Hughes Amendment Repeal?

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I just want to know if there are any steps being taken to repeal the Hughes Amendment? If not repeal then will it fall eventually?

Please excuse me if this is not on the topic, I'm new to this forum. I saw 'machine guns' in the topic description and thought this would be the best place to post this thread.
 
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There is effort being expended right now keeping new firearm restrictions from passing.
While the UN, NATO, Europe, Mexico, some US mayors and cities, and various others are calling for increased gun control.
There is a lot of pressure, especially from outside the US for even more federal gun control (while it would be political suicide in the US.)
We currently have some people in power with very anti-gun histories, and just no new anti-gun measures passed while they are in power is a victory requiring a lot of hard work. Hard work in the form of money, lobbying, lawyers, and voters keeping pressure on representatives.

Legislation like a repeal of the Hughes Amendment would be something you wouldn't even try to push through until there is different people in power.
 
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Heller -> Heller II -> McDonald V Chicago -> State challenges (NJ/NY/CA etc) -> .............waaay down the path before Hughes is more than a speck on the radar
 
....will never happen.

If it ever did you would see a $2000 instead of a $200 dollar tax on F/A. Since 1934, the government has been trying to keep F/A too expensive for the common man.

They ain't cheap to run either.
 
If it ever did you would see a $2000 instead of a $200 dollar tax on F/A. Since 1934, the government has been trying to keep F/A too expensive for the common man.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought that I had heard (perhaps here) that the $200 tax will never be changed because if they try to change it, the NFA as a whole would be challenged and possibly repealed. Probably wrong though.
 
as everallm said the cases going before the SCOTUS are heading in that direction, as far as legislation that definitely wont appear until we get people in power that actually support the 2A.
 
If it ever did you would see a $2000 instead of a $200 dollar tax on F/A. Since 1934, the government has been trying to keep F/A too expensive for the common man.

Currently, you need to pay damn near $20k for a used, old, full auto AK or AR with a $200 tax.

Being able to pay $1,000 for a brand new AK or AR with a $2,000 fee would HELP put a full auto like that in the hands of a common NFA purchaser.
 
None at all.

That's pretty much the answer. The how's and why's can be debated but in the end there is no political capital to be gained for any politician to stand up and declare he wants MORE machine guns. The other side would tear him apart.

Hughes will fall (if it does) in court, not in Congress.
 
I have a rumor that some individuals are planning a challenge to the ban. It will not be any time soon, and that is all I know.
 
Not to mention that if you were going to try a legislative repeal of the Hughes amendment, now would be a really bad time to try it since it would just get vetoed (assuming it survived the Congressional leadership, which is a big assumption).
 
There are bills in congress to related to MGs, both supported by the NRA.

One has an amnesty for vet's bringback MGs. I don't know if this is going anywhere.

One allows gun manufacturers and places that rent guns to make movies to buy new MGs. The NRA thinks this one may have chance. It is part of an ATF reform bill, and has some other good stuff in it.

A supreme court ordered repeal would be ideal, but seems unlikely unless the court makeup changes for the better (which certainly won't happen any time soon).
 
Currently, you need to pay damn near $20k for a used, old, full auto AK or AR with a $200 tax.

Being able to pay $1,000 for a brand new AK or AR with a $2,000 fee would HELP put a full auto like that in the hands of a common NFA purchaser.
Nah, An AR RR will cost you $9000. AKs are way up there because there were so few in the states before 1986. You can put together a decent subgun like a LAGE-MAX-11 for $4000.

I would much rather see a $2000 tax, than the situation we're in now. FAs are disappearing by slow attrition.
 
The Hughes Ammendment has probably been helping stifle innovations in small arms, which makes it a national security issue also.

Right now, an inventor who makes a new automatic weapon, or just an improvement of one, must get a military or police contract or go broke.

If there was no hughes ammendment, the inventor could make a living selling the product to collectors, until he or she developed it enough to sell to the US military.

MG development is not a real free market, that that has costs to the quality of the products.

What makes it so foolish is that there is probably no class of persons less likely in the USA to commit a murder than legal NFA owners, excepting elderly nuns.
 
Right now, an inventor who makes a new automatic weapon, or just an improvement of one, must get a military or police contract or go broke.

If there was no hughes ammendment, the inventor could make a living selling the product to collectors, until he or she developed it enough to sell to the US military.


That is true, and is also true for many weapon platforms in calibers above .50 inches in diameter.


It is the civilian market that supplies most military technology, and it is the civilian market that gives the tools necessary to retain the position as the most powerful technologically advanced military force.

The current situation as it is means that a company must often focus on civilian legal technology as a smaller or emerging company.
The risk of spending many millions of dollars developing something that is only suitable for the military or LEO market only to receive no contracts is huge.
It means virtually all of that money goes down the drain. Which can easily ruin a smaller or even moderate size company.

But if companies can sell moderate amounts of a product to civilian customers they can continue to develop new and innovative products, and the military can actually select what it wants from far more numerous products on the civilian market to find what suites various needs. Like it does with most technology.
This helps keep it advanced and ahead of the world. Greatly reducing the time between new innovations, and the tax payer dollars necessary in the development process.



The current situation is that just a limited number of large defense contractors are in a position to even risk developing new weapon technology for our military.
This means development for certain products is much slower, dependent on what those few can come up with, and with far less competition.
This means it takes many more years before modern technology is adapted to weapons systems. And inventions and improvements are years and sometimes decades behind.


Even the licensing system limits technological development. If someone or a company in another unrelated field wishes to dabble in applying their technology to firearms they cannot. They must know they want to work with firearms and go through a process that typically ends the desire of a company which is unsure what the result would be. You don't have engineers in various numerous divisions of companies all across the country making breakthroughs as they relate to firearms like they do with other technology.
This means many technological breakthroughs with firearms don't occur anywhere nearly as often, and firearm technology is kept separate from other technology until someone already in the firearm business learns about other technology and decides to try and adapt it to firearms.
 
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Good points. It's worth comparing MG development to suppressors. The suppressor industry is small but healthy, can recoup development costs with civilian sales, and is therefore able to provide the troops with cutting-edge technology.

MGs, on the other hand, are a legal PITA. The only market is military...which is why our troops are using arms developed around 1960. Pity.

FWIW, I think the situation is not hopeless. The Heller case has massive implications socially - it was a formal acknowledgement that firearm ownership is a legitimate activity protected by law. Getting section 922(o) repealed is simply a recognition that the existing laws are not working...and if you look at the NFA transfer registry, it is thoroughly impeached as evidence. If I were running ATF (or a Federal prosecutor's office), I would not even consider charging someone for illegal MG ownership unless it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the gun COULD not have been legally owned. And I would be very, very eager to get all those Sten and Sterling parts kits onto paper and under the background check provisions.
 
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The Heller case does have potential to propel other 2A forward. Hopefully the SCOTUS will actually hear cases regarding the NFA and Hughes admendment because IIRC they refused the last time there were challenges that could have made to them if they had wanted
 
That would probably be a good way to do it. However, that would require some good congressmen, and a vastly different congressional makeup than we have now.
 
One other hurdle may be internal to the gun community. If the Hughes Amendment is repealed or amended we expect the price of MGs to drop significantly. If that occurs the current owners of full auto firearms (which may have cost $5-$20k each) would see the value of their collections drop overnight. I wonder of the owners of such expensive firearms are dedicated enough to support a legislative change that is against their own best financial interests. I would like think they are.
 
I would like think they are.

Someone on this board said he'd sell-out the second amendment if the price was right. Don't count on the goodness in humanity, the only reliable human traits are greed and lust.
 
In the first place, most of the NFA community would suck it up. In the second place, we might have to swallow an excise tax (not transfer tax, mind) of $1,000+ on every new MG.

Which most of us would do to get 922(o) repealed.
 
One other hurdle may be internal to the gun community. If the Hughes Amendment is repealed or amended we expect the price of MGs to drop significantly. If that occurs the current owners of full auto firearms (which may have cost $5-$20k each) would see the value of their collections drop overnight. I wonder of the owners of such expensive firearms are dedicated enough to support a legislative change that is against their own best financial interests. I would like think they are.

I personally know quite a few people that own full auto firearms. Every single one of them has stated that they would support a repeal of Hughes. Most of the full auto people have them because they just are that into guns. It is only a small few who are in it for any economic return.
 
In the first place, most of the NFA community would suck it up. In the second place, we might have to swallow an excise tax (not transfer tax, mind) of $1,000+ on every new MG.

Which most of us would do to get 922(o) repealed.

I think your right, I would be willing to pay that for a new MG, ya it would suck but at least the law abiding are no longer denied that ability at all and it would a step forward to eventually eliminating that tax
 
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