How Wisconsin Almost Hurt/Killed My Wife

[FireBreather01]

I am so sick and tired of this state's non-carry situation. Although my wife is not an enthusiastic gunner, and at times a bit more ambivalent than I would like (I've tried!) with regards to firearms rights, she recognizes the necessity of being armed and if legal, she would carry. There is no way she would ever carry illegally - as in without a permit.

A few days ago she stopped by the cemetary where her parents are interred - about 3:00 pm. No other people or vehicles were in sight. As she pulled in and got out of our Suburban to go and sit next to her parents grave she noticed a van that pulled around her and parked about 30 yards ahead of her location. There were two men in the van and they parked in an area where there are no graves sites. The Van had IL tags.

One guy got out and the other stayed in the van. He approached my wife in a slow and somewhat winding manner and she started to get nervous. She noticed that he stopped at none of the graves and when he got about 30' from her she stood up and loudly said "That's far enough! - stay there!!!" She grabbed a metal stake from the ground and began back tracking toward the Suburban which was also about 30' away - at 90 degrees to her left from the position of the guy. The guy began stammering something about they only stopped to tell her that her brake light was out - it is. Now putting myself in the situation of the guys - if they truly wanted to tell her about her brake-light, fine - you stop, roll the window down, tell her and be on your way. I would never approach a woman, or any stranger for that matter, that way. Clearly, they were up to no good.

Anyway, she made her way back the car, locked up and headed out. Then the guys blocked the only exit for about 3 minutes - not letting her pass. She could have easily made it out by driving through a shallow ditch but eventually they drove off. WHY she didn't call the police at that point is beyond me - she said she was afraid she was making a big deal out of nothing (I know, I know...). And she wasn't close enough to get the plate number.

Now I know there are a host of things my wife did wrong - basically in condition white, or worse, until the guy got far too close, she didn't retreat back to the the car when she noticed the guy get out, didn't call the PD, etc, etc - we've talked about all of those things. My point is that this is at least the 3rd time she has had an experience like this. And she suffers from very bad arthritis and she does not move quickly or easily, in short she's an easy target for a BG. Eerily, the same thing happened at another cemetary years ago when she was 'visiting' a friend that had recently passed. That was an even more ominous situation as both guys got out and approached from opposite directions. She ran back to the car when she noticed them before they got too close.

My point is that she would carry if she has a permit, but this state won't allow it. And really, I hate to even have to consider to have to ask her to do something that is illegal and could end up with her sitting in a local PD waiting for me to pick her up. I know she could have avoided this if she had been more aware and taken more decisive action but in the end, the predators are out there and it would be nice if she had a firearm at her side if and when situations like this happen again.

I wonder if Governor Doyle would apologize to me if anything had happened to her.

 

[TallPine]

she's an easy target for a BG

I'm not sure that's quite true ...

when he got about 30' from her she stood up and loudly said "That's far enough! - stay there!!!" She grabbed a metal stake from the ground

Anyway, until CCW gets passed in WI, maybe she could carry a Maglite or pepper spray or even a steel stake. And get her one of those big mammoth steel grill guards for the Suburban

 

[psychophipps]

If she was aware of them getting out of the car from almost 100 feet away, approaching her slowly and had armed herself when they reached about 30 feet away then she was most definitely not in "Condition White"! Condition White is best decribed as "blissful ingorance of your surroundings" and your description is so far from that status as to be laughable in your (ab)using of the term. If this aforementioned descriptor was part of your discussion on this matter I, and I'm certain she, would very much take it as a great favor if you would apologize to her.

She used what she had at hand, was aware of the situation from initiation to conclusion and didn't get hurt.

Give credit where credit is due, please...
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

 

[Ovid]

Even if Doyle would apologize to you if something happened to your wife, what good would it do?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Why is it Wisconsin's fault the wife still lives the state?

Why is it Winconsin's fault the wife has no situational awareness?

Why is it Wisconsin's fault the wife doesnt' have any other self defense training? So no karate, tai kwon d'oh, judo, pugilism, or the like?

Why is it Winconsin's fault the wife was completely unarmed and made use of a surrounding materials because she wasn't armed. Where was her knife? Where was her pepper spray?

Where was her cell phone. She was in her vehicle and blocked into a cemetery by another vehicle and she didn't call 911?

No, Wisconsin is not at fault here. There are many things that could have been done by the wife long in advance of this event that she never bothered to do. Since she isn't going to bother with putting forth any effort, why should the state put forth the effort for her? Even if the state did allow concealed carry, from the sounds of it, the gun would have been at home or in the vehicle. Had she had it on her person, she probably would not have been very skilled with it. Sure it might have given her a chance, but so too would a myriad of other options she failed to exercise.

 

[v8fbird]

Move to NH.

 

[brazz1]

I'm glad to hear that nothing worse happened.

It makes alot of sense that you prefer that she could be better armed, for potentially bad situations like that. Alot of guys have bought their ladies a gun/weapon for the same reason.

Does anyone know why, exactly Wisconsin prohibits CC?

btw, I imagine you already told her, but if she's ever really worried about her safety, she should definitely call the police.

 

[XLMiguel]

Can your wife say, "Ramming speed"?

Glad things turned out OK, but as you know, she shoulda been on the phone to the cops, embarassment is nothing compared to rape, death & dismemberment. The whole situation just sounds too creepy to warrant civil behavior. IMO, if more citizens were more proactive against the creep, perhaps they'd be less agressive. Unfortunately, liberal courts go out of their way to protect the 'rights' of the terdballs. . . .

I do, indeed, wish there was a legal way to hold politicans, parole boards, and judges responsible for their lapses in 'judgement' (e.g. the judge who refused a woman in PG County a retraining order against her husband who set her on fire ), something more eminent and effective than the ballot box, but that's how it is for now.

 

[gezzer]

She did well,she survived.

Next time have her call the PD so the BG don't find another victim. They did not stop looking after she got away.

 

[gunsmith]

I know why!

Does anyone know why, exactly Wisconsin prohibits CC?

The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall.

- Adolph Hitler, Edict Of March 18, 1938., In Politics/Nazism

 

[slabsides]

From what I gather, Wisconsin lady is a middle-aged arthritic woman, not a hot-shot Rambo double-oooo spy type.
All things considered, she responded as well as she could. I for one will not criticise her, nor make assumptions I'm not entitled to, about what she would have/could have done.
She survived the encounter unhurt. I say good for her.

 

[FireBreather01]

If she was aware of them getting out of the car from almost 100 feet away, approaching her slowly and had armed herself when they reached about 30 feet away then she was most definitely not in "Condition White"!

Your point is well-taken and you're correct - as part of my rant I guess I was referring to the fact that I would have preferred that she reacted immediately to an out-of-state vehicle with two men in it who parked in an area where there were clearly no graves and then one of the guys started approaching as soon as he got out of the van. And she said she had really paid no attention to them until she noticed the guy was half way between her and their van. I'm more suspicious by nature - she's not, and by 'white' I guess I just meant that she had no suspicion of their actions until he was within 'striking' distance. But, as you said, she was at least vaguely aware of them and increased her awareness as the situation progressed.

Also, I was impressed with the fact that she heeded our previous conversations about issuing sharp commands in situations like that. In fact, she surprised me a bit that she kept her wits and did in fact use the exact words we had discussed previously. In the end, she did do well and the guy was clearly stunned by her commands and grabbing the stake.

My overall point, and DNS' 'suggestions' not withstanding - is that she is small, has problems walking, and could be overpowered quite easily. I've had training in martial arts, boxing, etc and I've trained and sparred with many, many women, including some female LEOs - in my experience there aren't many women of her size that could withstand a determined attack by a stronger, more violent attacker. A CCW would go a long way toward leveling the playing field, especially for someone of her stature and physical condition, and it upsets me that WI does not allow that option.

Why is it Wisconsin's fault the wife still lives the state?

I keep asking myself that more and more every day! In the end - both of our families live here, I have a great job, kids are in school, etc but with the taxes and anti-freedoms atmosphere here I find that I yearn more and more for finding a home in a state more conducive to my own principles. I keep thinking that if we vote Doyle out of office in November then we'll have a fighting chance at improving these things.

Thanks for your replies!

 

[sturmruger]

I am stuck here in WI as well so I know how you feel

The good news is if we can replace Doyle on the 7th of November we have a very good chance of passing RTC here in WI. Do what you can to help out go to www.nra-ila.org to find the local Election Volunteer Coordinator in your area they will be able to get you hooked up with a campaign person in your area.

 

[AJ Dual]

Does anyone know why, exactly Wisconsin prohibits CC?

Like many other states WI's prohibition on concealed carry came about in the antebellum period right after the Civil War. Since we're so far north, it's hard to say it was directly racialy motivated for sure. And I don't know that there wasn't a particular instance of a heinous crime or a rash of crimes that created the push, or that it wasn't copy-cat legislation from other states passing thier bans.

However, most states began passing thier bans (With a wink and a nod to anyone who was both white, and of means...) either right after the Civil War, when certain ethnic minorites suddenly had equal status, or when mass immigration began, like New York's Sullivan Law.

 

[brazz1]

Interesting, thanks AJ.
That type of prohibition seems pretty damn antiquated at this point.

 

[TCB in TN]

Last time I checked

Wisconsin was still part of the US and as such "should" protect the rights of all of its citizens. And as for Judo, karate and such, not to many men are going to fight off 2 attackers H2H, why should anyone expect a lone woman to do it? I would certainly suggest that she take the opportunity to arm herself however she legally can. As far as moving goes, I would hate to leave all of my family, but if it is that dangerous up there then I would have to consider it. Oh BTW, all of us here in TN welcome law abiding folks from great white north and if you did decide to look for a new home we would be happy to share the semi free state that most of us live in.

 

[JohnKSa]

So, was the taillight really out?

 

[FireBreather01]

So, was the taillight really out?

It was. But I think that was all that he could think to say when she told him to stop. IF it was the reason they stopped, why not just roll your window down and say something and be on your way? By blocking her exit for such a long time they showed they were not there on a good will mission.

 

[FireBreather01]

Oh BTW, all of us here in TN welcome law abiding folks from great white north and if you did decide to look for a new home we would be happy to share the semi free state that most of us live in.

Funny you should mention this - my bil and I were just discussing alternative residences and TN came up as one of the best options - weather, taxes, guns, terrain, etc.

 

[Dacoda]

I agree that your wife did great. I know some people who are ALWAYS in condition white, and it angers me. They wanna talk to everyone they see, start conversations with people they don't know. Nuh uh! Not me.

Your wife showed quick thinking by grabbing that stake. Had she NOT grabbed it, that guy would of more than likely made his move. Whatever his intentions would have been. And more than likely, those two morons sat in that van thinking of what to do now... but when they realized your wife wasn't a victim, they probably decided to find someone who really IS in condition white. You should be real proud. I think she has enough sense to defend herself if she finds herself in a worse situation.

 

[tepin]

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0941.pdf
It would appear that it is okay to "open carry" in WI but I surely wouldn’t want to test those waters. If something like what you have described has happened 3 times already, I would take a hard look at the areas you/wife are visiting and avoid them.

Two guys in a graveyard that aren’t carrying shovels?? Red flag! My general rule is to ALWAYS suspect ulterior motives of anyone that approaches me. Outside home and work, there is absolutely no reason for someone to speak to me. Good luck.

 

[Tomcat1066]

It sounds like your wife did fine. While she wasn't as suspicious as you would like, she kept note of his path and the unusual nature of the parking spot for a vehicle with out-of-state plates. Sure, there are things she should have done better, but who doesn't have things they could have done better in a situation like that?

I wish your wife could rub off on my wife.

Tom

 

[AndyC]

She was alert enough to notice a potential threat, she acted (which is more than most people do) and she got away in one piece.

Lessons were learned, perhaps, but Mrs Firebreather did good enough this time

 

[pax]

Firebreather ~

Don't be too hard on her, please. She did an absolutely wonderful job in seeing what was going on in time to react, in using a sharp command voice, in telling the guy exactly what she wanted him to do, in finding and making use of a weapon of opportunity, and in running away rather than staying there to chat. All of these things are actually rather rare responses to unexpected danger, and she deserves a pat on the back for them.

She might want to consider carrying pepper spray with her for next time (heaven forbid there is one). That is assuming, of course, that she's willing to take a class in how to use the stuff, including getting sprayed so she knows how her body will react to cross contamination.

Despite DNS's critical sarcasm, I'd certainly not suggest that an arthritic woman carry a knife, whether or not she's gotten training -- knife defense is an option for physically capable people with good hand strength who have significant amounts of training and practice in defensive knife use, and not for people with poor hand strength, limited speed, and limited range of hand or arm motion. As for "pugilism," that's just silly-stupid.

As for moving out of state, it's certainly not time to abandon the place yet, as it's really on the verge of recognizing human rights that should have been recognized all along. Consider this just one more impetus toward whatever political activism you're inclined to participate in -- and urge your wife to get involved as well. That's a form of self-defense, too.

pax

 

[Taurus 66]

My point is that she would carry if she has a permit, but this state won't allow it. And really, I hate to even have to consider to have to ask her to do something that is illegal and could end up with her sitting in a local PD waiting for me to pick her up.

Being caught CCW in Wisconsin would be bad enough ... worse if she actually had to shoot someone. OK no gun for now, but what about some other means of defense? What are the other options and would these be legal for carry in Wisconsin?