I’ve decided on my third black powder gun

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Russell13

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I’ve been wanting another revolver for my very small BP collection. I’ve decide to go right to the top and get a walker colt.
The first time I ever heard of this gun when way back when I saw the movie Unforgiven for the first time and they mention someone using one and it blowing up in there hand. I did a lot of reading about them yesterday and they have such a great history.

I do have a few questions of you guys feel like educating me.

The colt walker came out before the colt Dragoon???
What are the differences between these two guns?

why did so many of them blow up ?
 
The colt walker came out before the colt Dragoon???


What are the differences between these two guns?


why did so many of them blow up ?

Yes, The Walker Colt came out in 1847. It was the second revolver Colt made. The first was the Paterson Colt. The Paterson Colt was quite different than the later Colts. Much smaller, with some major differences in the appearance.

Basically, Colt went bankrupt after the Paterson Colt. He spent about 10 years doing several other things, but in 1847 he was approached by Captain Walker of the Texas Rangers. Walker wanted a very powerful revolver for his Rangers and he and Colt worked out the design for the new gun. It was huge, the cylinder chambers had a powder capacity or 60 grains of powder for each chamber. Stop and think for a moment that the later 45-70 cartridge used 70 grains of powder, and that will give you an idea of how large a powder charge the Walker could hold.

There were only a grand total of 1100 Walker Colts manufactured. 1000 went to the Texas Rangers, the rest were sold commercially.

Colt realized the Walker was just too big to be practical, so rather than make more, he went back to the drawing board and came up with the Dragoon series. Both were 44 caliber. The Walker weighed 4 1/2 pounds. Its barrel was 9 inches long. Too big and heavy to be worn in a belt holster, they were often referred to has horse pistols, carried in holsters slung from the saddle. The Dragoons were still big, heavy revolvers, but not quite as big as the Walker. The Dragoon barrel was 7 1/2" long, the cylinder chambers held about 50 grains of powder. The Dragoons used a new device to keep the loading lever snugged up under the barrel, a spring loaded latch under the muzzle. The Walker had a spring loaded latch near the loading lever pivot that did not work very well. Loading levers on the Walker often dropped down from recoil. The loading ram would enter a chamber at the bottom of the cylinder, effectively locking up thee gun until the lever was raised again. There were several different models of Dragoon produced up until 1860. They were still very heavy revolvers, they weighed about 4 pounds 4 ounces. I shot a borrowed pair once at a CAS match. Really heavy. Consider the Colt Single Action Army only weighs about 2 1/2 pounds.

They tended to blow up for two reasons. The power capacity of the cylinder was just too much and metallurgy was not as advanced as it is today. Walker cylinders were made of iron, not steel. Often the iron was poorly made, with porosity in the metal. Combine that with the huge powder charges, and it is a recipe for cylinders to blow up. Also, in the field some troopers were loading a conical bullet backwards, which may have contributed to the problem by raising pressure.


By the way, Colt continued using iron, not steel for frames and cylinders right up through the early Single Action Army production into the mid 1880s. But the powder charges were not so huge, and most of the iron cylinder SAAs survived just fine.
 
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Russell13,

Congrats on your choice! I like the looks of the Walker but not the weight or the load lever problems. Last year I decided to go instead with the Uberti 1848 Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon which has the Walker grip frame (wood/backstrap/trigger guard) but has the Dragoon sized cylinder (40 grains BP max) and a 7.5" barrel, and weighs in at 4 lbs.-2 oz. It is still a very large revolver.

Comparison photo:

Armi San Marco 1860 Army .44 BD/1994
Uberti 1848 WH Dragoon .44 CU/2019
Pietta 1851 Navy Second Model Belt Dragoon .36 CM/2014 (fantasy revolver of my own concoction)

Uberti-Whitneyville-003.jpg

Midway has them on sale now (believe it or not!) for $360 (normally $426). That is a smokin' deal!

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002300991?pid=739564

Regards,

Jim
 
Whelp, I’ve finally changed my mind concerning a certain variety of question.

Russell, Wikipedia can be your fren sometimes - but only if you choose to use it. They got pichers there, too.
 
Whelp, I’ve finally changed my mind concerning a certain variety of question.

Russell, Wikipedia can be your fren sometimes - but only if you choose to use it. They got pichers there, too.
Yeah did some fancy book reading on it. I didn’t see anything about the dragoon. It makes sense though. Read lots about the walkers problem with the loading lever and cylinder blow out. It would make sense that a better version would replace it.
 
Colt entered into contract with Eli Whitney Jr to build the Walker. Whitney was known to cut corners on contracts and with Colt he was no different. The cylinders blew up because the wrought iron was used was weaker than specified.


However, even after Colt got his own factory up and running there were problems with cylinders. Dragoon cylinders were known to blow up and the early 1860, with full fluted cylinders, guess why they are not common these days?

Kevin
 
I own a ASM Walker, it has been tweaked and tuned and is an excellent shooter. Biggest issue is getting the arbor corrected, mine has actually destroyed the original wedge. Made a new one, re correctecd the arbor and good to go. So be sure the arbor bottoms in the barrel frame.
 
Get it. I bought a Uberti. Pretty fun to shoot. Mine works great right out of the box. The loading lever has never dropped. I use 50 grains. Don’t worry about the weight. It’s not like you have to carry it around all day.
 
I had to do a little work to smooth out the action. It wasn’t cocking right, there are a lot of sharp edges on it. Used an emery board and got it running pretty smooth. Took it out back and made sure it fired all the caps. Worked like a charm
 
Which is exactly why I have never been interested in a Walker or a Dragoon. In CAS we do carry them around all day. Two of them.
Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend one for that for sure. But for a novelty just to play with it’s alright. I would have to admit I like my ROA a lot better though.
 
I couldn’t imagine someone wearing this in a holster all day.

If you can obtain a copy of Charlie Pate's The Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver (2018), on pp 20-21 there is a listing of pre-Civil War US Army contracts with Colt concerning dates from 1847 to May 1960 that address 1851 Navies and 1848 3rd Model Dragoons, with or without shoulder stocks. This was prior to the introduction of the 1860 Army revolver insofar as US Army contracts. The Navies are referred to as belt pistols and the Dragoons are referred to as holster pistols (as in saddle pommel holsters). The Dragoons (referred to by Pate as Old Model Armies/OMA) were replaced by Colt with 1860 Army (New Model Armies/NMA). The NMA was a belt pistol, based upon the 1851 Navy frame.

Regards,

Jim
 
I bought my first Black Powder revolver in 1968.

An Uberti brass framed 44 caliber 'Navy'. No, I did not know back then that the 1851 Navy was never chambered for 44 caliber balls, only 36. Did not know that Colt never made any brass framed Cap & Ball revolvers either. All I knew was the price was right, somewhere around $40 if I recall correctly. 1968 dollars of course. Hmmm, an inflation calculator says that would be almost $300 today.

Anyway, that would have been when I bought my first can of Goex. Don't really remember what it looked like, perhaps it looked like the can with the powder horn on it.

po10HmLRj.jpg
 
My first C&B revolver was also a brass framed 44 caliber 'Navy', but mine was made by Armi San Marco. I did not know that the 1851 Navy was never chambered for 44 caliber either, and I'm sure I wouldn't have cared. I bought what I could afford at the time and it got me hooked.
I still have it, and she still works just fine.
 
I just found out some more cool information. I was looking up the different scrolling patterns on the colt revolvers and I found out that one of the main reasons they have ungracious g is to prevent people from selling fake ones. So if you saw the cylinder with the engravings you knew you had a real colt. Not sure how true that is but it seems logical.
 
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