El Tejon
Member
Animals rarely read ballistics tables. Around here the bucks read Sports Illustrated and the does usually read Better Forestkeeping.
Hunting with my 303 and the first shot didn't drop the deer
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MeekandMild
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- Joined
- Dec 25, 2002
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I once read a Faulkner sentence that ran on for three pages and a couple dozen paragraphs. It may be the longest sentence in American literature.
Personally I tend to aim lower than the shoulder, so as to hit the middle of the lung. It seems that the deer bleeds out more quickly and completely that way. Think of a deer lung as being a whole lot of blood vessels fanning out from the middle and you'll see why. Probably Faulkner would have described it in more flowery terms.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
It's less the weight of a bullet than it is the construction. Just generalizing, but a lot of the 180-grain bullets in 30-caliber are a bit thicker jacket, intended more for bigger animals than the average Ol' Bambi. They don't open up as readily as, say, a 150-grain.
Ya never know. I've hit deer in the "perfect" high-heart, low-lung area, cross-body, with a .270 130-grain and had them drop to the elbows and then jump up and run 50 or 75 yards. Other times, DRT. Same for an '06. My longest shot ever, 450 yards, I hit the buck from in front maybe four inches above his chest line. He just folded his legs and quit.
About the only guaranteed DRT, seems like, is a neck shot. I've never had a ncik-hit deer go anywhere.
Art
Ya never know. I've hit deer in the "perfect" high-heart, low-lung area, cross-body, with a .270 130-grain and had them drop to the elbows and then jump up and run 50 or 75 yards. Other times, DRT. Same for an '06. My longest shot ever, 450 yards, I hit the buck from in front maybe four inches above his chest line. He just folded his legs and quit.
About the only guaranteed DRT, seems like, is a neck shot. I've never had a ncik-hit deer go anywhere.
Art
454c
Member
Where did the bullet impact and how did the bullet travel? You said you aimed at the shoulders and the holes were about an inch apart but, you failed to say where. You fired at different positions and angles so is it possible the first bullet didn't reach the vitals?
jimmyraythomason
Member
I have stopped using wonder bullets in my deer rifles. I have found the run-of-the-mill factory rounds do just as well and are a LOT cheaper! I agree that 180 gr is too much for whitetail, I never use heavier than 150/168gr bullets in .30cal. I have had deer drop from my 8mm and have had to trail up deer shot with 30.06 and 7mm.08 all good hits.
Deanimator
Member
+1
The deer that my best friend killed this week was hit in the spine, close to the neck. He aimed for the heart/lungs, but hit a little high and to the right. The deer went down like it'd been struck with a 40mm HE-DP. The 155gr. Hornady A-Max mushroomed perfectly.
Sorry about the grammar,
This was my first deer I ever shoot in my life,
For the life of me I still don't understand my the deer didn't go down on the first shoot I hit a main blood vessel in the shoulder which I'm told that the vessel I hit would make the deer bleed to the point of dead.The second was the one that found its mark but I'm not sure what the bullet hit to make the deer run 50 feet and then the deer drops,I guess that it had a will to live with two gunshot wounds in its body.The bullets went right through the deer out to the other shoulder so their was not much meat was wasted by the bullet.
But I have been think that the 303 isn't great for the knock down power after I've had this very bad experience that didn't take down the deer right off the bat and flop it on its rear.But I might try again to use Enfield using the low grain soft point bullets or if I can find hollow point in 303 that guys are talking about.I hate to give up on my Enfield she my load on Sunday and shoot till Saturday rifle.
P.S
Does anyone here use a Mosin M44 for a deer rifle?
I was wanting pick one up but I would like to know if they make
for a good deer rifle.I have a Mosin that was made in 1909 but the darn thing is to heavy for hunting.I'm looking to use C&R guns because I hate to pay 300.00-500.00 for a rifle that a C&R has the power to do for less cash.
This was my first deer I ever shoot in my life,
For the life of me I still don't understand my the deer didn't go down on the first shoot I hit a main blood vessel in the shoulder which I'm told that the vessel I hit would make the deer bleed to the point of dead.The second was the one that found its mark but I'm not sure what the bullet hit to make the deer run 50 feet and then the deer drops,I guess that it had a will to live with two gunshot wounds in its body.The bullets went right through the deer out to the other shoulder so their was not much meat was wasted by the bullet.
But I have been think that the 303 isn't great for the knock down power after I've had this very bad experience that didn't take down the deer right off the bat and flop it on its rear.But I might try again to use Enfield using the low grain soft point bullets or if I can find hollow point in 303 that guys are talking about.I hate to give up on my Enfield she my load on Sunday and shoot till Saturday rifle.
P.S
Does anyone here use a Mosin M44 for a deer rifle?
I was wanting pick one up but I would like to know if they make
for a good deer rifle.I have a Mosin that was made in 1909 but the darn thing is to heavy for hunting.I'm looking to use C&R guns because I hate to pay 300.00-500.00 for a rifle that a C&R has the power to do for less cash.
trueblue1776
Member
MG's, I occasionally use my Mosin 91/30 for medium game, with good results.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Deer get a tremendous adrenalin surge in an elapsed time of zero seconds. That surge can allow a good amount of distance before they pile up dead. Lord only knows how many stories I've heard of blown-out hearts and Ol' Bucky made it for a hundred yards or more.
If it's a bleed-out wound and the heart's still pumping? Hey, that's anybody's guess. Lotsa those stories around, also. "We trailed that deer for darned near a mile!" and suchlike.
Art
If it's a bleed-out wound and the heart's still pumping? Hey, that's anybody's guess. Lotsa those stories around, also. "We trailed that deer for darned near a mile!" and suchlike.
Art
marksman13
Member
"Sorry about the grammar,
This was my first deer I ever shoot in my life,
For the life of me I still don't understand my the deer didn't go down on the first shoot I hit a main blood vessel in the shoulder which I'm told that the vessel I hit would make the deer bleed to the point of dead.The second was the one that found its mark but I'm not sure what the bullet hit to make the deer run 50 feet and then the deer drops,I guess that it had a will to live with two gunshot wounds in its body.The bullets went right through the deer out to the other shoulder so their was not much meat was wasted by the bullet.
But I have been think that the 303 isn't great for the knock down power after I've had this very bad experience that didn't take down the deer right off the bat and flop it on its rear.But I might try again to use Enfield using the low grain soft point bullets or if I can find hollow point in 303 that guys are talking about.I hate to give up on my Enfield she my load on Sunday and shoot till Saturday rifle.
P.S
Does anyone here use a Mosin M44 for a deer rifle?
I was wanting pick one up but I would like to know if they make
for a good deer rifle.I have a Mosin that was made in 1909 but the darn thing is to heavy for hunting.I'm looking to use C&R guns because I hate to pay 300.00-500.00 for a rifle that a C&R has the power to do for less cash."
Say what? I'm more confused then before.
This was my first deer I ever shoot in my life,
For the life of me I still don't understand my the deer didn't go down on the first shoot I hit a main blood vessel in the shoulder which I'm told that the vessel I hit would make the deer bleed to the point of dead.The second was the one that found its mark but I'm not sure what the bullet hit to make the deer run 50 feet and then the deer drops,I guess that it had a will to live with two gunshot wounds in its body.The bullets went right through the deer out to the other shoulder so their was not much meat was wasted by the bullet.
But I have been think that the 303 isn't great for the knock down power after I've had this very bad experience that didn't take down the deer right off the bat and flop it on its rear.But I might try again to use Enfield using the low grain soft point bullets or if I can find hollow point in 303 that guys are talking about.I hate to give up on my Enfield she my load on Sunday and shoot till Saturday rifle.
P.S
Does anyone here use a Mosin M44 for a deer rifle?
I was wanting pick one up but I would like to know if they make
for a good deer rifle.I have a Mosin that was made in 1909 but the darn thing is to heavy for hunting.I'm looking to use C&R guns because I hate to pay 300.00-500.00 for a rifle that a C&R has the power to do for less cash."
Say what? I'm more confused then before.
TehK1w1
Member
The 303 is a great cartridge with a long history of successful hunting in Africa. For anyone who has read The Man-Eaters of Tsavo or seen the movie Ghosts in the Darkness that is based on it, Patterson killed both of the lions with his 303.
As for the Mosin-Nagant, they are often more accurate than people seem to think, and the 7.62x62R cartridge is equal to the .30-06 in power.
As for the Mosin-Nagant, they are often more accurate than people seem to think, and the 7.62x62R cartridge is equal to the .30-06 in power.
MCgunner
Member
I never gripe at people about grammar and spelling. Something about people who live in glass houses........
mnw42
Member
My M39 will keep a five rounds into 1.5-2" at 100 yds with good amm and irons. Deer are quite resilient, and unless you hit 'em in the fuse box or through the heart that can barrel off for some distance before expiring. You could always use Mk.VII ball, but that would make a mess...
marksman13
Member
MCgunner, I don't normally say anything about grammar because I know I make mistakes too. When the post is barely understandable though...it's just a bit ridiculous.
BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2006
- Messages
- 496
I use a .308 now in 150 grain, however the 200 grain .338 ultra mag that I recently used dropped my whitetail dead in its tracks it took 2 shots but first shot was the shooter being way to exicted not the gun, but the second one dropped it now problem the same gun killed an antelope on the move right were it was got that one on video. Any how the rounds we were using are handloads with combined technology bullets you might try them. Congrats on the kill.
I know that I'm going to catch it for this, but it's all about shot placement. A man (older and wiser) told me first thing is to study your quarry! He told me the best place to put a bullet is about 2 inches above the front leg. 
That's right ! I went to whitetails.com. and looked at the anatomy. Sure enough, the spine is located about 2 inches above the front leg! That shot will drop them in their tracks! Now, you need to practice, practice, and practice! The good thing is there is hardly any destruction of good meat at this spot. And personally, I like the flanks undisturbed, because they make for some yummy bacon!
tommy
He told me the best place to put a bullet is about 2 inches above the front leg. That's right ! I went to whitetails.com. and looked at the anatomy. Sure enough, the spine is located about 2 inches above the front leg! That shot will drop them in their tracks! Now, you need to practice, practice, and practice! The good thing is there is hardly any destruction of good meat at this spot. And personally, I like the flanks undisturbed, because they make for some yummy bacon!tommy
A deer running 50 yards after the is far more the norm than the exception, the one place where every shot is DRT is on TV. Even with a heart and both lungs blown to bits, I have had deer run 50 yards or a bit more. It just takes that long for the body to get the message that its dead.
You rifle and the bullets you used worked absolutely perfectly. It help you kill the deer. The bullets left a big and easy to follow blood trail. The bullets hit where you wanted to hit. Nothing more can be asked.
I think you have been mislead by the TV shows on the hunting chanels which never show a deer running any distance. But think back to those shows, unless they hit the brain or the spine, that deer takes off running at the shot, and they cut back to the shooter doing his arm pump and rebel yell. Then the next cut is to the hunter and his guide walking up to the dead deer. There is no indication that it ran a hundred yards. That does not make good TV. But its the truth.
A Moisin is not going to kill game any better than a .303. ballistically they are peas in a pod, and no animal is going to die any faster from a MN, than they are from a SMLE or the like, its like saying which will run me over better a mustang or a camaro. but when you look at paper, they are both the same size, weight, speed and materials.
You rifle and the bullets you used worked absolutely perfectly. It help you kill the deer. The bullets left a big and easy to follow blood trail. The bullets hit where you wanted to hit. Nothing more can be asked.
I think you have been mislead by the TV shows on the hunting chanels which never show a deer running any distance. But think back to those shows, unless they hit the brain or the spine, that deer takes off running at the shot, and they cut back to the shooter doing his arm pump and rebel yell. Then the next cut is to the hunter and his guide walking up to the dead deer. There is no indication that it ran a hundred yards. That does not make good TV. But its the truth.
A Moisin is not going to kill game any better than a .303. ballistically they are peas in a pod, and no animal is going to die any faster from a MN, than they are from a SMLE or the like, its like saying which will run me over better a mustang or a camaro. but when you look at paper, they are both the same size, weight, speed and materials.
R.W.Dale
Member
What a great one liner! I may have to steal that one for the next 9mm vs 45 or 7.62x39 vs 223 debate
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