How to learn about different handguns?

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JH22

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San Jose, CA
There’s a lot I don’t know about handguns. I’ve been shooting only about 5 months. (Mostly .22: I bought a Ruger Mk II). I’m looking for a website or book that provides good, basic information about different handguns. My questions are along the lines of:

What’s the difference between a .380 and a .38?
What’s so special about a .38 special?
Can you really shoot .38 ammo out of .357 Magnum guns?
What does the ACP mean after .45 ACP? How’s this different than a .45?
Why do I almost never hear of a .38 semi-automatic or a 9mm revolver?

Can you recommend any books that I can buy that explain this? How about websites?

Thanks,
J.
 
JH22; welcome aboard THR. This is probably THE best site that I know of for generalized firearms info. Use the search function for the forums and see what you come up with.

Always good to see another California member sound off.

You may want to also check out this thread: SF Bay Area Shoot 09-27-2003
 
The are "oodles" of books on firearms that can help you learn. Most of them, however, are NOT available at Barnes & Noble or the like. Here are some possible choices:

1. NRA Firearms Facts Book (National Rifle Association)
2. Small Arms of the World, by Ezell (out of print, but still available)
3. Hatchers' Notebook, by Julian Hatcher
4. The World's Great Small Arms, by Ian Hogg
5. Handguns and Rifles: The Finest Weapons from Around the World, by Ian Hogg

The NRA also offers a bunch of books for direct sale, and there may be titles there that I have not listed above that are quite useful.

The first book I listed above is probably the BEST single source of information for a novice gun user who wants to expand his/her knowledge. Many of the questions you raised in your post are answered directly in this book, along with LOTS of others of similar vein.
 
All of this is in general---in other words take it with a grain of salt---there seems to be exceptions for everything.



1. 380acp is for small auto pistols------.38 spc is for small revolvers

2.special about .38???---nothing---a marketing gimmick from the olden days.

3. .38 out of a .357---YES----but not the other way around.

4. ACP=Automatic Colt Pistol

5. .38 Super is an auto cartridge------SP101 in 9mm comes to mind first----there are exceptions to everything. A S&W .38spc target auto comes to mind also--------6 and one half dozen the other-----fickle tastes and marketing whims I guess???????
 
Welcome JH22,

Try these two sites for starters:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg00-e.htm

This site is a great web resource for most of the pistols (and other small arms) ever issued/manufactured in any quantity.

You can cruise around there for some info about cartridges as well.

I also like this site as it deals with the actual effectiveness of current-issue pistol ammo as tested in ballistic gelatin.

www.ammolab.com

These won't answer all of your questions, but they're great for a start! :)

(btw, yes, you can shoot .38special bullets out of a .357 magnum in addition to regular .357magnum loads.)
 
You can always type "ACP" or whatever into a search engine. Usually one of the hits will be some sort of informational sight.

Also, go the B&N after Christmas and pick up a couple "Guns of the World" or similar picture book titles. While full of inaccurasies, they usually go to some lengths to explain common terms and how things work.

Perusing gun magazines can yield a fact or two (if you can recognize them in all the crap).


Whenever you have contrary data, ask here.
 
Your questions were already answered pretty well, but I just thought I'd compound on a couple of them:

What’s the difference between a .380 and a .38?

A .380 is an auto cartridge. It is mostly rimless like a 9mm. The .380 uses the same diameter bullet as the 9mm, but it has a shorter case therefore giving it less case volume for powder and lower power compared to the 9mm. The 9mm is often referred to as 9X19 or 9mm Parabellum. The .380 and the 9mm bullets are both .355 in diameter. The .38 special and .357 magnum bullets are both .357 in diameter.

The .380 is also referred to as the 9X17, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Browning Short, ect.

The only real difference between a .380 and 9mm aside from the power is the size of the case. The .380 being 17mm and the 9mm being 19mm.

Why do I almost never hear of a .38 semi-automatic or a 9mm revolver?

The rimmed case of revolver cartridges does not lend itself well to functioning reliably in auto pistols. There are some autopistols that fire revolver cartridges, the .357 Coonan and Desert Eagle come to mind, but for the most part this is not very common.

The 9mm cartridge is an auto cartridge and is not really meant from revolvers, but the front of the case has a slight rim so it is possible to make 9mm revolvers, although extraction has always been an issue. Moonclips are generally used to load and extract the spent shells, but are not necessary depending on which 9mm revolver you have.

There are 9mm revolvers out there, but there are none currently in production. Some would argue that the Ruger SP-101 9mm revolver is in current production in limited quantities, but they generally get shipped overseas. You can find them around if you look a little bit.

S&W has made a couple of different 9mm revolvers, but they weren't much of a success so they stopped production. They are a little bit harder to find than 9mm SP-101's, but you can find them as well if you look around a little.

Taurus is planning on making a 9mm revolver and originally they were due out this Summer, but they've changed the release date to 4th quarter 03', so I probably wouldn't look to see any at least for a few months yet, but you never know.

There's also some Charter Arms 9mm revolvers out there as well, but I'm not sure if any are 9X19 I think they're in some weird 9mm flavor like 9mm Largo.
 
IMO

You're other questions got answered, so I'll address the one subjective question you asked.

What’s so special about a .38 special?
Click to expand...

Whats special about the .38 special?

IMO:

Low recoil (not much worst than a .22 LR when fired in a medium frame revolver), excellent accuracy in general, and relatively cheap cost (at least when compared to OTHER centerfire ammo). Now keep in mind I'm partial to .38 special as it is my favorite handgun round to target shoot with--I'm also a huge fan of its slightly longer cousin, the .357 magnum.


As far as performance, there is very little special about the .38 special. It gets anemic energies, especially when you consider how much powder it could potentially hold. If one needs an efficient use of power and decent energy levels out of a revolver, then you move up to the .357 magnum, or even a larger magnum.
 
So if I wanted to take a step up in a target pistol, should I get a .38 special revolver, or should I get a .357 revolver and shoot .38 special ammo through it for better economy?

Are there any .357 revolvers that excel at firing both calibers?
 
Most .357 are more accurate when firing .38s, in my experience.

The 'Special' was mainly to distinguish this new round from the previous .38 loadings.
 
So if I wanted to take a step up in a target pistol, should I get a .38 special revolver, or should I get a .357 revolver and shoot .38 special ammo through it for better economy?

Are there any .357 revolvers that excel at firing both calibers?
Click to expand...

In theory, you lose a tad bit of accuracy when firing a .38 special out of a .357 magnum revolver. In practice though, I get excellent accuracy from both cartridges when fired out of my .357 magnum revolvers.

Any Ruger or S&W .357 magnum should give you good accuracy with BOTH cartridges. If you want a target pistol, get a .357 magnum revolver with about a 6-inch barrel (the longer sight radius is better for target shooting) and start off with firing .38 specials with it. Once you master that cartridge, you can always move up to .38 speciall +P and then .357 magnum if you want more power one day. And yes, .38 specials are more economic......you can find great prices in that cartridge.
 
Hit the bargin racks at your local book store, lots to be found there. Also, spend a few hours a day cruising THR, it works for me.

And FWIW, when the .38 special first came out, there was alot special about it.
 
Your first question is one that took me a while to completely understand -- there are lots of ".38" calibers. Where this gets confusing is that the size of the bullet is sometimes used for the designation, other times the size of the case is used.

.380 ACP(or 9x17), 9mm Parabellum (or 9x19, 9mm Luger), .38 Super, 9x21, and 9x23 all use a .355" bullet. the difference is the case length, and I just listed them from shortest to longest.

Then you have 9mm Makarov (also called 9x18), but this actually uses a bullet that is .365" .

Then you have the revolver cartridges: .38 Special and .357 Magnum. These both use a bullet .357" in diameter. The difference is that .38 Spl is shorter than .357 Mag.

ACP is for Automatic Colt Pistol. Most of these ACP calibers were designed by The Great One, John M. Browning. Some of these are .25 ACP, .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and .45 ACP.

There is no difference between .45 and .45 ACP in the general sense. What I mean is that when someone refers to a .45, they usually just mean .45 ACP (the bullet designed for the Model 1911 Pistol).*

There are other .45 calibers out there, like .45 Long Colt, but this is a revolver (and rifle) chambering (think cowboy revolvers and rifles).
There are others that are usually just rifle cartridges, like .45/70, .45/110, etc. but I have very little experience with any of them.

-------------------------

*I'll probably mess up some of the details, so maybe someone will correct me. During the conflict in the Phillipines, there were supposedly a good number of U.S. soldiers getting cut up by Filipinos that were hopped-up on some wacky stuff. Their .38 Colt revolvers (yep, another .38!) wouldn't faze them enough.

So, the FedGov decided that they wanted a new gun, a single-action automatic that could be operated one-handed while on horseback. They required that it be chambered for a 230-grain (that's bullet weight) .45 caliber bullet. This cartridge (as its final incarnation, the .45 ACP)was designed for one purpose: to kill human beings ASAP.

A few changes were made, I'm not sure what all of them are, but it ended up being adopted, after the 1911 proved itself very well. I don't know much about the tests that were given to it, so I'll let someone with more knowledge step in here.

Welcome to the High Road, friend.

Wes

Edited for spelling.
 
Last edited:
Do's:
Hang out here and ask stupid questions. The stupidest question I ever asked was, "What do gas operated guns do when they run out of gas" :eek: You learn a lot just by hanging around even if you don't learn at a linear rate.

Don'ts:
1. Play Counterstrike. You can play it for fun, but don't carry any of your gun knowledge over from it. It's Desert Eagle, not 'Deagle' :p
2. Watch movies and television. You can watch it for fun, but there's a reason why they call it 'entertainment'. Reality shows aren't. All bullets kill cops. 'Armor' is relative, therefore all rifle bullets are 'armor piercing'.

By the way, WELCOME!!!! :)
 
JH22, I suggest you go to http://www.chuckhawks.com

When you get there, click on "Guns&Shooting Online".

I think you will find the articles there to be excellent for a newbie. I did. And the author- Chuck Hawks- even answers email. Say hello for me if you email him.

Fumegator- I'm from the Philippines and actually you got the history almost right. Yes, the .38 was found to lack stopping power - some of the Filipinos who attacked U.S. Army troopers were high on some drug, but others were simply high on religion - Islam : the attacks were in the Southern Philippines which is where most Muslim Filipinos live. Also, the Muslims used bamboo and wood etc. armor around their bodies, and wooden shields (but these days such armor isn't very effective- modern rifle rounds are simply too powerful). But such armor can and did stop .38 rounds used in battle at that time (1899- 1905?).

The .45 cartridge that was the immediate remedy to this state of affairs was the .45 long colt, a powerful cartridge. The .45 ACP did not come into existence until about 1907-8, when Browning was developing his big-bore semi-auto, and of course this pistol was not officially adopted by the U.S. Army until 1911, hence its name. It, too, stopped charging Muslim warriors.

So it is true that stopping the Filipino warriors required a .45 - the .45 long colt, and then the .45ACP. There is nothing like the momentum of a heavy bullet to STOP an attacker. A small bullet may kill him too, but not soon enough, not before he takes your head off with one hell of a nasty sword.
 
Thanks for the clarification, antediluvianist. History is so interesting! :D

As a sidenote -- when I said:
.380 ACP(or 9x17)... all use a .355" bullet.
Click to expand...

This is somewhat misleading, as the .380 uses bullets of a different weight than 9mm. I don't have any experience with 9x21 or 9x23, so I'm not sure about their bullet weight.

Wes
 
JH22,

I am of the theory that you do not need to just consider a revolver as your "upgrade". Since you already own (and practice with) a .22LR, you should also consider purchasing a good semiauto. (don't no one flame me, I already own a .357)

You are asking the right questions. Enjoy yourself!

Just noticed that you live in SJ. Why not go to Reeds and rent a few for comparisons sake?
 
Actually the .38 special was special when it first came out because it was more powerfull than the .38's on the market at that time period.
There really wasn't a .45 long Colt. It's name is .45 Colt. There is a .45 Smith and Wesson (or S&W Schofield) that was used in the same time period which caused some people to distinquish between the 2 catridges as a long or short version.
There's soon to be another .45 to be added, the .45 Glock.
Chuck Hawks only seem to quote from various reloading manuals ( and yes I have read several of his articles and am not impressed).
Cartridges can be confusing at first. A good reference is "Cartridges of the World" by Frank Barnes. This book catalogues most of the present and obsolete cartridges produced.

Note: not all .38sp revolvers are small revolvers. Many have been built on medium frames and some were built on large frames in the past.
The .45/70 is also chambered in a handgun. Specialized yes, but a handgun non the less. The BFR as a classic example.

Welcome to the sometimes confusing, often complicated, but always intriquing world of Handguns.
 
The best tool for learning is time.
My whole family is full of shooters.
I got it worse than the rest of them.
I have been reading, listening and learning about guns since I was old enough to know what one was.
More often than not, the best way to learn is to find someone who knows alot about guns and listen to what they say.
I have learned alot since I started here, as have many others.
I knew some stuff when I got here too, but it is still a pretty good place to start.
 
Also

The .38 special is longer and slighly more powereful than the original .38 s&w cart. so I guess that's why they called it special.;)
 
.38's

It seems that back ing the 1800 there was such a big rivalry between Colt & Smith & Wesson, probably due to S&W getting that silly Roland White patent that allowed them to use Metallic cartridges instead of that wonderful loose powder, bullet and percussion cap stuff, that the companies only made revolvers for their own cartridges.

That explains the .32 Colt and the .32 S&W cartridges. It seems that the S&W version was usually just a little bigger in diameter so their ammo wouldn't fit in a Colt and that the Colt wouldn't be satisfactory or safe in a S&W. The same with the .38 S&W & the .38 Colt.

Whereas the .32 S&W (and it's younger/bigger brother the .32 S&W Long) became the most popular it was just the opposite with the .38. The .38 Colt (and likewise the .38 Long Colt) became the most popular. To further confuse things here never was a .38 S&W long.

Even though the Army learned that the .38 Long Colt was no match for angry Moro warriors with their testes bound, back home metropolitan police forces were changing fron .32s to .38s. Aroung 1909, S&W came up with the idea of a better .38 so they lengthened the .38 Long Colt case and came up with, what was called at the time, the .38 S&W Special.

Then around 1935 S&W and Remington lengthened the .38 Special case another 0.1" and created the .357 Magnum. So you can safely fire .38 Colt (aka .38 Short Colt), .38 Long Colt and .38 Special in a .357 Magnum. The .38 S&W can only be fired in a .38 S&W chamber due to a slightly larger diameter. And don't worry I won't even begin to confuse you any further by mentioning the .357 maximum.

The misnomer .45 Long Colt comes from the fact that all of the other Colt/S&W cartridges came in a long version. But in the case of the .45s the difference is the .45 Colt is longer than the .45 S&W (aka .45 Schofield).

:what:

As for .38 automatics there are millions of them, most are just known as 9mm.

As for the various 9mm's... well that's a whole other story.

:D
 
If you've got questions, just ask them here :cool:

This was already covered, but what the heck:


"What’s the difference between a .380 and a .38?"

.380, as stated, is meant for use in automatics, while .38 is for revolvers. Both names are misleading, because neither round has a diameter of .38



"What’s so special about a .38 special? "

Nothing. For some reason it's really popular, but I don't think it's all that great. I'd much rather have a .357, about the only gun that would be better in .38 is the super light 5 shot revolvers. One of those in .357 would kick pretty hard, I think. I've never shot one so I don't know for sure...




"Can you really shoot .38 ammo out of .357 Magnum guns?"

Yes, but I hear that shooting .38s out of a .357 rifle doens't always work. Again, I've never done it, so I don't know for sure



"What does the ACP mean after .45 ACP? How’s this different than a .45?"

Auto Colt Pistol. I do see the apeal of .45 ACP, it has a good repuation as a "man stopper". It is more "specal" than .38 if you ask me...

Anyway, .45 ACP isn't the only caliber with an "ACP" in the name. There are .25, .32, and .380 ACPs. The "ACP" in the name helps you tell the differance better auto and revolver rounds. For example, .32 S&W is a revolver round, and .32 ACP is a auto round. Both are .32's, but they can't be fired from the same guns.


Why do I almost never hear of a .38 semi-automatic or a 9mm revolver?

Again, as said above, it is due to the rims of the cases. You pretty much have to have rimmed cases if it's going to work in a revlover...

And you didn't ask about this, but you should proably know so I'll talk about it. In other countrys, you'll see calibers with 2 numbers, for example, 9X18. The first number is the diameter of the bullet, in mm, the second number is the length of the casing. .380 ACP and 9X17 are the same round, and 9mm Luger is the same as 9X19. This also goes for rifle rounds. 7.62 X39 for example, is what the AK and SKS shoot. And then sometimes they add letters onto the end, for example, 7.62 X 54 R. I think the "R" means "rimmed", this is what the Nagant bolt action rifle shoots. In case you were wondering, 7.62 mm = .30 caliber
 
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