Quantcast

HP Cavity Pin

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by rodwha, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,581
    Location:
    Texas
    A fellow on the Remington 1858 forum has been testing custom hollow points. What he found was that using the standard ram will deform the cavity a bit even with slow easy pressure (not too badly but still does). What he then did was use an epoxy on an additional ram to create a pin.

    Unfortunately not much seems to go on there these days. I’ve messaged him but have yet to receive a response. This isn’t exactly common knowledge but I figured I’d ask anyway. Since there’s not a lot of clearance in the loading window can the pin be maybe half the depth and still hold the cavity in pristine shape? I don’t have the tools to cut it back nice and tidy.

    As an aside I’ve also been contemplating this hollow point cavity. I’ll go back over all he’s found and said but it seemed he found the perfect “wall” thickness to open up without breaking apart at the speed it will travel, but I’m wondering about the depth one might want. As is the design would start with a very wide meplat FN as this gives exceptional penetration with a nice over caliber permanent wound cavity, but there may well be times in which 2 feet or more of penetration isn’t needed or wanted, and times when a larger cavity might be ideal. We see modern premium hollow points tend to open up to 1.5 times the diameter and gives ~12” of penetration at similar speeds. Seems I might want more than that and so I might prefer a cavity that produces maybe 1.25 times the caliber. Curious how one might go about figuring out depth vs expansion/penetration. Any pointers or ideas or thoughts? Figured I’d go back to Accurate Molds and modify my design a bit in a 4 or 5 cavity mold and then send it to Hollow Point something-or-other and get 2 cavities modified.

    And maybe I’d like a shallow and a deeper version... Sometimes 12” of penetration with a big nasty wound is ideal too.

    Mostly this has been rolling around in my roomy head for my .44/.45 handguns, but I’ve also been thinking about the Colt Police with a 4.5” barrel and how it might be about as ideal as possible (I’d love it if I could have a 4 or 5 shot .50 cal instead as bigger is always better, right?) for a backpacking pistola where weight and size become an issue. But “knowing” what I “know” about the .380 ACP, which this nearly replicates with the right powder and short for caliber projectile, a common hollow point doesn’t seem to give the penetration one might want and a FMJ doesn’t provide the wound one might want. A WFN bullet or a shallow HP design?
     
  2. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,753
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Is there even enough velocity to make that much difference?
     
  3. arcticap

    arcticap Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6,946
    Location:
    Central Connecticut
    I was wondering the same thing.

    But whether it expands or not, TC made a hollow pointer kit with different shaped points that fit on the end of a conventional rifle ramrod.
    These points were designed to create a hollow point as the projectile was rammed into the rifle barrel.

    Perhaps a similar idea could be incorporated while loading projectiles into a cylinder.
    Except that maybe the hollow points would need to be formed with a hand punch after they're loaded into the chamber.
    Or at least they could be cleaned up if they become deformed.
    Maybe even a punch or a nail could be used to clean up any deformity in the hollow point.
    That would be an extra step.

    Or why not use a loading press and load off of the frame using a special attachment that doesn't deform the bullet tip.

    I've seen some folks experiment with rifle hollow points where they placed a BB inside the hollow point cavity.
    The BB was glued into the cavity I think, and helped the cavity to expand on impact.
    That's the same theory as to why some companies make expanding bullets with plastic tips.
    I guess that the plastic tip could serve 2 purposes, to be more aerodynamic and to aid expansion.
    But I think that those types of bullets require more velocity in order to expand.

    Adding a simple BB may be worth a try.
    If the bullet was going to expand at all at pistol velocity then maybe the BB would not interfere with that.

    I personally don't think that a slight bullet deformation should make much of a difference in bullet expansion or have much of an effect on accuracy.
    I tried to explore the options concerning that issue first if I even understood the issue correctly to begin with.
     
  4. whughett

    whughett Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,753
    Location:
    Rhode Island/Florida
    Or maybe the old fashion way of simply cutting an X in the nose with a knife:)…………………..
     
  5. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    260
    I have one of the t/c hollow point kits you referenced... bad idea, although I’m sure it made some money at t/c so it did fulfill its primary purpose. That of creating a functional hp centered on the ball or bullet and not affecting accuracy negatively? Not so much. It’s difficult to center for starters, actually, that’s the entire problem. I bought it for the.54 round ball rifle, dinked with it and never achieved satisfactory results and then one day I woke up and realized that the.54 round ball had been killing deer and elk with boring regularity all along.

    I also played with it in the old army and a few 1860 variants, round ball and conical, with less than sterling results. I think a wfn with a broad hollow point is a great idea. Make the ram fit the bullet and it will work just fine. One of these days I will get around to that too. Thank God I’m married to a patient woman.
     
    arcticap likes this.
  6. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    260
    @rodwha have you looked at this company? http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/shopping_cart.php

    Sizing might be the way we can get what we want... for instance , sizing a .40 caliber ball to .378 or .380 for the Navy pistols, or perhaps a 180 grain .38-40 Bullet for use in those pistols.
     
    rodwha likes this.
  7. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,581
    Location:
    Texas
    I have certainly heard of them but never dealt with them. Do they allow you to create your own designs like with Accurate?
     
  8. rodwha

    rodwha Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,581
    Location:
    Texas
    When it was tested it worked quite well. But that was after testing to figure out how thick the walls and deep the cavity was. It’s all a bit fuzzy so I don’t recall the details. Hoping he’ll respond to my message soon enough (not that I’m in a hurry).
     
    whughett likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice