HS-6 or 231? 9MM \ .40 S&W

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Nick C.

Nick C.

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Hello folks. I want to load up some 147 grain XTP \ 9MM, and 165 grain gold dot in .40.
The only two pistol powders I've been able to get my hands on are W231 and HS-6.
I would like to push the 147 grain XTP as fast as possible, (I know I probably won't get 1000+ fps out of a 4" barrel).

I'm leaning towards using the HS-6 for the 9MM and W231 for the .40 gold dot. Would this be the preferable choice for powders?
 
Welcome to THR. In general, slower pistol powders will be safer for full power high velocity loads. HS-6 is (relatively) a lot slower than 231 so would be a better choice for either cartridge if you’re looking for SD like loads.
You can still get decent velocity loads from 231 and your guns will tell you which one they prefer. You may also decide you like the felt recoil of one powder vs another. Good luck.
 
Nick C. said:
147 grain XTP \ 9MM, and 165 grain gold dot in .40 ... W231 and HS-6.

I would like to push the 147 grain XTP as fast as possible
Click to expand...
FYI, fastest velocity powders for 147 gr bullet from Speer load data (Sorted from fastest to slowest) - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__147_rev1.pdf
  • 9mm 147 gr Gold Dot HP Alliant BE 86 OAL 1.130" Start 4.5 gr (936 fps) - Max 5.1 gr (1027 fps)
  • 9mm 147 gr Gold Dot HP Alliant Blue Dot OAL 1.130" Start 5.1 gr (900 fps) - Max 5.8 gr (1001 fps)
  • 9mm 147 gr Gold Dot HP Hodgdon HS-6 OAL 1.130" Start 5.0 gr (845 fps) - Max 5.5 gr (956 fps)
From Hodgdon load data - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center
  • 9mm 147 gr Hornady XTP Winchester 231 COL 1.100" Start 3.0 gr (755 fps) - Max 3.4 gr (845 fps)

Speer 40S&W load data - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/40_Smith__Wesson_165.pdf
  • 40S&W 165 gr Gold Dot HP Alliant BE 86 OAL 1.120" Start 6.0 gr (1034 fps) - Max 6.8 gr (1144 fps)
  • 40S&W 165 gr Gold Dot HP Hodgdon HS-6 OAL 1.120" Start 8.0 gr (1012 fps) - Max 8.5 gr (1060 fps)
  • 40S&W 165 gr Gold Dot HP Winchester 231 OAL 1.120" Start 5.8 gr (955 fps) - Max 6.3 gr (1031 fps)
 
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Lennyjoe said:
Neither powder will get you moving very fast in 9MM. Below is Hornady’s 10th for their 147’s and 231 didn’t even make the list.

View attachment 1028501
Click to expand...

It's a shame I can't get my hands on any of the better powders for these loads. I've been hunting for a year and a half and they are perpetually out of stock, which we all obviously know. I'm just looking for anyone's idea of doing the best with what I have. It looks like 231 is a loser for both loads. I can still use it for my 124 grain loads I guess. Still going to stay on the hunt for some more suitable powder.
 
GONRA uses 231 for Suppressed Vector UZI loads (sounds like a woodpecker)
HS-6 for usual "UZI w/o a suppressor" blasting......
 
I loaded some 147fmj with 4.2gr of CFE Pistol and got 900fps. The same load got 1100fps in my Ruger PC carbine..
I could probably push 147's at 1000fps in my pistol with HS-6, but it would probably be getting in the danger zone.
If I want 1100fps or more with 147's, I'd use my PCC or else drop down to 124gr bullets.
 
I load a lot of 40S&W using HS-6 and feel its a good powder for the 165/180gr FP bullets, as for 9mm I tried it but HP-38/W231 is a lot better for 9mm IMO
 
I don’t know about 40S&W but 231 is my current favorite for 9mm. I’ve only used it and CFE Pistol. It seems more accurate and I’m not after top velocity. I use it with cast 9mm mostly. I don’t know about the other powder.

I got the CFE Pistol before the mess started. Pistol powder lasts a long time for me, & in general.
 
Lennyjoe said:
Neither powder will get you moving very fast in 9MM. Below is Hornady’s 10th for their 147’s and 231 didn’t even make the list.
Click to expand...

Actually HS-6 is the better powder according to Hornady as you point out , not neither powder is . OP only has 2 powders the answer is never neither unless both are complete unsuitable for the cartridge . Also define best , is it velocity , clean burning , less recoil . I find when reading post in these forums many don't realize there idea of best is not everyone's idea of best . According to Hodgdon in 9mm HS-6 get's you highest velocities but W231 is only 40fps slower on avg and will burn much cleaner . The general rule is the heavier the bullet for cartridge the slower the powder you want .

So the question in my mind is what are these bullets for and that will help the OP define best . Are they for self defense ammo or plinking at the range . Plinking at the range ? I'd say W-231 is better , SD ammo ? HS-6 might be a better choice but they both will work and I'd work up loads in both regardless .
 
Lennyjoe said:
unless he meant “as fast as possible” with only the powders he has.
Click to expand...

That's how I read it because there are many other/better powders to get max velocity . With the shortage as it is , suggesting pretty much any other powder then the OP has is pretty much moot .

Nick C. said:
I would like to push the 147 grain XTP as fast as possible, (I know I probably won't get 1000+ fps out of a 4" barrel)
Click to expand...

Correct 1000fps may be asking a bit much with a 147gr bullet out of a 4" 9mm . Might even be asking a bit much for any 147gr 9mm load . Buffalo bore probably has one but I personally wouldn't try matching there velocities in most cases .
 
joneb said:
Keep a eye out for Accurate #7, 135gr Xtreme plated RNFP and HP shot well in a 3.3"XDS with #7 at 1,030fps it was a duplicate load for the Hornady 135gr critical duty.
Click to expand...

That's nice, in my P938 I carry the 135 Critical Duty, good way to replicate the load for plinking.
 
Metal God said:
That's how I read it because there are many other/better powders to get max velocity . With the shortage as it is , suggesting pretty much any other powder then the OP has is pretty much moot .



Correct 1000fps may be asking a bit much with a 147gr bullet out of a 4" 9mm . Might even be asking a bit much for any 147gr 9mm load . Buffalo bore probably has one but I personally wouldn't try matching there velocities in most cases .
Click to expand...

Yeah it's been said that they probably use proprietary powders to get higher velocities, which is why I would be fine pushing it within realistic boundaries.
It would be nice to get some powder that will get me above the HS-6 and W231 velocity ratings, which are in the 700-800s. If a lot of the better expanding projectiles were available as well as powders I'd probably be loading right now and not asking these kind of questions lol. But I have what I have for now :)
 
Metal God said:
Actually HS-6 is the better powder according to Hornady as you point out , not neither powder is . OP only has 2 powders the answer is never neither unless both are complete unsuitable for the cartridge . Also define best , is it velocity , clean burning , less recoil . I find when reading post in these forums many don't realize there idea of best is not everyone's idea of best . According to Hodgdon in 9mm HS-6 get's you highest velocities but W231 is only 40fps slower on avg and will burn much cleaner . The general rule is the heavier the bullet for cartridge the slower the powder you want .

So the question in my mind is what are these bullets for and that will help the OP define best . Are they for self defense ammo or plinking at the range . Plinking at the range ? I'd say W-231 is better , SD ammo ? HS-6 might be a better choice but they both will work and I'd work up loads in both regardless .
Click to expand...


In this case, by best I mean ensuring the velocities I need for reliable expansion and optimizing that variable with these two stated projectiles and these two stated calibers between the two powders I currently possess.
 
You can also try VV N320, I now use that powder for 40S&W as well as my other pistol loads 9mm and 45ACP. Just easier for me to use one powder for all 3,
 
I can speak to 9mm. I really like HS-6. It may not get you to the tippy top of velocity, but it will get you close. I've tried 2 other powders to get there, Power Pistol and Blue dot. I found them both unpleasant to shoot with lots of blast and flash. The HS-6 performs more in line with factory defensive loads subjectively in terms of blast, flash, and recoil. I've also gotten my best accuracy overall with HS-6, loading the 124 XTP.

HP-38 is a fine powder for plinking or target ammunition in the 9mm with the lighter bullet weights. I don't believe it is a good fit, perhaps not applicable at all to 147 gr loads.
 
Random 8 said:
I can speak to 9mm. I really like HS-6. It may not get you to the tippy top of velocity, but it will get you close. I've tried 2 other powders to get there, Power Pistol and Blue dot. I found them both unpleasant to shoot with lots of blast and flash. The HS-6 performs more in line with factory defensive loads subjectively in terms of blast, flash, and recoil. I've also gotten my best accuracy overall with HS-6, loading the 124 XTP.

HP-38 is a fine powder for plinking or target ammunition in the 9mm with the lighter bullet weights. I don't believe it is a good fit, perhaps not applicable at all to 147 gr loads.
Click to expand...

I tried some of the HS-6 in 100 rounds of 124 grain brass plated, boy did it smoke like crazy.
I imagine with the 147 it will run cleaner as it's closer to max case capacity. I'll give it a go next weekend and see how it shoots.
 
So, did you find out what caused the smoke with the hs6 load back in October? I have used quite a bit of it and have never seen that happen.
 
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