Hunting Rifle Accuracy?

[X-Rap]

+1 on Art, I can't imagine how some of these guys can even get their scope dialed in when they have 1/4 or 1/2 minute adjustments, I see a great amount of ammo shot up with nothing but frustration as a return.
I have no problem with 3-4"MOA from solid field positions for big game until that same standard is used for a 300-400yd shot in which case there will be a missed or worse a badly hit animal.
I grew up spot and stalking fox in the snow and remember an old guy who used a calendar as a target, he would shoot three shot groups at the dates and was satisfied when he blew out the date which was probably 3/8". I love when a rifle group can be covered with a dime but knowing that the size of cross hairs can make that near impossible I don't have that expectation but 1.5 is very achievable. 3"-4" is something to be expected from an iron sighted rifle and and then you need to respect the limitations of range.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Those tiny groups are not meaningless, but they don't mean much hunting.

If you want to be a good hunting rifleman sight your scope in on the bench and never go back until you change loads or want to make sure everything is in order.
Use trees, rocks, hunting jackets, your elbow, nothing. Whatever you will have in the field. You will be a better hunter than somebody shooting one hole groups off the bench.

 

[kludge]

I would say that 2-3 MOA under range conditions at whatever range you plan to hunt, and whatever shooting position you are using is perfectly adequate for big game hunting.

If the rifle is MOA, it makes your job a bit easier, simply because many firing positions used in the field are not MOA (generally speaking in the hands of an average hunter). Add in stress, excitement, and weather conditions and the fact that animals don't have bullseyes on them for you to aim at and any thoughts of MOA shooting are out the window.

I would agree that if you can't consistently hit a paper plate at the range and from the shooting position taking conditions into consideration, then it would be a shot I would pass on.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I would prefer any rifle I hunt with to be capable of 1-1.5 MOA off of a bench rest, I happen to own one that is significantly more accurate than that. That said, shooting from the bench is not a measure of ability to actually make a clean shot on an animal under field conditions. A good rifleman that is well rounded knows how to shoot from a variety of positions, and uses the bench for load development and checking zero only. This requires practice time being spent on shooting from field positions instead of the bench. I do this by shooting quite a bit of .22LR at steel targets from field positions in tall grass, at inclines, or under less than ideal conditions. While this helps build skill and confidence it also serves to point out the difficulty in getting a good shot on target under field conditions, and reinforces the point that one should only take shots that are likely to be clean.

Instead of simply going for raw mechanical accuracy I think most hunters and shooters would be better off selecting a rifle based on how well it fits them, how well it points, hangs on target, and how good the trigger is. We are looking for shootability here, the quality in a firearm that makes it easy for the shooter to perform to the best of their skill level. You might have the most accurate rifle in the world from a bench rest, but if the stock doesn't fit, the whole thing has no balance, and the trigger pull is heavy enough to lift the rifle by the trigger..... then it probably will be a poor performer in the field. I'd much rather have a 1-1.5 MOA rifle that is well made and easy to shoot well, than a .5 MOA rifle that is an otherwise pain in the butt to tote around in the field and actually shoot from anything other than the bench.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Hunting and bench rest shooting are two very different disciplines that have little in common besides both being done with a rifle.

Stand up on your hind legs and using your sling to steady the rifle, shoot at a pie plate sized target at the maximum distance you're likely to shoot. If you hit the target consistently, then you're good to go.

I've known far too many people who can't hit a damned thing in the field. The primary reason is because they never stand up and shoot their rifle in practice. The secondary reason is because they think their sling is an accessory designed to hang a rifle from their shoulder.

 

[PreMod70]

Using Remington ammunition as an example (3) shot typical groups at 200yds shooting from bench rest. I'd have no problems with a rifle that would shoot 1.5 MOA at 100yds (5) shot groups.

That rifle would shoot better if the bolt was on the other side.

 

[Hangingrock]

PreMod70:That rifle would shoot better if the bolt was on the other side.

Would that be my other left?

 

[Hangingrock]

Kodiak Bear:Stand up on your hind legs and using your sling to steady the rifle, shoot at a pie plate sized target at the maximum distance you're likely to shoot. If you hit the target consistently, then you're good to go.

Is this consistent enough at 200yds from standing? I wish it was but it was one of my better days 10-ring 7"Ø OD. I’ll allow that on demand I’ll stay with in the 9-Ring which is 13"Ø OD on most days but there have been some bad-bad days when the shots wondered out to the 8-ring which is 19"Ø OD. The ammunition used are my reloads.

 

[coloradokevin]

Most guys that claim 1 inch or better have their rifle clamped in a bench vise with sandbags all around it.

Yeah, but all of that junk sure isn't needed to shoot 1-MOA or better. My best groups ever were shot with exactly the setup that is pictured below:

The box-stock Tikka .308 Win rifle (as pictured) with scope, mount, bipod, and sling weighs just 9lbs 14 oz... it isn't the lightest rifle in the field, but it SURE isn't the heaviest. The rear bag pictured with the rifle weighs 1lb 4oz, and would fit in a pocket easily, or strap to the stock.

Obviously my best groups were shot from the prone position, and I won't claim that I can shoot inch or better groups while standing with a sling. But, that doesn't mean that accuracy requires a machine rest and remote trigger, either.

 

[jmr40]

From the bench, most any modern rifle in '06 will likely group inside of 1.5 MOA for five shots. It's not hard with a little tweaking to get inside of one MOA.

What happens in the field is up to the shooter, not the rifle.

This is my experience as well. If a rifle won't shoot 1.5" out of the box there is no room in my safe. If It will shoot 1.5" with factory ammo I feel it has the potential to be a real shooter with some tweaking and good handloads. If it won't do 1.5" out of the box with factory ammo it may turn into a decent shooter, but may require too much tweaking to get it there. In todays market there are too many rifles that will shoot well to waste time and money making one shoot.

Most guys that claim 1 inch or better have their rifle clamped in a bench vise with sandbags all around it.

Some do, but all of my hunting rifles will shoot into at least 1" with a rolled up jacket off the hood of a pickup. Never owned a vise to shoot with and quite often get groups under 1/2" on a good bench. And these are hunting rifles, not 10 lb target rifles. Even my 5 lb Kimber is a 1" gun.

Not all would do it out of the box, none with factory ammo. But with a little tweaking to the bedding, trigger and carefully hand loaded ammo many rifles will do this.

 

[X-Rap]

I'd like to see the guy that can shoot 1/2 MOA with a rifle that you can hold up and carry by the trigger without it tripping
As far as shooting off hand, it is a nice trick and takes much discipline and physical control but is not much more realistic than hunting from a bench unless the target is quite close. I'm not saying that the photos and claims are false, just that in the field if one has just climbed a stout hill or for any other reason they have an elevated heart rate (buck fever) getting the shot of will be quite difficult. Expedient field positions of crouch, kneel, sitting, jackass prone or using a tree, post, or sticks is much more realistic and will compensate for the movement caused by your heartbeat, that is unless you are an Olympic Biathlete.

 

[mac66]

The military standard for sniper rifles is 1 MOA. 1 MOA for hunting rifles is a bit optimistic IMO. Service rifle standard is 4 MOA. 2-4 MOA for a hunting rifle is possible under the best circumstances but most people can't shoot that well in my experience.

 

[X-Rap]

This thread has disappointed me as an American shooter. Our pursuit of accuracy goes all the way back to before the Revolution and woodsman, military, competitors and shooter of all stripes have strived to cluster their bullets into as small of groups as possible. We have no awards and medals for mediocrity.

2-4 MOA for a hunting rifle is possible under the best circumstances but most people can't shoot that well in my experience

I really hate such generalities but they are rampant on this site.

 

[blue_ridge]

Accuracy on a paper target doesn't tell you much other than basic sighting in. Most rifles designed to use smokeless powder can be plenty accurate for deer hunting inside 200 yards. Not many shots require you to shoot from farther away then 200 yards unless you're hunting in plenty open country. Most places, deer stick to cover. if you can't get within 100 yards, you won't see them to even get a shot.

What is much more important is that you know how your specific load shoots out the max distance you can be accurate with it. It's just common sense you need to keep it inside the deers chest, 6-12 inches gives a lung shot, so your limit should be the distance you can group inside that circle. You need to know how to compensate for uphill and downhill shots. How to compensate for wind on longer shots. And yes, even at 200 yards a light 10-15mph wind could move your bullet 6 inches depending what your shooting. At 300, 18-24 inches could be possible. You also need to know how to lead a deer if it is walking, trotting or running. All these things affect accuracy much more than what a rifle groups at 100 yards on paper.

 

[PCCUSNRET]

If I purchase a gun that won't shoot under 2" @ 100 yds from the bench I won't use it for hunting. I spend a lot of time at the range punching holes in paper from the bench and until now I don't feel that it has decreased my ability to shoot in the woods. I've been deer hunting for over 45 years now and I can't tell you the last time I had to get in a prone position to shoot a deer (not that I wouldn't if I required, just never had the need). I would say that 95% of the deer I've shot were from a standing position with my gun resting against a tree. The rest were from a tree stand or in a kneeling position. Lately (due to my age) I've been hunting from a stand and it has a bar that can be used as a rest. I think I would rather hunt with someone that practices punching holes in paper targets 10 times a year than the fellow that come out to the range once a year to shoot 3 rounds to make sure their scopes are still set for minute of deer.

 

[blue_ridge]

I think I would rather hunt with someone that practices punching holes in paper targets 10 times a year than the fellow that come out to the range once a year to shoot 3 rounds to make sure their scopes are still set for minute of deer.

Yep, I agree. Everything I said previously was assuming anyone serious about hunting deer has their rifle sighted in, knows exactly what load shoots best in their rifle. After that, I don't think a rifle that shoots 1MOA, 1/2 MOA or 1.5MOA will make much difference in hunting accuracy. But knowing slopes, wind and moving targets will.

 

[Virg461]

The bench tests the hardware. The field tests the shooter.

Well said. Chuck Hawks wrote a good article on the subject.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm

Unless you're shooting antelope at 300 yards, most any modern rifle will suffice. One MOA is very good, and definitely good enough. Practice with it until you're comfortable.

 

[coloradokevin]

I'd like to see the guy that can shoot 1/2 MOA with a rifle that you can hold up and carry by the trigger without it tripping

I'm not following this part of your post. Carry by the trigger without tripping the trigger? Who said that?

 

[okiewita40]

I was always taught that there is a difference between shooters and hunters.

A shooter wants to make holes in paper in the smallest amount of space and from as far away as possible.

A hunter on the other hand wants to try and get as close to the animal as possible so that they can harvest it as humanely as can possibly be done.

 

[451 Detonics]

Granted what has been said about hitting a paper plate consistently is a good measure of practical accuracy is very true. I do like knowing my hunting rifles are as accurate as I can make then through proper bedding, and the best ammo I can use. The confidence gained by knowing the rifle is capable of shooting 1 inch groups enhances my confidence in the field.

My varmint gun is capable of putting 5 rounds into a quarter of an inch, my 8mm Mauser will shoot even junk surplus well under two inches from the bench using just a bipod. I have shot the same size groups prone with the bipod. Off hand at 100 yards I am confident I can hold 4-5 inch groups.

The problem most people have is the majority of their shooting is done off a bench. Get out and practice offhand, sitting, and prone.

 

[PreMod70]

Is this consistent enough at 200yds from standing? I wish it was but it was one of my better days 10-ring 7"Ø OD. I’ll allow that on demand I’ll stay with in the 9-Ring which is 13"Ø OD on most days but there have been some bad-bad days when the shots wondered out to the 8-ring which is 19"Ø OD. The ammunition used are my reloads.

Nice choice of rifle and some nice shooting also.

 

[gunplumber]

A rifle shooting .5 in. at 100 is a 8in gun at 500 (not exact but real close). For every 100 yds extra you shoot, your group size will just about double. Don't take my word for it; try it yourself (on a BIG target). I insist my guns shoot 1in or less at 100. If it don't, I work on it till it does or sell it.

 

[TGReaper]

While it is not necessary,I like my hunting rifles to go into one inch at 100 yds, with some allowances for the rifle type.

I shoot 5 shot groups with the standard weight bbls. such as my 30-06 Win sportster,Tikka 25-06,.264 WM, with my .270 Win Fwt, and the .375 H&H I shoot 3 shot groups.

The only hunting rifle that I have that does not shoot into 1 inch is my 16 in.30-30 Win.Trapper.It runs between 2 and 3 in. with a receiver sight.



TGR

 

[KodiakBeer]

As far as shooting off hand, it is a nice trick and takes much discipline and physical control but is not much more realistic than hunting from a bench unless the target is quite close.

Get a properly adjusted sling and try it. It's easier than you think, if you practice it.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have 5 hunting rifles that, from a bipod, using a rear bag, will, from the bench, produce 3-shot groups at 100-yds that measure anywhere from 0.19" to 0.75" with hand loads. What this tells me is that the rifles will not let me down if I do my part.

I practice about twice per week and try to take all my shots at less than 250 yds. I use bipod, shooting sticks or a pack as a rest (since I've found few benches where I hunt) whenever possible. Oh and, since the vitals of any interesting CX2 game average roughly 6-9", larger for any CX3 game, a rifle that shoots to 2 MOA will likely get the job done.

FH