Hunters Education Class

[fanchisimo]

So tonight I took the first 3 hours of hunters education and tomorrow I have the remainder. I am an adult and want to try hunting this year for the first time so off to the class. I fully support the goal of Hunters Education. People should be taught the parts of the hobby, but I feel the 3 hour class tonight had 2 hours of wasted time.

The first 2 hours were the intro and ethics, and both presenters had just a few minutes of good info, the rest was hunting stories. The last guy on the survival portion was the opposite, he only delved into stories a little, but gave some good info. For instance I never thought about carrying a whistle in my pocket in case I get lost in the woods. That and the warmth while wet properties of wool. Those were just two of the things he taught. I guess what I'm getting at is that I would be totally okay with the ten hours if it was teaching rather than story hours, but I expect tomorrow to be more of the same. :banghead: Plus they spoon feed us what's gonna be on the test so it seems like learning isn't the objective, just getting people to pass is. True you have to account for pre-teen intellect, but just the same they are going to be in woods with a rifle.

I just feel like these 10-11 hours of class time could be better utilized, or at least shortened to save the volunteer instructors and our time. I don't want to get blasted on this, I truly believe in the idea of Hunters Ed (as a 27 year-old, I was a little excited to go and learn), but what I saw tonight didn't inspire a lot of confidence to have an 11 year-old out in the woods with a rifle. Was anybody else's like this? I will update on how the next portion tomorrow goes.

 

[creeper1956]

as a 27 year-old, I was a little excited to go and learn

Time spent may be a state requirement, instructors probably have very little actual teaching training and they, and you, already know they have to work with the lowest common denominator... the more experienced will just suck it up.

Sit back, pour yourself another cup'a coffee... and smile and nod to the long suffering and under-appreciated instructors. There are bound to be more pearls of wisdom that make it all worthwhile.

Cheers,
C

 

[fanchisimo]

It's a 10 hour requirement, it used to be 4 until... I think 1983 when it was extended. I am not experienced and that is why I wanted to learn. Most kids grow up and their Dad teaches them to hunt. I am starting off from square one, if I get a deer this year, I will be surprised honestly. I do appreciate that they are giving up their own time to teach people. Oh and they don't allow drinks in the auditorium so no coffee for this guy. Lol.

 

[creeper1956]

Oh and they don't allow drinks in the auditorium so no coffee for this guy.

Deal Breaker!

 

[jmr40]

I've been teaching HE classes since 1986. Most teachers are volunteers, while all are well meaning, not all are good teachers. I also taught hgh school from 1980-2010 so standing up in front of people and sharing information was something I did for a living. Many of these volunteers are not comfortable doing this, but do it anyway because they have knowledge to share and want to give back something to hunting. I'm just glad someone will volunteer their time.

Sharing stories that relate to the topic being covered does help learners understand subject matter, but it is easy to get carried away. It is possible to teach the facts of the class in much less than 6 hours, but we do have a 6 hour time requirement. The stories are meant to fill in some of the time and reinforce required topics.

It sounds like you didn't get the best instructors and had a less than perfect experience, but you did learn some helpful information. Even though it my not have been the best for you, I'd bet everyone who leaves the class will be a safer hunter,even if they cannot pass the test.

Most people with average intelligence can pass the test without ever taking the class. But our goal is for students to leave the classes with safe habits rather than a head full of knowledge.

 

[hso]

I've heard the same complaint about other mandated hunter courses.

In contrast, my buddy in Germany took the mandated hunter course over nearly half a year of weekly courses. They started with the assumption of no firearms or hunting experience and worked though a program of class, range and field work covering all types of game, habits and biology of game, nature conservation, rifle and shotgun technology and shooting, handling and care, diseases and parasites in game, dressing game and hygiene in handling to prevent foodborne illness, EU, national and state laws relevant to hunting and weapons. They had to take written, oral and range tests along the way. It sounded like an associates degree in wildlife management and hunting. It also provided him with knowledge that would typically take an American hunter years of active hunting to acquire. There were plenty of hunting stories along the way, but the classes were all business with the understanding that you could and would fail the tests if you did not focus and learn the material. One of the other "benefits" of the course was the very close camaraderie of the participants and graduated hunters and the realization that there were a lot of people that looked upon hunting and hunters in a very positive light in Germany and elsewhere in Europe.

 

[Tim the student]

HSO - I'd like to take that class. Sounds like a good time.

 

[creeper1956]

It's nice when people look upon education as a benefit rather than a chore.

C

 

[Harrod]

I didn't take a HE class myself, I didn't learn from my Dad either (he quit hunting before i was old enough). I learned from a friend of mine, am still learning too. With my daughter getting older my wife wants me to take her to class, not because she wants to hunt but because the wife wants her to learn all the safety aspects. I told her I could teach her firearms safety, but she wants her to learn it in a more formal class just for her own peace of mind.

I have to say I'm interested in taking her not only for the bonding time and her knowing how to be safe around the guns, but also what I may learn from classes I missed.

 

[Sav .250]

One thing for certain.......without the certificate or what ever it is you get for completing the course, you can`t get your lic. Everybody who falls within that certain date of birth has to complete said course so your not alone. Enjoy the tales of whoa.

 

[buck460XVR]

Most people with average intelligence can pass the test without ever taking the class. But our goal is for students to leave the classes with safe habits rather than a head full of knowledge.

I too help with Hunter Education and altho the name implies we teach hunting, the truth is we teach hunter safety. While I too have been paired up with guys that tend to brag about their hunting prowess and take up precious class time doing it, we still manage to teach the priorities. If a young student hears something 3 times and gets the answer correct on the test, at least we have given them the opportunity to learn. I've yet to pass a student I wouldn't hunt alongside, altho some of their fathers are a different story. Ten hours is not enough time to even teach the basics of hunting, but it is enough time to teach the basic rules of safety, basic hunter ethics and to go over the most important regulations that need to be addressed. Gettin' a safe and ethical hunter into the field assures them that they will have the opportunity to learn how to hunt. Gettin' safe and ethical hunters into the field gives us all the opportunity to enjoy our hunt. Most of the agencies that create hunter safety classes pass out literature that will address any questions of safety. It is the students responsibility to read it. If you expect volunteers to turn you into a professional hunter in ten hours of classroom, you are in for a real disappointment when you hit the field.

 

[Captcurt]

As a former instructor I can see both sides of the coin. My favorite method for HE is online or Dvd which is available here in Arkansas. Most instructors don' t care for it, but it is far less boring plus you can work at your own pace. It asks you questions as you watch and gives you a printout of your score at the end of the program. Then you contact an instructor who gives you a final exam.

Now I am waiting to be reinstated into the instructor program. Just waiting for the background check. You would think that a state check for concealed carry and a federal check for a FFL would be enough, but no.

 

[chris in va]

Don't feel bad, we got to watch a gruesome video about skinning a freshly killed squirrel.

I got publically ridiculed in class for asking how to get around remorse for shooting an animal. I felt it was a valid question, the good ol' boys felt otherwise. Kinda turned me off to the whole hunting thing.

I watched some shows about hunting in Alaska, where they MUST hunt for food. In contrast they were very respectful of the kill and didn't whoop and catcall every time they harvested an animal.

 

[creeper1956]

I got publically ridiculed in class for asking how to get around remorse for shooting an animal.

I do what my dad taught me 45 years ago. I honor the animal with these words - "thank you animal for providing me with food, hide, bone and horn... to feed me and mine, to keep us warm and to make our tools".
Is it corny or silly or bad cowboys and Indians movie lame? Maybe... but it gets my head right.

C

 

[Tim the student]

I got publically ridiculed in class for asking how to get around remorse for shooting an animal.

There have been a number of threads about that here that I can recall. I'm not sure if you have seen them or not, but you might find them interesting. Here is one that I found

 

[Captcurt]

I do what my dad taught me 45 years ago. I honor the animal with these words - "thank you animal for providing me with food, hide, bone and horn... to feed me and mine, to keep us warm and to make our tools".
Is it corny or silly or bad cowboys and Indians movie lame? Maybe... but it gets my head right.

C

It doesn't hurt to show respect to your prey. Taking a life should not be taken lightly. Whether it be animal or human.

 

[GWARGHOUL]

It's a 10 hour requirement, it used to be 4 until... I think 1983 when it was extended.

This is why the Missouri Hunter's education is valid in all 50 states, as well as some foreign land, if I recall correctly.

The stories have value. The curriculum isn't that intense, and could be covered in 4-6 hours.

But they still have another 4-6 hours that are mandated.

Do your time, like the rest of us. lol. I did mine two years ago, and I am going out next weekend for rifle season.. first time..

Sooo much to learn.

 

[JohnBT]

"altho the name implies we teach hunting, the truth is we teach hunter safety"

Which is why it's acceptable training to get a carry permit in Virginia. After my parents moved from Maryland back to Virginia in 1990, my father wanted to get a permit, so he asked his cousin who was county Clerk of the Court for advice about the law and a Saturday hunter ed class was the answer. I think it was free, too.

The class was almost all youngsters and my father completely enjoyed the kids, although he didn't learn anything much from the class material. He grew up hunting on a mountain farm, served in WWII, worked as state trooper, etc.

John

 

[Baba Louie]

hso wrote

In contrast, my buddy in Germany took the mandated hunter course... that there were a lot of people that looked upon hunting and hunters in a very positive light in Germany and elsewhere in Europe.

Following link is worth a read

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2003/HuntingGermany.htm

Far more important than money to becoming a hunter, Ergert said, are brains and dedication. Hunters spend a year studying for their license, and half fail on their first try. Even wealthy owners of large estates must pass the difficult exam if they wish to hunt.

I doubt there are too many (what I term) "slob" hunters in der Deustchland, while I cannot say the same here (in NV at least).

But... you know the Germans and their precise ways of doing things. Do it right, do it well with pride in what you do. I wonder if they also have State Depts of Wildlife/Conservation Agents as we do here or if each individually licensed hunters acts in that stead.

 

[stumpers]

In my experience, government mandated education has always been for time instead of substance. Anyone in the military can attest to the fact that administrative training is a complete joke - 5 minutes of pertinent information and 25 minutes of filler. I think that holds true not only for the federal government, but state and local as well.

I'm all for a safety and legal knowledge test or qualification and an optional course, but for adult men or women, time might be better spent reading a manual or watching a good and concise training video, then taking an exam.

 

[snakeman]

I felt the same way through my 6 years of college. Hang in there, it's only two days!

 

[deere140]

I was probably 16 when I took the hunter safety course. It was great, we learned a lot and had a lot of fun. They had a barrel of a shotgun that had been shot with the barrel full of ice, it drove the point home to check the muzzle for obstructions. The second day after the test we got to shoot bow, rifle, blackpowder and shotgun. I guess it really does matter who teaches the course.

 

[ErieLurker]

It helps a lot if your instructor(s) is/are both experienced and enthusiastic. I don't remember now exactly how many hours long the hunter education course here in Ontario was, probably ~20 hours at any rate, spread out over about 2 1/2 days. But my instructors were a husband and wife team who both really knew what they were teaching, and you could feel their enthusiasm, and they'd been doing this (as well as firearms safety, bow hunting, and turkey hunting courses) for years. That makes a difference, rather than having some drone just going through the motions. And they did allow coffee!

 

[JWF III]

Each time I have taken HE it was taught by a DNR officer. They were always very professional, and did a good job with the time they were allowed.

I took HE as a requirement as a kid. Then I again took it in college. (Needed another hour credit to be a full time student, and be eligible for football.) But, by far, I got a lot more out of the college class. Granted it was predominently (maybe 50%) safety, but a full symester of one hour a week, we went over a lot. Heck, we even had some range time with it.

I'm sure, when the time comes, and I have kids that get interested in guns and hunting, I'll take it again with them. As well as the free, couple day course is, I'll be looking for a longer, more detailed class again. (Regardless of cost.) I'm sure I'd get even more out of it once again.

BTW- you may want to look into if a local school offers a more indepth class. That sounds like more of what you're looking for. They'll typically be held at night, one night a week.

Wyman

 

[fanchisimo]

The second day was better, but I still felt like to pass the test, a ten minute brief would have sufficed. I can tell what you all are saying about the teacher, the same guy that kept my interest the first day kept it the second while the other two guys I was only half paying attention. I got a perfect score on the test even through all the day-dreaming and doodling in the book. I second that statement on the military class/brief. Time used is more important than lessons learned.