazy person who's not armed but is still attacking me. If I shoot him, I've got a dead unarmed man there. I think that's the scenario for using retention and non-deadly force to get distance. In a true mugging where they're armed with something to beat you if nothing else, shooting becomes necessary.

I don't like the idea of trying to both keep a firearm in one hand and use some kind of spray in the other. Too many things to keep straight in too short a time.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

This topic is covered in many pistol classes. If you haven't done so, I'd reccomend saving up and attending some. IMO, formal training classes are the next best investment besides the firearm itself.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

If you are in a situation as you describe a good shove with the weak hand is always a good way to go. Also, take some steps back (if you have room) to create more distance after the shove.

Learn close combat shooting techniques where you pretty much fire from the hip just make sure you angle the weapon enough the slide does not strike you or clothing causing a malfunction. It can be done very accurately at the ranges you are thinking about with just a little practice.

Remember a subject closing on you reaching for your weapon is an imminent threat and in most cases you are justified in shooting especially if you are out numbered... You can easily explain how you were in fear for your life/safety with multiple attackers or even just one who reaches for your gun. What would a normal person expect the guy to do when he gets your gun? Hand it back to you saying just messin bro or shoot you with it? I think we all think the later would be the most likely so you'd definatly be GTG for self defense shooting even if he was not armed at the time.

Overall the best thing you can do.... BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS SO YOU SEE THE THREAT EARLY. A defenisve mindsent will will save you faster then any expensive training classes. If you keep your head up and see the threat before he's right up on your ass you have the chance to react sooner, move to cover, put something between you and the threat (= more time), draw without fear of being disarmed or you can retreat before a incident even takes place.

 

[unwise11]

If you have time to punch the person in the mouth... Go for it.
If they are still a threat you can shoot them.

 

[lemaymiami]

As a retired cop with a bit of a training background that whole weapons retention/close quarters stuff is something that you have to work on constantly. The stats on officers (and by extension, everyone else) are very striking. Far too many cops are killed with their own guns, and anyone carrying is in the same situation. Rarely will you have that perfectly clear cut defensive situation with an easy choice to make. If you allow a potential opponent into close proximity you're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage....

To keep things simple... keep your distance if at all possible in any possible confrontation. Give yourself room to maneuver while keeping your weapon side away from any potential threat (my favorite move is turn weapon side away and my weapon hand also so any aggressor can't be certain what stage of "ready for action" he/she is facing). By keep your distance I mean any way you have to... None of this involves any threats or threatening action on your part - just defensive, and serious about it. If you allow a threat to get close enough to touch you, then you've made a grave error...

As far as the actual techniques for physical weapons retention and possible use in a struggle, that old book Street Survival was my basic tutorial back in the stone age (early 80's, I was a veteran by then but still had far too much to learn...). Remember as well that if you're faced with a knife attack you may have to actually run backwards while responding with your sidearm to successfully defend yourself without being cut or stabbed. We proved over and over again in training that a knife attacker could reach any of our officer before they could draw and fire if the assailant could close inside of 7 meters before making his charge...

The most basic consideration in a potential armed encounter is the ground you're standing on... What physical barriers can you keep between you and an aggressor? Face it --John Wayne is dead and standing out in the open in any kind of potential armed encounter is likely to end up badly for the good guys. In real life a gunshot wound (if you survive) has lifetime consequences.... If you can "set the stage" or "pick your ground" in a serious encounter you greatly reduce the incentive for the bad guy to make his move. If the balloon goes up and things get nasty you want every advantage on your side (no such thing as a fair fight on the street, ever....).

We used to drill into our officers over and over again that the weapon they carried was the single biggest threat to their personal safety. I think that's something everyone that carries legally should remember. Fail to do that and an aggressor doesn't even need to bring a weapon to the attack he/she will have yours....

 

[tazbigdog]

Couple of thoughts...

1. Get into shape
2. Know your gun and holster
3. Get proficient with firing your gun from left hand and right hand
4. Pick up plastic replica of your gun and same type holster
5. Find a friend who is in better shape than you.
6. Have your friend try to take away your gun. Fight against him, protect your gun and if in fear of life, yell bang, bang, bang, simulating firing your gun and ending the threat.

Weapon retention!

 

[Cop Bob]

lemaymiami summed it up pretty well...

to add: If he has a visible weapon that he is in control of (in his hand not in his waistband) distance is your friend... If he do has just shown a weapon or is coming at you and appears to be unarmed or multiple attackers... weapon side away, try and put distance between you and them, yell your head off, and draw your weapon and try and get the hell outta Dodge...

If he is on you, your in trouble... any port in a storm.. bite, kick, gouge, scream... what ever you have to do... by all means if you can't draw and shoot, do all you can to keep it secured and not be used against you...