I am ready for 357SIG

[vaalpens]

I did a little bit more testing today and still found the Xtreme 124gr CPHP more consistent in retaining the COL.

I tested the Xtreme with the nickel brass, a chamfer (no bell), crimp from seating die. The COL started at 1.1350" and after 9 cycles, it was still at 1.135".

I also tested the Xtreme with normal brass, a bell, and again using the crimp from the seating die. The COL started at 1.1355" and after 8 cycles, it was still at 1.1355".

The bathroom scale test also came in over 30lb for both these combinations, so I think I am really comfortable that I won't see any setback using the Xtreme 124gr CPHP's with either a chamfer or a bell. This is probably the combination I will use when starting my 357sig load workup.

Thanks again for all the advice. I will definitely post some results as soon as I am able to try out my loads.

 

[picker]

vaalpens, after looking at the finished pic that I posted of 357 crimp, I realized it may be a little light I think 0.375 will give a more suitable finish crimp.
Best/joe

 

[JimKirk]

Vaalpens ...
My nickle and brass cases, both once fired, measured 0.349" INSIDE after sizing and 0.3745 Outside after sizing ... with a 124 gr Hornady XTP seated ... they both measured 0.3775" outside ... my COL ran pretty much right on 1.140" with a few hitting 1.141" & 1.142"

Like you ... I'm measuring with a caliper ... a new set of calipers at that ... I knocked a cup of epoxy over on my older set and was more in tune with the "feel" of them ...

Looks like my measurements are fairly close to what picker measured...

I didn't have any HAP loaded loaded to measure...

 

[picker]

I was studying the pic's when I realized I had some factory loaded 357 sig after measuring several of them their finished crimp was 0.375,
Im going to recrimp mine, looking at the factory stuff[Winchester] and feeling the crimp it was obvious 0.375 was a much better feeling/looking crimp measurement and should eliminate set back.
Best/joe

 

[vaalpens]

I was finally able to try out my 357sig today and also the few reloads I did. The factory ammo gave me a 1.25" grouping at 10 yards, but my reloads were all over the place. The reloads had plenty of snap to them, so at least I now have a baseline and I should be able to lower the powder about .2 or .3 grain. The loads I started with were 6.6gr Unique and 7.7gr Longshot using Xtreme 124gr CP HP bullets. I will also try out less crimp but will probably have to start with some dummy rounds again to make sure I don't have any setback. I did not see any key holing, so I assume I did not exceed the max for the plated bullets. The next time around I will also try increasing the COL to see if it changes anything. I have a lot of things to work, but nobody said loading 357sig will not be challenging.

Thanks again for all the advise I have received so far.

 

[gamestalker]

I got in on this thread late, sorry.

But as for seating without belling, this is a very effective means to resolving set back issues. I don't load anything except jacketed, so don't know how it will work with plated. But I would imagine that is you give the mouths a little chamfer, plated bullets should seat ok without belling, therefore no need to crimp either.

BTW, I don't own a 357 sig, but I do reload that cartridge, and am aware of the set back issues some have, as there isn't a whole lot of neck to provide neck tension. So I have indeed used the no bell, no crimp seating method, and had zero issues with set back.

GS

 

[vaalpens]

I got in on this thread late, sorry.

But as for seating without belling, this is a very effective means to resolving set back issues. I don't load anything except jacketed, so don't know how it will work with plated. But I would imagine that is you give the mouths a little chamfer, plated bullets should seat ok without belling, therefore no need to crimp either.

BTW, I don't own a 357 sig, but I do reload that cartridge, and am aware of the set back issues some have, as there isn't a whole lot of neck to provide neck tension. So I have indeed used the no bell, no crimp seating method, and had zero issues with set back.

GS

gamestalker, thanks for the insight in your process. Using plated bullets I am a bit concerned not belling, so I would probably stay with the belling for now. I am just going to lessen the crimp to a minimum, juts to ensure the belling is removed and also ensure I have no setback. I have already tested out a couple of dummy rounds and it seems I should be able to keep the crimp to a minimum.

Which jacketed bullet do you use for 357sig?

 

[vaalpens]

I have made a minor change to my crimping process when loading 357sig, and also tried out some Berry's HBFP TP 124gr. bullets. The change I made was to crimp less (about 2/6th turn) on the Lee FCD and aiming for a .378" diameter instead of .376". It seems the 357sig brass is a bit thicker than 9mm brass.

The the crimp change and trying the Berry's, I went through my normal plunk test, setback and bathroom scale test. The HBFP TP's passed all tests.

Loading the Berry's I also found that it was much easier to get to the 1.135" COL irrespective of the length of the brass. This is obviously due to the shape of the bullet.

Now the results: I tested both the Xtreme 124gr .355" CPHP bullet and the Berry's 124gr .356" HBFP TP bullet. Bothe were loaded with the same crimp, COL and powder.

This is the first time I have loaded the Berry's 124gr .356" HBFP TP, and I am impressed. The best grouping I got from the Xtreme was 1.5" at 10yards, but the .1gr above and below was very bad. The bullet itself is accurate and I use it for 9mm, but it does not look to be suited for 357sig.

The best grouping I got from the Berry's was .81" at 10yards, with a 1.66" grouping at a .1gr lower charge. This bullet seems like it will be a good plated bullet to use for 357sig. I can probably stop at the load I have, but I will work up a ladder and see how it performs up to 25yards.

 

[just for fun]

Just saw your post and after reading all others, no one has recommended you read posts at www.realguns.com! Left top of home page has a listing of articles, at the end of that listing it says- More articles. Go there. In the search block enter- 357Sig. Results should be a three page article on reloading this round. ( rethinking the 357 Sig round-again ) For me it was more than just helpful. Solid, useable info.
Chased "setback" for yrs. Montana Gold bullets put an end to all that drama! Still "plunk check" and bench press EVERY round. The naysayers will chime in and say all that is not needed. My only reply is> your gun, your hand, your eyes, govern yourself accordingly. Still reload it now and then, ordered a 40 caliber barrel from KKM. Should have done that years ago! Down loads and above 9MM+ AA-2 Full house loads Bluedot.

 

[vaalpens]

Just saw your post and after reading all others, no one has recommended you read posts at www.realguns.com! Left top of home page has a listing of articles, at the end of that listing it says- More articles. Go there. In the search block enter- 357Sig. Results should be a three page article on reloading this round. ( rethinking the 357 Sig round-again ) For me it was more than just helpful. Solid, useable info.
Chased "setback" for yrs. Montana Gold bullets put an end to all that drama! Still "plunk check" and bench press EVERY round. The naysayers will chime in and say all that is not needed. My only reply is> your gun, your hand, your eyes, govern yourself accordingly. Still reload it now and then, ordered a 40 caliber barrel from KKM. Should have done that years ago! Down loads and above 9MM+ AA-2 Full house loads Bluedot.

just for fun, thanks for the comments and the information. I have read the article a while ago, but should probably read it again. As you pick up experience things make more sense and I would probably get even more out of the article. I always look at realguns.com load data to validate what I am doing when working up loads. It gives me a max load to compare against, and the net water capacity column helps me understand the differences in COL's between bullets.

For now I have settled on using the RMR 124gr hardcore Match Plated Flat Nose bullets and the Berry's 124gr HBFP TP bullets for 357sig. I have no setback issues anymore and these are rated up to 1500fps. I will try the Montana Gold bullets as some point once I have completed my load development with Unique, Longshot and Power Pistol. Those 3 powders give me a nice variety, and once settled, then I will branch out with a new bullet.

I don't plunk test and bench press every round, but I was thinking that I should at least test a few per load.

 

[just for fun]

A few rainy nights ago I thought it might be a good idea to replace a few rounds after going through a bunch. Encountered two failures with two different rounds. One failed the plunk test, most likely due to case being too long resulting in bulged shoulder. the other was setback. This was with once fired Speer brass. Because I was using Montana Gold bullets, I believe it was the result of case failure- as in too soft of a case. I load on a single stage press and it is easy to tell when the case resizes too easy by the amount of pull on the handle. I resize in two steps first with a 40 carbide die and again with a lee 357 steel die. Very slow but it works. So where is all this rambling leading? Two failures in 100 rounds. The only reason I continue to load the 357Sig is to prove to myself that I can!!

 

[JimKirk]

I believe it was the result of case failure- as in too soft of a case.

JFF .... do you mind explaining this ... I'd like to understand what you are saying better...

 

[vaalpens]

just for fun, thanks again for your comments.

I resize in two steps first with a 40 carbide die and again with a lee 357 steel die. Very slow but it works.

You think you are slow, I just changed my process again regarding case prep:
1) Quick 2 hours in tumbler so it is not that dirty going into resizing dies
2) Test a few through my Lee bulge buster and see if it needs debulging. If some does, then everything goes through my Lee bulge buster with some lube.
3) Decap and resize with Lee 40 carbide die with a little lube
4) Resize with Lee 357sig die. Again a little lube
5) Wash with Dawn and Lemishine to remove all lube (step since lube let gunk build up in tumbler)
6) Dry brass outside in AZ sun
7) Another 4 hours in tumbler to make it pretty
8) Ready for brush, prime and load on single stage

The only reason I continue to load the 357Sig is to prove to myself that I can!!

I load 357sig since I love the challenge, I love shooting the 357sig, and it is very expensive to shoot factory 357sig.

 

[just for fun]

Case too soft is (to me) a feel kind of thing. I can only describe it by comparing resizing a 38 special case that is split. Just by feel of resistance to the handle on the press, you know TO LOOK ,as it went through the die too easy. Same with 357Sig brass, it may not be split but the "springiness" isn't there. Normally I'll deep six it, as, I believe, this springiness is directly related to neck tension.
Jim we are neighbor's I'm in Ray City. Drove to Ambrose Wed. For a pound of pistol powder. Valdosta is dry!!

 

[just for fun]

Vaalpens, it was the cost of factory ammo that lead me to the purchase of my one and only glock pistol! Bought it used at a gun show, price was very good, maybe too good everybody else knew the cost of factory ammo. I had never heard of a 357Sig! Seller said it was a hot-rodded 9MM. I was already loading for 9's anyway so how big of a deal could this 357 Sig be. And so began my trials and tribulations with the 357.
with that much effort into your brass you may want to check out White Diamond polish (Advance Auto) Got an ole 23 T-bucket that I still show and have used about every known polish on the market. On my hotrod this stuff took the brass to a new level. Sooo- I added some to a fresh batch of corncob media and OH MY. Not that anybody will ever see it, but it sure impresses the heck out of me!!

 

[JimKirk]

Just For Fun ... PM on the way ...

I used to go to Ray City with my uncle all the time ... he was Air Force retired Moody ... we always stopped at the little country groc. and got a coke and pack of peanuts ...