:banghead: I am a bit disappointed that there are so many people convinced they are doing the right thing by going into the woods and shooting animals for pleasure or sport. After speaking with a hunter myself, and reviewing the facts, I can't deny that hunting is nothing short of wrong, and perpetuates the very problems it claims to solve! (do some research on overpopulated deer and how hunters are causing their numbers to rise). Also after speaking to any hunter after they have shot a deer, they feel as if they have accomplished something, no? But do you know that at the same distance you have to be to shoot a deer, a wolf or even a wolf pack would be ignored as deer can easily outrun them? Not so tough are we? And the ethics of bowhunting. . .56% of deer and elk shot by bowhunters are not recovered, and left to suffer a horrible death! And hunters describe themselves as compassionate. . .I don't get it. . .I would love to have an intelligent debate with an open minded hunter, (and I can do the same). Please note that I am not against hunting, it's the stocking hand fed birds for targets, canned hunts, unethical shots, and the problems that hunting causes. Perhaps there was a need for hunting at some time, though hunters have increased the whitetail deer population, as well as causing the car/deer collisions that they promised to reduce! And must we kill the population in order to kill them? The 90% of non-game animals that make up the majority are healthy non overpopulated animals righted by nature.
Hunting is evil
- Thread starter Red_Wind
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Just one question for you. Are you a strict vegan, as in no animal products of any kind? If not, then spare me your ranting. At least I as a hunter am willing to take personal responsibility for ending the life of the animal I eat. You prefer to enjoy the benefits while conveniently ignoring the unpleasant parts of the process. If you don't wish to participate, fine. But don't condemn me for doing so.
Well, by the contents of your post, it would sure seem that you are indeed against hunting.
There still is a need for hunting. Many people hunt to eat what they kill, and some people hunt out of necessity for food. Did you ever stop and realize that not everyone may be able to afford to purchase all of their food from a grocery store.
So let me get this straight, you are saying that hunters are causing cars to hit deer. Wow, why didn't I think of that. Next time someone hits a deer, I will know why.
Have you ever been hunting? You seem to find it convenient to attack a tradition that you obviously know very little about.
Kingcreek
Member
Red Wind,
I don't quite follow you and I'm not convinced you're looking for an "intelligent debate" but here goes...
I hunt. I selectively kill certain animals for the healthy meat it provides for me and my family. It's not about a lust for blood, a glorifying of violence or death, or some need to reaffirm the superiority of man over other animals.
I disagree with your wound/loss percentage based on my 40 years of rather extensive hunting experience. I am, however, in agreement with one of your comments. I, and most hunters, are against unethical hunting practices, cruelty or unneccessary suffering.
Red Wind, You don't understand it, and I probably cannot explain it to you in a way that changes your mind or helps you see things my way. The hunters I grew up with and know today, have more respect for animals than any card-carrying member of PETA, ALF, or any vegan I've ever met.
I do not feel guilt nor will I appologize for my choice to hunt.
I don't quite follow you and I'm not convinced you're looking for an "intelligent debate" but here goes...
I hunt. I selectively kill certain animals for the healthy meat it provides for me and my family. It's not about a lust for blood, a glorifying of violence or death, or some need to reaffirm the superiority of man over other animals.
I disagree with your wound/loss percentage based on my 40 years of rather extensive hunting experience. I am, however, in agreement with one of your comments. I, and most hunters, are against unethical hunting practices, cruelty or unneccessary suffering.
Red Wind, You don't understand it, and I probably cannot explain it to you in a way that changes your mind or helps you see things my way. The hunters I grew up with and know today, have more respect for animals than any card-carrying member of PETA, ALF, or any vegan I've ever met.
I do not feel guilt nor will I appologize for my choice to hunt.
ReadyontheRight
Member
Do you breathe and have an immune system? If so, you are killing innocent pathogens.
You are not looking for an intelligent debate. It sounds like you hate people...pure and simple. Your kind of thinking is evil. Do you pay farmers to do your evil killing for you? Or do you only eat things that never lived?
If you want to know anything about hunting, leave the city and go venture out into some real woods.
You are not looking for an intelligent debate. It sounds like you hate people...pure and simple. Your kind of thinking is evil. Do you pay farmers to do your evil killing for you? Or do you only eat things that never lived?
If you want to know anything about hunting, leave the city and go venture out into some real woods.
countertop
Member
I was too busy gutting and skinning this mess of squirrels for stew
hillbilly, that's great! Since you live close, will you please run over and teach my dad that trick? He always wants to fry the little guys, and it's frustrating trying to pick the meat off their little bones. I always told him stew was the better way to go.
jmm
hillbilly, that's great! Since you live close, will you please run over and teach my dad that trick? He always wants to fry the little guys, and it's frustrating trying to pick the meat off their little bones. I always told him stew was the better way to go.
jmm
Malfader13
Member
New member.
1 Post
1st post is anti-hunting
Nuf said
1 Post
1st post is anti-hunting
Nuf said
Versifier
Member
Evil?
"Evil" is having the arrogance to make a blanket condemnation about a group of people that you obviously have no real understanding of nor any actual desire to, despite your condescending claim to have an "open mind". I do not try to shove my diet, religion, politics, sexual preferences, or favorite recreations down anyone else's throat and I refuse to tolerate an ignorant bigot trying to do it to me. If you don't like what other people do, activities that do not impact in any negative way upon your life, then learn to mind your own buisness and be glad that others are not so quick to judge you.
"Evil" is having the arrogance to make a blanket condemnation about a group of people that you obviously have no real understanding of nor any actual desire to, despite your condescending claim to have an "open mind". I do not try to shove my diet, religion, politics, sexual preferences, or favorite recreations down anyone else's throat and I refuse to tolerate an ignorant bigot trying to do it to me. If you don't like what other people do, activities that do not impact in any negative way upon your life, then learn to mind your own buisness and be glad that others are not so quick to judge you.
Spare us please Malfader, I am newer than you and I can come up with a better argument with less cockiness. At one point you were a hunter/gatherer, its a miracle your bloodline is still going strong if your ancestors held that same belief. What hunters do in the woods, is no different than what butchers do in the slaughterhouse. Next time you are wolfing down a quarter pounder or steak at Sizzler, remember this, that steak went through the same process as every deer steak on every grill. Population control isn't just for car/deer accident, or over depredation, its because diseases spread in herds/flocks of great numbers. Not convinced? Get the flu and go to work every day even if your sick and see how it spreads. Deer can't call in sick, they stick together. I already know you are not going to embrace it, but think first and don't knock it. I'd rather have a fresh pheasant, than a chemically altered chicken.
Cosmoline
Member
trickyasafox
Member
Malfader13
Member
I actually wasn't replying to him, let alone trying to convince him of my point of view. The point of my short post was to discourage others from even replying to this guy. He has made up his mind and no argument will sway him. His only purpose for posting here was to see how many people he could get to reply and how much anger the post could create. I know I am making a lot of assumptions here but I have seen far to many do exactly this on many other forums. But please feel free to try to sway this fellow with your arguments, I am off to eat me some deer jerky and reload some 6mm rem. for my prairie dog hunt in April.
Red_Wind
As there are so many replies to my thread, I don't care to try and answer them all but here goes. . .
I don't hate people at all. The title "hunting is evil" was made to simply get answers to my thread (though a bit contradictory) and does not reflect my personal views. My stepfather hunts and I don't hate him, nor do I hate him for his choice to hunt. And for your sake I will stay away from the "innocent furry animals debate" as I find that as tiresome as debating with poachers, and I try to look at hunting honestly. But what I do know from years of extensive research on the topic (another of my petpeeves is trying to have a debate with a person who knows nothing at all of their topic), is that hunting rarely solves problems. I do not have a history on disease (I am only fifteen lol) so if you excuse me I will be leaving that from my anti-hunting debate as well. I have walked into the woods much like hunters have done where there was a deer, a buck (with tiny antlers I might add ) that I had earlier deemed Red Wind for his coloring and speed. (in case you are wondering from my username) This deer would allow me to walk up to him and pet him if I wanted to, though in the small herd, he was the only that would allow this, though I was very close with Silent Moon. (but that is another story). I suppose what I am getting at is the fact that I am sad that Red Wind was living there, behind my house, by the street in a small patch of woods, bordered by other homes, though he didn't have a choice due to overpopulation in my area. But when many deer are bagged every season, they release a chemical in their brains that makes them reproduce at a younger age, and then may have up to three fawns at a time, instead of only one. This (coupled with the fact that hunters aim at the strongest biggest buck not killing the one that would benefit the herd) means that only females are surviving, and the herd triples the next season. Look at other species that are not hunted; they have stable populations. If hunting were to be stopped and wolves (who now, thanks to early hunters inhabit less than 5% of their former range) reintroduced then nature would right itself, and the deer population would continue to decline. Also in the last thirty years (due to increased hunting) their have been 5 times as many deer/car collisions during the hunting season, as deer, frightened by gunshots and of the chase, are startled into the road, where they are hit by cars and endanger the lives of people. Also sterlization of deer has proven to be more effective in lowering deer herds then hunting has. Where the hunters (only caring about the animals they hunt of course ) should be rejoicing as they do not have to kill deer anymore as they are not needed, are instead against this idea. Now why would that be. . .
Please also note that I am not against hunting for food purposes only. I suppose I may have wanted to clarify that. I do not wear leather or fur, and I do try to limit the suffering of animals, (though my parents won't let me convert to vegan, I sadly do eat meat though I intend to stop when I hit college), and I totally understand the hunter's point of view when they would rather eat something untouched my man (and much healthier and not living an entire life in a crate). But when I go to pro hunting sites (I am looking at hunting from all sides) they are decorated with photos of people and their deer, looking proud of what they have done. Animals are God's creatures, and while I can't stop you from hunting, I am disgusted by the way hunters brag about the animals they shoot. (Keeping in mind that I could walk up to Red Wind any time and shoot him, though he wouldn't run away as he knows not the harm a gun brings). It seems to me that if hunters truly cared about deer and deer herds they would seek to sterilize them where they could (which is more effective) and choose not to brag about them to the public and treating the animals they kill as once living things, and not as mere trophies to be won.
As there are so many replies to my thread, I don't care to try and answer them all but here goes. . .
I don't hate people at all. The title "hunting is evil" was made to simply get answers to my thread (though a bit contradictory) and does not reflect my personal views. My stepfather hunts and I don't hate him, nor do I hate him for his choice to hunt. And for your sake I will stay away from the "innocent furry animals debate" as I find that as tiresome as debating with poachers, and I try to look at hunting honestly. But what I do know from years of extensive research on the topic (another of my petpeeves is trying to have a debate with a person who knows nothing at all of their topic), is that hunting rarely solves problems. I do not have a history on disease (I am only fifteen lol) so if you excuse me I will be leaving that from my anti-hunting debate as well. I have walked into the woods much like hunters have done where there was a deer, a buck (with tiny antlers I might add
) that I had earlier deemed Red Wind for his coloring and speed. (in case you are wondering from my username) This deer would allow me to walk up to him and pet him if I wanted to, though in the small herd, he was the only that would allow this, though I was very close with Silent Moon. (but that is another story). I suppose what I am getting at is the fact that I am sad that Red Wind was living there, behind my house, by the street in a small patch of woods, bordered by other homes, though he didn't have a choice due to overpopulation in my area. But when many deer are bagged every season, they release a chemical in their brains that makes them reproduce at a younger age, and then may have up to three fawns at a time, instead of only one. This (coupled with the fact that hunters aim at the strongest biggest buck not killing the one that would benefit the herd) means that only females are surviving, and the herd triples the next season. Look at other species that are not hunted; they have stable populations. If hunting were to be stopped and wolves (who now, thanks to early hunters inhabit less than 5% of their former range) reintroduced then nature would right itself, and the deer population would continue to decline. Also in the last thirty years (due to increased hunting) their have been 5 times as many deer/car collisions during the hunting season, as deer, frightened by gunshots and of the chase, are startled into the road, where they are hit by cars and endanger the lives of people. Also sterlization of deer has proven to be more effective in lowering deer herds then hunting has. Where the hunters (only caring about the animals they hunt of course ) should be rejoicing as they do not have to kill deer anymore as they are not needed, are instead against this idea. Now why would that be. . .Please also note that I am not against hunting for food purposes only. I suppose I may have wanted to clarify that. I do not wear leather or fur, and I do try to limit the suffering of animals, (though my parents won't let me convert to vegan, I sadly do eat meat though I intend to stop when I hit college), and I totally understand the hunter's point of view when they would rather eat something untouched my man (and much healthier and not living an entire life in a crate). But when I go to pro hunting sites (I am looking at hunting from all sides) they are decorated with photos of people and their deer, looking proud of what they have done. Animals are God's creatures, and while I can't stop you from hunting, I am disgusted by the way hunters brag about the animals they shoot. (Keeping in mind that I could walk up to Red Wind any time and shoot him, though he wouldn't run away as he knows not the harm a gun brings). It seems to me that if hunters truly cared about deer and deer herds they would seek to sterilize them where they could (which is more effective) and choose not to brag about them to the public and treating the animals they kill as once living things, and not as mere trophies to be won.
Kingcreek
Member
Red Wind, what I know from years of extensive research is:
1.Sterilization is not practical, except maybe for you and your imaginary friend Red Wind.
2.I have never met a healthy vegan, most have numerous health issues because of nutritional deficiencies.
3.You are only 15. Go Away. Come back in 15 years and we'll resume this discussion if you still feel the same.
1.Sterilization is not practical, except maybe for you and your imaginary friend Red Wind.
2.I have never met a healthy vegan, most have numerous health issues because of nutritional deficiencies.
3.You are only 15. Go Away. Come back in 15 years and we'll resume this discussion if you still feel the same.
joab
Member
Red Wind,
Not a personal attack but a personal request.
Please observe the other poster's use on paragraph and thought separation.
Many of us are older and have a hard time seeing type that is all jumbled together
If not for the money generated by hunters and gun owners there would not be enough game animals in North America for animal rightist to worry about.
How much money do the anti hunting groups and nature preservation groups give to animal and land management as opposed to the money generated by sportsmen?
Have you researched that
A typical shot, in Fla at least, is within 100 yards a wolf or other predator at that distance would certainly not be ignored.
I think your opinion is being colored by the fact that a deer let you pet him.
But it should also be noted that you have deprived that deer of it's main defense mechanism and have assured it's quick demise next hunting season
I would address more of your thoughts but it is just too hard for my old eyes to read your post
Not a personal attack but a personal request.
Please observe the other poster's use on paragraph and thought separation.
Many of us are older and have a hard time seeing type that is all jumbled together
If not for the money generated by hunters and gun owners there would not be enough game animals in North America for animal rightist to worry about.
How much money do the anti hunting groups and nature preservation groups give to animal and land management as opposed to the money generated by sportsmen?
Have you researched that
A typical shot, in Fla at least, is within 100 yards a wolf or other predator at that distance would certainly not be ignored.
I think your opinion is being colored by the fact that a deer let you pet him.
But it should also be noted that you have deprived that deer of it's main defense mechanism and have assured it's quick demise next hunting season
I would address more of your thoughts but it is just too hard for my old eyes to read your post
grimjaw wrote:
hillbilly, that's great! Since you live close, will you please run over and teach my dad that trick? He always wants to fry the little guys, and it's frustrating trying to pick the meat off their little bones. I always told him stew was the better way to go.
jmm
Hey, it's easy.
But you fry them and then stew them.
Lightly brown the squirrel parts (dredge in flour and brown in oil).
Then, throw the lightly browned squirrel parts into the stew and stew it for about two hours.
Then use a big fork to pull the squirrel parts out of the stew and allow them to cool a bit.
Then the meat pulls right off the bone and you put it back into the stew.
But if you've got young, tender squirrels, then those DESERVE to be just fried.
If you've hunted squirrels for any length of time, you will learn the difference between the frying squirrels and the stewing squirrels.
hillbilly
hillbilly, that's great! Since you live close, will you please run over and teach my dad that trick? He always wants to fry the little guys, and it's frustrating trying to pick the meat off their little bones. I always told him stew was the better way to go.
jmm
Hey, it's easy.
But you fry them and then stew them.
Lightly brown the squirrel parts (dredge in flour and brown in oil).
Then, throw the lightly browned squirrel parts into the stew and stew it for about two hours.
Then use a big fork to pull the squirrel parts out of the stew and allow them to cool a bit.
Then the meat pulls right off the bone and you put it back into the stew.
But if you've got young, tender squirrels, then those DESERVE to be just fried.
If you've hunted squirrels for any length of time, you will learn the difference between the frying squirrels and the stewing squirrels.
hillbilly
1911 guy
Member
Red Wind,
I'm sorry your world is so limited. There are things in this world that I also disagree with, but don't go so far as to stretch the facts to support my view or blindly follow those who would do the same. You may be only fifteen, but you have the world at your fingertips with the Net. Educate yourself for real, not emotions or greenspeak.
I'm sorry your world is so limited. There are things in this world that I also disagree with, but don't go so far as to stretch the facts to support my view or blindly follow those who would do the same. You may be only fifteen, but you have the world at your fingertips with the Net. Educate yourself for real, not emotions or greenspeak.
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