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Hunting video - very troubling

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by qlajlu, Oct 21, 2006.

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  1. qlajlu

    qlajlu Member

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    Watch this video.

    I find this very troubling. If ever the Four Rules were violated, it is here. That one hunter is very lucky to walk away with his life. That whole scene is bad. There is an apparently enraged, attacking wild boar, and a hunter in the way of shots fired.
     
  2. solareclipse

    solareclipse Member

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    quite improper to draw conclusions about the situation. they were moving, could have simply been going to a vantage point, you never know. the boar ambushed them and they saved their buddy's life.

    would you have rather they not shoot and let the boar impale him? rules are only rules to the point of common sense.
     
  3. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    I lean more towards qlajlu's opinion. You just don't shoot at a target directly in front of your buddy.
     
  4. brerrabbit

    brerrabbit Member

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    Ever seen what a boar can do with those tusks? I think most of the shots were aimed downwards and while possibly in the direct line of the other hunter, considering the circumstances, I think them boys did fine.
     
  5. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    I'd suggest that that's fine, but everyone should be on-board with those rules before heading out. The other guys have a right to know what they're getting into before heading out, and I think you'd have a duty to tell them.
     
  6. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity Member

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    Not only were shot's fired at the boar when the other hunter was in the background, it appears the one that slide down the hill swept the other two with his rifle. :what:
     
  7. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    Somebody's lucky. Fortunately not the hog... :eek:
     
  8. larry starling

    larry starling Member

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    I guess it would have been fine to let your partners get roughed up by the boar as long as you didn't violate the 4 rules....with out being there it's pretty easy to judge something. But if you or I had to make a split decision in the matter of a few seconds can you honestly say you wouldn't do the same thing they did???:fire:
     
  9. blarney

    blarney Member

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    Wild Boars are some mean nasty animals and though the 4rules were not followed perfectly I don't really see the problem. Sometimes in a deadly situation you have to break some rules in order to stay alive and healthy it's the nature of the beast. Just like any other rule there are those certain and very rare circumstances where you have to ignore them. This isn't a blatant disregard for the rules but the ability to quickly asses a situation and know what to do, this is called training.
     
  10. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Hey, if any of you guys ever see a boar with big, sharp tusks charging at my crotchal area, feel free to break all the rules you want as long as you turn him into a big pile of future ham sandwiches before he gores my Pride 'n Joy and the Twins.
    Thanks in advance...

    Biker:)
     
  11. Rezin

    Rezin Member

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    yup.....
     
  12. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    the four rules are guidelines not some holy fricking scripture.

    If you do some like that to me at the range expect at the very least a dirty warning look and at worse a hurtin if a bullet whizs by my head.

    However, as biker has so well said, if we are ever out hunting together and out of nowhere mr wild boar comes charging at my cookies to hell with the four rules shoot the friggin thing and try not to shoot me in the process. And if the thing does get those tusks in me and your excuse is anything short of I couldn't get a clear shot and was more along the lines of something about the four rules expect a sledge hammer of verbal abuse :cuss:
     
  13. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    To paraphrase Tom Clancy...

    "The Rules" aren't a suicide pact...
     
  14. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok, let's slow down.

    I looked at the clip and had to back it up and run it over and over and stop and start it just to tell what happened.

    It looks like the lead guy had moved back parallel with the second hunter. He also looked to be slightly down slope. That would put him out of the line of fire of the second hunter who looks to be using a handgun.

    As the boar charges #2 starts to shoot first, but I can see that hunter #1 slips down slope and doesn't catch his footing and starts to slide down hill. About the same time the boar starts to swing down hill slightly like it's following his motion. At the same time it sounds like the third hunter, the guy farthest away from the boar, starts shooting as the boar comes into line past #2.

    As the boar and hunter #1 slide/fall down hill I think both #2 and #3 are shooting at the boar. Probably a bad idea, but they're caught up in the moment without seeing their buddy is in the line of fire part of the time.

    Eventually the boar is headed almost straight down slope and #1 is angeling off to the right while #2 and #3 are shooting straight down slope at the boar and not towards #1.

    Check and see if I've seen that correctly.
     
  15. dragongoddess

    dragongoddess member

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    After watching the video several times I hear several pistol shots and 1 rifle shot. From what I can see it was the other guy with the rifle uphill that shot. Problem is the shot looked to be in front of the guy with the pistol.

    It was a lucky day for at least 2 of the three hunters if not all three.

    Funny that there was a camera there to catch this. One wonders if this was a staged event that went bad.
     
  16. Mr White

    Mr White Member

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    Maybe it was Dick Cheney hunting. Didja ever think of that possibility? :D
     
  17. dragongoddess

    dragongoddess member

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    Nah Dick would have had a heart attack walking over ground like that.
     
  18. strambo

    strambo Member

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    ;)
    I think those without military experience, especially infantry/CQB type have a hard time understanding what is appropriate to train for and in combat vs just shooting in more normal circumstances.

    You have to point real guns at people to do FoF training. Your gonna be shooting very close to people in CQB. We would engage as close as 1 meter in front of someone else (with the angle of fire not towards them). Now, if the backdrop...is your buddy that isn't good. As long as there is an angle where your rounds aren't going directly toward him, then your good to go. One obviously starts off slow at a "crawl" pace with walkthroughs, then dry-fire, then blank fire (walk), then if everything is safe...live fire (run).

    It looks to me like you reversed your analysis HSO. The shots are fired at the Boar by #2 & #3 from left to right while the hunter is going down the hill. That's why he didn't get hit by gunfire, good angle. As the boar falls faster than the hunter, the angle puts it in line with him, but I didn't hear a shot at that point. The hunters did right and stopped when the angles were bad (by luck or design, I don't know).

    Edit: just played and paused it over and over. The first 5 shots had a good to passable angle...the very last shot #6 had the hunter in, or very, very close to the direct line of fire but it looks like the shot went into Mr. piggy. I've had a SAW in CQB shoot as close to me as shots 1-4...5&6 were too close.
     
  19. meef

    meef Member

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    I'm one of those fortunate people who has been blessed with absolutely perfect 20-20 hindsight. I am the proverbial Monday Morning Quarterback.

    My analysis and decision making capabilities have always been faultless on any situation I've had the opportunity to review after it occurred and decide what should have in fact been done.

    The really neat part about this ability is how it also allows me the luxury of picking apart other people's actions and sagely advising them as to what they should have done, too.

    Now... if I could only get that remarkable talent to work quite as well when I'm under fire, I'd have it made.

    :cool:
     
  20. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    The four rules apply to controlled shooting environments.

    They do not apply in a combat environment and that's exactly the environment that hunter being attacked by the boar was in.

    He is very lucky that his buddies thought fast and reacted in a manner that quite possibly saved his life.

    All you anal, zero tolerance, range nazi types need to get a grip and think about what can and does happen in the real world and realize that on occassion situations occur where the rules not only need to be but absolutely must be broken.
     
  21. Fosbery

    Fosbery Member

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    The hunter who slides down the hill was not lined up with theo ther two hunters and the boar until after they stopped shooting, and even then it was only for a fraction of a second.

    Even if the board had been directly inbetween them, the four rules simply do not apply in this sort of situation. They are for hunting, target shooting, drilling etc. Not for self defence (as this is) or combat. In those situations they are just a wish list of things you'd like. It would be nice if you could be sure of what is beyond your target for instance, but in combat this is often impossible.
     
  22. strambo

    strambo Member

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    Sarcasm noted meef, but I find my life goes a lot easier when I learn from other people's mistakes as opposed to when I insist on making them all myself. You can make all the mistakes you want...as long as you don't make the one that kills you.:scrutiny:

    The mistakes made by 4 Blackwater operators in '04 and my "monday morning quarterbacking" was foremost in my mind when I advised our PSD team to turn down a mission in Iraq with similar difficulties. Would we have been surrounded by a mob, dragged out and lynched by the nearly 3.5 million Shia's in that area? Would we have been hit in one of the 3 large bombings by Sunni's trying to ignite a civil war that happened that day? Beats me, didn't seem worth the risk for the value of the mission in foresight. We weren't delivering perishable organs to a hospital for a dying patient or anything. In hindsight our decision was certainly backed up by the high Shia body count from all the bombings in the area.


    You do that by, instead of thinking the lesson applies to others, applying it to yourself and conduct rehearsals based on your analysis. I am used to "monday morning quarterbacking" all the operations I do too. It's called an after action review.

    To relate it to this situation, If I was gonna go on a group hunt, you bet we'd have a discussion on angles of fire in an emergency. Could show 'em this video and talk about our spacing, how we were gonna walk etc... I don't hunt, so I just do this as it pertains to live fire training and combat.

    We watch videos of fellow soldiers getting hit by IEDs and ambushes and monday morning quarterback the heck out of those too. Not because we are better than them, but because we know we are them and we can only survive by becoming better.
     
  23. Gunpacker

    Gunpacker Member

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    Common sense does trump the "4 rules."

    Not sure, but it appears that the 4 rule advocates would rather the hog just tore up the hunters. Something that we would not do when being "perfectly safe" are permissable when a greater danger appears. I would rather have a well trained friend shoot within a few inches of me than to allow an attacking knife wielder to get to me, for instance.
     
  24. strambo

    strambo Member

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    You always want to apply all 4 rules if you can. Sometimes ya gotta break one. Like point a firearm at a person for force on force training. Or shoot a BG, sweep the hostage and shoot the BG on the other side. Not gonna lower the muzzle, then come back up again. In this scenario, they could have followed all 4 rules (as in it would have been possible), but I believe violated rule #4 with shot #6.

    Treat all firearms as if loaded, check. Keep finger off trigger until ready to fire, check. Don't point at anything you don't wish to destroy, check-only pointed at Boar as far as I could tell. Know target and what's behind it, for shots 1-5 check, shot #6 buddy behind target. May have had a brief muzzle sweep of buddy at some point, but it's hard to tell based on a home video.
     
  25. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    There's no reason you can't plan for contingiencies and still be safe. If people want to modify safety rules ahead of time they can suit themselves, I'd just suggest they all agree upon it ahead of time, without feeling pressured.

    William tell may have been an expert shot, and he may have hit the apple and missed his son, but he still killed all the men afterwards for making him take that risk.
     
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