Hunting knife recommendation
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Hunter125
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I have been wanting a Buck Ergohunter for a while. I've seen cheaper versions, but this one is nice.
www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=product.detail&productID=3670
www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=product.detail&productID=3670
Buck's 420HC is easy to sharpen, but doesn't hold its edge the best. The two go hand in hand. Assuming the heat treat is correct, easy to sharpen = easy to dull. Long lasting edge = harder to sharpen.
420HC is a low end steel. Serviceable, but IMO mediocre. It's a good choice for Buck. It's stainless, which most users seem to prefer these days. It's inexpensive to machine, which is good for Buck's bottom line. And it's easy enough to sharpen, which is absolutely necessary given how few people seem to know how to sharpen a knife these days.
420HC is a low end steel. Serviceable, but IMO mediocre. It's a good choice for Buck. It's stainless, which most users seem to prefer these days. It's inexpensive to machine, which is good for Buck's bottom line. And it's easy enough to sharpen, which is absolutely necessary given how few people seem to know how to sharpen a knife these days.
Steel Talon
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Sure , but its such a simple thing that brings great benefits. There is nothing wrong with achieving the polished ie "razor edge" and quickly re-aquiring a polished edge that stropping gives. To me it's a necessary part of knife blade maintenance. Instead of the diamond stones you can get a tube of diamond paste and load a strop with that.
I work with leather daily and use a number of knives.The sharper they are the safer they are to use. I've even made temp strops from a manilla file and some Mothers Polishing Compound.
Same for my hunting knives, and kitchen cutlery,I maintain the edge with stropping, I never have or would use a butcher steel on a knife.
My Grandfather RIP taight me how to sharpen with stones and to strop in the 50's. I move away here and there from the stones in looking for a simplier system. But never ever from the stropping... There is no other "Zen" producing focus than the sound of a large blade moving across a water stone.
Steel Talon
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Once the edge is obtained the edge is quite easy to maintain.
** I have a set of beautiful Kamagong sticks. Although I never train with mine. Just rattan.
Frozen North
Member
I want to chime in about stropping....
It's not that complicated. No compounds are needed and no fancy strop is required. The back of the belt you are wearing is good enough. The edge should already be there, it should not be much of an operation!
It will take a knife from very sharp to stupid sharp. All you are doing is polishing the edge.
If you learn to sharpen knives to the point that you can shave with them, you will change your whole outlook on blades. Forget the gimmicks, get stones, a striker steel, and a strip of leather. The old way is still the best way IMO...
It's not that complicated. No compounds are needed and no fancy strop is required. The back of the belt you are wearing is good enough. The edge should already be there, it should not be much of an operation!
It will take a knife from very sharp to stupid sharp. All you are doing is polishing the edge.
If you learn to sharpen knives to the point that you can shave with them, you will change your whole outlook on blades. Forget the gimmicks, get stones, a striker steel, and a strip of leather. The old way is still the best way IMO...
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dak0ta
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Wow this thread is a wealth of knowledge now for the beginning knife enthusiast! Thanks gentlemen! I'll probably settle with a Buck with 420HC steel to begin with and upgrade when I know how to properly use a knife, sharpen one etc. I wouldn't want to damage a nice new expensive one.
Question regarding sharpening. For kitchen knives, people use those rods that are roughed up and you just slide the knife blade along it (both sides) till sharp. Do these work for hunting knives?
Question regarding sharpening. For kitchen knives, people use those rods that are roughed up and you just slide the knife blade along it (both sides) till sharp. Do these work for hunting knives?
Frozen North
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Those aren't really good for sharpening kitchen knives either... 
I tried all the gimmicks and gadgets, then I caved in and learned how to do it right. Youtube is LOADED with good videos to get you started. I bet there are tons of dull knives around for you to practice on.
If you get real good, you will never buy beer at deer camp again!
I tried all the gimmicks and gadgets, then I caved in and learned how to do it right. Youtube is LOADED with good videos to get you started. I bet there are tons of dull knives around for you to practice on.
If you get real good, you will never buy beer at deer camp again!
Marlin60Man
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That's a grooved steel, and the secret about it is that it raises a burr and makes it feel sharp. In reality, after a few cuts that burr will wear off and it will be duller than before.
A smooth kitchen steel is used by some people, but they don't really do anything to sharpen a blade. They're actually used before cutting is done. Your edge will simply last longer through your cutting task doing this than without. It's not really at all practical for anyone that doesn't need to stop and sharpen their knife in the middle of their work though.
Learning how to do it the right way with your hands and a stone is not hard, it just takes time and practice. Like anything else worth learning in life.
A smooth kitchen steel is used by some people, but they don't really do anything to sharpen a blade. They're actually used before cutting is done. Your edge will simply last longer through your cutting task doing this than without. It's not really at all practical for anyone that doesn't need to stop and sharpen their knife in the middle of their work though.
Learning how to do it the right way with your hands and a stone is not hard, it just takes time and practice. Like anything else worth learning in life.
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dak0ta
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Okay so this evening I went to 2 stores and tried out some knives by Mora and Buck. I tried the Mora line.
I like the Mora rubber grip, nice palm swell, and the plastic seemed pretty tough. The blade was thin, cut-point, but seemed a little too fragile for me. The knife slipped into its plastic sheath quite tightly with a audible 'click' at the bottom. Shaking the sheath with the knife in it made no noise, and there was no movement of the knife.
I then tried a Buck 119, after all the talk about it, I found it quite big (6'') and the phenolic grip was not slippery, but I couldn't just grasp it like the Mora.
I went to the other store and tried the Bucklite Max 679 large and Omni Hunter 12 PT. I liked both. Omni had the bigger, fatter, and wider 4'' blade, and curved handle. The Omni offered a better non-slip grip due to the ribs in the handle and finger notch for the index finger, but the excessive curve made it awkward for me to hold. The Bucklite Max had a less curved handle, and I found that I could assume many grasp positions with the jimping, side finger panels etc. The Bucklite Max is also a lot lighter than the Omni and feels like I'm holding nothing. I rationalized that it would be easier to field dress with the slightly less handle curve and lighter more graceful slashing/slicing motions I could use with this knife. Also, the ability to choke up closer to the blade would help me separate the flesh from fascia easier. Thus I selected the Bucklite Max!
So with new knives, is there a break in procedure? Do I need to oil it like a gun to prevent rust? It's sharpened from the factory, but how do I make it even sharper?
PS. Can jimping (serrations?) on the spine of the blade of the knife be used to break open the rib cage on critters? Do you just place that part under the rib cage and heave upwards and forwards with the knife basically snapping the bones? Or do you use the blade portion and cut them open?
I like the Mora rubber grip, nice palm swell, and the plastic seemed pretty tough. The blade was thin, cut-point, but seemed a little too fragile for me. The knife slipped into its plastic sheath quite tightly with a audible 'click' at the bottom. Shaking the sheath with the knife in it made no noise, and there was no movement of the knife.
I then tried a Buck 119, after all the talk about it, I found it quite big (6'') and the phenolic grip was not slippery, but I couldn't just grasp it like the Mora.
I went to the other store and tried the Bucklite Max 679 large and Omni Hunter 12 PT. I liked both. Omni had the bigger, fatter, and wider 4'' blade, and curved handle. The Omni offered a better non-slip grip due to the ribs in the handle and finger notch for the index finger, but the excessive curve made it awkward for me to hold. The Bucklite Max had a less curved handle, and I found that I could assume many grasp positions with the jimping, side finger panels etc. The Bucklite Max is also a lot lighter than the Omni and feels like I'm holding nothing. I rationalized that it would be easier to field dress with the slightly less handle curve and lighter more graceful slashing/slicing motions I could use with this knife. Also, the ability to choke up closer to the blade would help me separate the flesh from fascia easier. Thus I selected the Bucklite Max!
So with new knives, is there a break in procedure? Do I need to oil it like a gun to prevent rust? It's sharpened from the factory, but how do I make it even sharper?
PS. Can jimping (serrations?) on the spine of the blade of the knife be used to break open the rib cage on critters? Do you just place that part under the rib cage and heave upwards and forwards with the knife basically snapping the bones? Or do you use the blade portion and cut them open?
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dak0ta
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Apparently Buck Knives moved production to China, but then brought it back to the USA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45SZHgudMzE
Bucklite Max was introduced to replace the Chinese made knife product, but made in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45SZHgudMzE
Bucklite Max was introduced to replace the Chinese made knife product, but made in the US.
A great way to sharpen, especially for beginners, is to get a kit that has 3 stones, a knife holder, and a guide. They are typically medium, fine, and extra fine grit stones. You can't really screw it up with step by step directions and a guide rod. With these, even a novice can get a razor sharp edge. I have used the chef choice knife sharpener thingies and steels for maintenance, but they have limitations, especially for field knives. I have used a rough, medium, and fine stones freehand with good results, but the kit with the guides is really the easiest way to get a great edge. In my experience however, the buck knives I have (hate to sound like a broken record but the 110 folder is my favorite) can go through several deer without any maintenance.
I personally don't typically cut rib cages, just reach up in there and take out whatever you need to take out. If you do though, I would use the blade, not the jimping.
I personally don't typically cut rib cages, just reach up in there and take out whatever you need to take out. If you do though, I would use the blade, not the jimping.
Frozen North
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Stand over the animal straddling it, looking at the head. Put the blade of the knife at the base of the sternum facing away from you. Grasp the handle with both hands, put your elbows on your knees for leverage, and push the knife ahead through the sternum. If the knife is sharp, and you keep it in the cartilage, it will zip right through.
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dak0ta
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Frozen North, when you say put the blade of the knife at the base of the sternum facing away from you, are you saying that the sharp end is facing down and the blunt end facing up?
And what's a good lanyard material? Paracord? Leather? Nylon shoelace? I see some ppl wrap the handle too.
This guy from Japan reviews the Buck Vanguard and BUcklite Max, using an X-ray to reveal the full tangs, and uses a microscope to show the edge!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl4RYG6OCIY
And what's a good lanyard material? Paracord? Leather? Nylon shoelace? I see some ppl wrap the handle too.
This guy from Japan reviews the Buck Vanguard and BUcklite Max, using an X-ray to reveal the full tangs, and uses a microscope to show the edge!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl4RYG6OCIY
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Frozen North
Member
No... errrrr.... uhhhhhh, how can I explain it better?????
Let me surf a bit. There must be a pic out there somewhere.
Let me surf a bit. There must be a pic out there somewhere.
Frozen North
Member
Hold the knife like a two year old holds a crayon... two hands now...
starting at the base of the sternum, push the knife tword the head. The knife should bull doze its way though. The ribs are not connected with bone, they are connected with tough cartilage. A sharp knife will cut it, but it takes allot of force. This is why you use two hands and brace you elbows on your knees.
Some guys use a saw. It can be done with a knife, then you won't have to pack a saw.
I can't find diddly squat for pics... sorry.
starting at the base of the sternum, push the knife tword the head. The knife should bull doze its way though. The ribs are not connected with bone, they are connected with tough cartilage. A sharp knife will cut it, but it takes allot of force. This is why you use two hands and brace you elbows on your knees.
Some guys use a saw. It can be done with a knife, then you won't have to pack a saw.
I can't find diddly squat for pics... sorry.
castingdonkey
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You wont go wrong with the 119, there are other good knives. Pick one.
ArfinGreebly
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Edges And Stuff
I have several Mora knives. A couple of dozen anyway. Some of mine have leather sheaths, some have the plastic. The plastic is practical in wet conditions, has drain hole in bottom. I prefer leather. Leather sheaths can be had for those knives, but can cost more than the knife itself.
Which is why I suggested the Buck 105 over the 119.
I have an Omni. There are only two or three grips that work for me. I will probably never have two of them.
I have a couple of those. The only duty they've done is kitchen duty, but much can be learned about a knife from how it performs in the kitchen. I'm happy with them. As you pointed out, the handle ergos are better and more versatile.
Buck puts a 15 degree per side (30 degrees total) edge on their knives. That's a very serviceable angle and I would recommend staying with that. I use a diamond steel (12 inch long, oval cross section, fine diamond grit) to maintain most of my edges. Looks more or less like this:
A 12-inch steel is easy to use but also easy to be clumsy with. I anchor the tip on a towel or hot-pad for most knives so that the steel doesn't wiggle and give a wavy edge. If the blade I'm sharpening is really flexible (like a fishing knife) then I anchor the blade instead, laying it along the edge of a cutting board for example, so that it can't flex while I'm dressing the edge.
For field use, I carry one of these (Kershaw Ultra Tek) in the truck:
It carries with the working part of the steel hidden in the handle. Takes a few seconds to unscrew the ring, reverse the rod, and screw it back on. Very handy.
With a bit of practice it's not hard to maintain a constant angle when touching up the edge. And constant angle is the magical secret to edge maintenance. Yes, stropping is a good way to finish an edge, but keeping the edge even and clean and properly angled is the job of steel and stone. (BTW, a diamond steel does not require much pressure.)
There's no "break in" procedure. The knife you picked is a 420HC stainless. No oiling or other "preparation" required. Your knife's edge when new should require nothing more than the gentle ministrations of a strop to remove any residual factory burr. And normally not even that.
Nah. The jimping is there to give you a better grip.
Frozen North is describing a process where you are doing a push cut away from yourself.
The point of the knife is away from you, the edge is facing up and forward.
Does that help?
I have several Mora knives. A couple of dozen anyway. Some of mine have leather sheaths, some have the plastic. The plastic is practical in wet conditions, has drain hole in bottom. I prefer leather. Leather sheaths can be had for those knives, but can cost more than the knife itself.
Which is why I suggested the Buck 105 over the 119.
I have an Omni. There are only two or three grips that work for me. I will probably never have two of them.
The Bucklite Max had a less curved handle, and I found that I could assume many grasp positions with the jimping, side finger panels etc. The Bucklite Max is also a lot lighter than the Omni and feels like I'm holding nothing. I rationalized that it would be easier to field dress with the slightly less handle curve and lighter more graceful slashing/slicing motions I could use with this knife. Also, the ability to choke up closer to the blade would help me separate the flesh from fascia easier. Thus I selected the Bucklite Max!
I have a couple of those. The only duty they've done is kitchen duty, but much can be learned about a knife from how it performs in the kitchen. I'm happy with them. As you pointed out, the handle ergos are better and more versatile.
Buck puts a 15 degree per side (30 degrees total) edge on their knives. That's a very serviceable angle and I would recommend staying with that. I use a diamond steel (12 inch long, oval cross section, fine diamond grit) to maintain most of my edges. Looks more or less like this:
A 12-inch steel is easy to use but also easy to be clumsy with. I anchor the tip on a towel or hot-pad for most knives so that the steel doesn't wiggle and give a wavy edge. If the blade I'm sharpening is really flexible (like a fishing knife) then I anchor the blade instead, laying it along the edge of a cutting board for example, so that it can't flex while I'm dressing the edge.
For field use, I carry one of these (Kershaw Ultra Tek) in the truck:
It carries with the working part of the steel hidden in the handle. Takes a few seconds to unscrew the ring, reverse the rod, and screw it back on. Very handy.
With a bit of practice it's not hard to maintain a constant angle when touching up the edge. And constant angle is the magical secret to edge maintenance. Yes, stropping is a good way to finish an edge, but keeping the edge even and clean and properly angled is the job of steel and stone. (BTW, a diamond steel does not require much pressure.)
There's no "break in" procedure. The knife you picked is a 420HC stainless. No oiling or other "preparation" required. Your knife's edge when new should require nothing more than the gentle ministrations of a strop to remove any residual factory burr. And normally not even that.
Nah. The jimping is there to give you a better grip.
Frozen North is describing a process where you are doing a push cut away from yourself.
The point of the knife is away from you, the edge is facing up and forward.
Does that help?
Frozen North
Member
Yes... and not the other way... standing over the head and pulling the knife to you. I have a mighty big scar on my inner thigh from splitting the sternum this way. I would venture to say that a slightly different angle would have left me a steer. Lessons learned at age 14, ten stitches closed it up. Don't do it.
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dak0ta
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Wow thanks for the info, really helpful!
Any stickies or good websites on how to sharpen a knife with a stone and then strop it on leather? I read that if you strop, it will make the blade really sharp for longer, and if you strop after using the knife, it will prolong the sharpness before you need to pull the stones out again.
Any stickies or good websites on how to sharpen a knife with a stone and then strop it on leather? I read that if you strop, it will make the blade really sharp for longer, and if you strop after using the knife, it will prolong the sharpness before you need to pull the stones out again.
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lobo9er
Member
yeah its not that hard. (I learned from this site and youtube) I actually use corragated cardboard. Theres always a box geting trown out so might as well make use of it.
Steel Talon
Member
Yes, I've even used my leather boot to strop.. However there are better materials to use. And strops are inexpensive and easy to make. That will not load up with salts or dirt.
The addition of compound to the strop is a no brainer for me. It turns a plain jane strop into a more effective strop for a nickels worth of compound.
Dak0ta,
Consider adding a folding saw for your field gear. Such as a Primos, or a Gerber etc. The saw is much more effective and safer for splitting the sternum and pelvic bone. They weigh practically nothing and are a small package.
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