Hunting Rifle Accuracy?

[X-Rap]

For ColoradoKevin

You might have the most accurate rifle in the world from a bench rest, but if the stock doesn't fit, the whole thing has no balance, and the trigger pull is heavy enough to lift the rifle by the trigger..... then it probably will be a poor performer in the field.

This didn't make much sense to me since I have never shot a poor trigger very well bench or not.

Get a properly adjusted sling and try it. It's easier than you think, if you practice it.

KB I can shoot off hand quite well, the part you didn't quote was what I said about elevated heart rate and climbing, I hunt from 5000 to 11,000 feet in elevation and do quite a bit of cardio as well and I can't steady a rifle in time for a quick shot and if I have time there are many positions better, still hunting in the woods might give the offhand some merit but if you are in the woods there is usually plenty to lean against. I just rarely use it in the field but do practice it at the range if for no other reason than trigger and breath control.
As for the shooting sling no less of an expert than Jeff Cooper himself claimed the loop sling of "no use whatever from the offhand position" I do use the loop at times but find that I generally have a tree or limb, rock or my pack to use as a rest. In open ground after antelope I have used the prone position with both rifle and handgun with success but it doesn't take much brush or grass to make that position pretty worthless.

 

[Coal Dragger]

X-Rap,

In the bad old days of me working for Bass Pro Shops I had the opportunity to shoot a lot of rifles off of the bench in the indoor range (100yd tube), and shot some really nice groups with rifles that were technically very accurate but had pretty lousy triggers. It is possible to do, not really easy, but possible if the mechanical accuracy is there.

 

[ms6852]

There is a lot of speculation as to what is really accurate when shooting a rifle. What is most important to me may not be to you. I do not have custom made rifles they are all out of the box but shoot MOA from the bench. I always hunt using 30-06 caliber and for me my rifle is very accurate if I can hit a paper plate 5 times at 200 hundred yards freehand.

People can shoot MOA all day from the bench and with sandbags but you can not do the same offhand. So for hunting my rifles must be able to hit the plate at 200 yards 5 times. I can achieve this because all year round I practice with a remington 513T 22 lr shooting offhand.

 

[DM~]

Any rifle that will shoot 3" groups at 100 yds is plenty good enough for 99.9% of the hunters i've seen and it's probably good enough for me too. I really hate to hunt with a rifle that won't shoot the first 3 shots in 2" though and seldom hunt with a rifle that won't keep them in 1.5".

BUT, for me, the most important thing of all is that FIRST shot out of the gun, it just has to always go into a very tight group. I like to take my rifle out and fire one shot, over a long peroid of time. I fire one shot, then put that rifle away to try again another day. IF the first shot always goes where i want it, i'm not so worried about the others...

I have two scopes for my "go to" gun, they easily snap on and off and always going back to zero...



I do keep both of them sighted in and here's a target from two shots from each one from a "field position" at 100 yards. I fired two shots, snapped off the B&L 1.5-6 and snapped on the Zeiss 3x9, fireing two more shots. I did not let the bbl. cool off. The two on the right are from the Zeiss, and i could move it a click or two to the left, to go on top of the first two shots...



That's much better than i need, but i do appreciate the extra accuracy this hunting gun gives me!

DM

 

[Geno]

I had one Weatherby Mark V chambered in .300 Wea Mag, that regardless of the loads I tried and even using custom-made dies, would never fire under than about 1.75" at 100 yards. It held about the same out to 300 yards. I dropped a few whitetails and several ram with that rifle out to 350ish yards. I never missed, and I never had to fire twice.

Regarding the difference between bench and field, Art has nailed it. Other than zeroing the scope and testing loads, the bench won't do much more than tell the firearm's ability. The pudding test in the trigger-puller in the field. Any hunter who can hold 2" groups at 100 yards, should have no difficulty to at least 300 yards.

The real secret to success is knowing your rifle's ability and your own. Determine your rifle's capability, and your own capability. Then, set about target shooting at your maximum distance so you are comfortable and confident when those shots present. Remember, hunting rifles aren't target rifles.

Thanks for posting this thread. It was a fun read!

Geno

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Well said. Chuck Hawks wrote a good article on the subject.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm

Unless you're shooting antelope at 300 yards, most any modern rifle will suffice. One MOA is very good, and definitely good enough. Practice with it until you're comfortable.

LOL! Took my last pronghorn right at 300 yards.



My .25-06 hand load for my Cooper M52 shoots 3/8" groups at 100 yards. Didn't need to fool around anymore with it.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Nice Cooper, looks almost exactly like mine except for the the fluted barrel and mine in chambered in .280AI.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Thanks! I love my Coopers.

BTW: I see you are in the Black Hills. I meet my good friend and hunting partner at his Dad's place 2-3 times every year. His Dad has a nice place in Hot Springs, SD. We whack p-dogs in the summer and then head to Moorcroft, WY in October for pronghorn.

 

[Caddisflied]

Great rifle. Great group. And a great hunt, by the looks.
Congrats Brian!

I had a win. m/70 with a 4x12 Leupold on it.
Got it to shoot sub 1" groups with reloads at 100.
But I'll be darned if I get a deer to step out in front of it at more that 75 yards.
I took one whitetail buck with it at less than 50 feet.

Accuracy is always desired, but not always necessary.

 

[Coal Dragger]

BrainOnSigs,

Small world, I live in Hot Springs, and go through Moorcroft just about every other day (I work for BNSF).

 

[BrainOnSigs]

BrainOnSigs,

Small world, I live in Hot Springs, and go through Moorcroft just about every other day (I work for BNSF).

Any chance you know Vern Lunde?

 

[Coal Dragger]

Can't say that I do, but I've heard the name. He might be involved with the Fall River Gun Club, but I regret to say that I don't make many of the meetings due to work conflicts.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Vern's on the right...forcing me to drink a 9 AM Budweiser after taking his SD pronghorn.

Good man. He has taught me more about hunting, shooting and reloading in a few years than I had learned in a life time.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Looks like you two were down in the Ardmore area in the southwest corner of the state. I've stomped over that area a few times myself.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

Looks like you two were down in the Ardmore area in the southwest corner of the state. I've stomped over that area a few times myself.

Damn man! You have a keen eye.....

 

[Coal Dragger]

A keen eye, and an educated guess. There are enough antelope down there and that is where I'd look for them to be.

 

[Sako Shooter]

MOA groups with a lightweight factory hunting rifle with factory hunting ammo is exceptional IMO. I can do it with 3 brands of hunting ammo with my .243, but not every time of course. I can pretty much guarantee 1.5 MOA, though.

I don't think it's just me. I read a lot of gun tests, and it is relatively rare to find a tested lightweight hunting factory rifle with factory hunting ammo to consistently shoot MOA.

With handloads tuned to your rifle, that's a different story all together.

 

[blackops]

If you can hold a minute of angle out to 300 yds, your rifle can hang with a typical military sniper rifle.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

That is the key right there. Shooting from a bench will tell you how well a rifle shoots from a bench and it will tell you if your rifle shoots tight groups when you shoot several times including from a cold bore. But the only way to know if your rifle will shoot well from a cold bore is to try it that way. I always pay particular attention to the first shot a rifle makes. I have several rifles that will shoot great once they are warmed up and before they get too hot. But finding a rifle that will shoot well on the first shot from a cold bore is a whole other thing.

A hunting rifle really should be zeroed on that first shot when the rifle is cold. You don't get warm up shots when you're hunting unless you shoot in one place then drive really fast to another spot and hope you see your game before the rifle cools off. It just doesn't happen that way in other words.

To add to this thought....how does it shoot after the bore is fouled? I have had some rilfes that shot better with a dirty bore. The difference in the POA/POI maybe less if you shoot a cold bore shot from a fouled barrel vs a clean barrel. I had a Tikka that I would put away dirty prior to a hunt since I knew it's 1st shot accuracy was more dependant on the bore being dirty vs the bore being cold.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

If you can hold a minute of angle out to 300 yds, your rifle can hang with a typical military sniper rifle.

???

Maybe I am not reading what your are trying to say correctly.

A rifle's minute of angle accuracy is constant no matter the distance.

 

[Virg461]

LOL! Took my last pronghorn right at 300 yards.



My .25-06 hand load for my Cooper M52 shoots 3/8" groups at 100 yards. Didn't need to fool around anymore with it.

No, I'd say that's good enough! Nice rifle. And nice antelope. I'd love to get out west sometime and give them a try. Don't see many of those on the east coast.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

No, I'd say that's good enough! Nice rifle. And nice antelope. I'd love to get out west sometime and give them a try. Don't see many of those on the east coast.

Born and raised in St. Petersburg, FL. I haven't found any pronghorn on the beaches yet....

 

[ZeroJunk]

rifle's minute of angle accuracy is constant no matter the distance.

Maybe not. There was a long discussion on TFL a few years ago digging in to the physics of bullet wobble etc. and observation and some of the guys made a pretty convincing argument that a rifle that shoots a 1 inch group at 100 yards could shoot a 2 inch group at 300 yards. It's not intuitive to me , but they have me believing that there may be something to it.

BTW, the observation part was actually shooting bullets through a thin membrane and measuring the group of the same bullets over distance. The group did not expand at a constant rate.

 

[nathan]

That antelope meat is great for stew and hot chili .

 

[Coal Dragger]

Pretty much all of my rifles like a little bit of fouling in them for best accuracy.

The Coopers shoot really well from a clean bore, but they both shoot a bit better fouled.