carnaby
Member
ACBMWM3, what part of Seattle are you in? I'm in Wedgwood, so hopefully you're close by.
I applied for my FFL you think ill get it?
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Jvandenhaus
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I got my 01FFL last summer. Piece of cake. Be nice to your interviewer. Dress for the interview as you would a job interview. Be professional, this is not the time for the "I shouldn't have to get a license for this" conversation. Don't be that guy You know what they call that guy....denied.
My interview never left the dining room table. He didn't inspect premises at all.
He let me know what to expect, when I needed to expect it, and what to do about it. He also let me know he was going to pass me before the interview was finished.
Total elapsed time, application to interview, 30 days. Interview to license in my hand, 18 days.
In short, if you can get it, there is no reason you won't get it.
I don't even charge for transfers.
My interview never left the dining room table. He didn't inspect premises at all.
He let me know what to expect, when I needed to expect it, and what to do about it. He also let me know he was going to pass me before the interview was finished.
Total elapsed time, application to interview, 30 days. Interview to license in my hand, 18 days.
In short, if you can get it, there is no reason you won't get it.
I don't even charge for transfers.
carnaby
Member
How does one start the FFL process? I'm running a side business as a AR-15 upper assembler/retailer, and I'm looking at providing lowers and complete rifles as well. I'd also like to do a minor amount of 1911 trigger work, and I don't know if I need a gunsmith FFL, a retail FFL, or other.
Jvandenhaus
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IIRC, go to the ATF website and request the application packet.
While you are waiting for that, go get 4 passport photos done and investigate your local zoning office's requirements for operating a business out of your location.
And BTW, if you are running a "side business" assembling weapons, or doing any gunsmithing or refinishing, you must get an 01FFL.
While you are waiting for that, go get 4 passport photos done and investigate your local zoning office's requirements for operating a business out of your location.
And BTW, if you are running a "side business" assembling weapons, or doing any gunsmithing or refinishing, you must get an 01FFL.
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paintballdude902
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ok dont mean to hijack but what is so hard about a transfer here we have people that dont do them charge 50,40.and 20
doesnt it take like 10 mins including the time it takes for the paper work?
doesnt it take like 10 mins including the time it takes for the paper work?
dogtown tom
Member
Go here: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/fflc/ffl_info.htm
Common Types of FFL's:
01 Firearms Dealer
02 Pawnbroker
03 Collector of Curios & Relics
06 Manufacturer of Ammunition
07 Manufacturer of Firearms
If you plan on assembling lowers to uppers get an 07.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#h6
Fixed it for ya. Also if he is 18-20 but buying ammo for a handgun that is illegal.
It's because all dealers are predatory lazy scum. Or haven't you been reading these boards?
I have to say I'm about to quit doing it for any but existing customers. I am having a blowout deal on some guns I picked up cheap. I transferred about 20 guns today. In the middle of all this one guy comes in and wants to do a transfer, dumps the fax number on the counter.
So now I have to stop interacting with customers at the counter and set up the fax and fax the thing. I hope it will go through.
When it comes the post office will try to deliver it before I open so I will have to make an extra trip to the PO, stand in line and collect the package. Then I will get it through the door, open it up, unwrap piles of plastic and tape. Hopefully dufus remembered to include an FFL, photo ID, and also some idea who is getting this thing. Then I have to call the guy. Maybe I will get him. Maybe I will leave a message. Hopefully he will come in that day and get it. But maybe he is out of town for a week or 10 days. So now I am stuck storing it and taking responsibility for the thing. Eventually he will make it in. Of course the address on his DL will not match what he put on his 4473 so I will have to get him to scrounge through his car for an electric bill or water bill or voter's registration or somesuch to prove residence. If the gun isn't what he wants I'll have to pack it up, get an ffl (assuminghe didnt include one) and ship it back. If my customer can't pass the background check then the gun is in limbo. And on and on.
Yeah, 10 minutes.
MachIVshooter
Member
Because a gun shop is a for-profit business, and with internet sales what they are today, they'd never sell a thing if they only charged $5 or $10 for a transfer. Who would want to buy a $500 gun and pay $40 in tax on top of that if they can order it online for $475 and pay only $30 or $40 in transfer and shipping fees?
The rising transfer fees are the only way FFL's can make a profit, either by a decent margin on the transfer or by making it a financial wash to order online vs. buy in the store.
Some of the FFL's I know charge $30 for a transfer of items they don't stock, $50 if the transfer is identical to a gun sitting on their shelf. Quite frankly, I don't see a problem with this. But for some reason, many people expect FFL's to work for free.
Guess what happens when someone asks us to install parts on their vehicle that weren't purchased through our shop. That's right, we bump the labor 20% to compensate.
It costs money to run a business, and you can't let Mr. McFrugal walk all over you.
ACBMWM3
member
I sure do have another source of income. This is just a for fun thing
I work from home so I thought why not?
I work from home so I thought why not?
redneck2
Member
If this thing gets off the ground, you'll figure it out in a few months. After you're stuck at the counter for a few hours listening to some idiot blabber on, you'll be ready to use one of the inventory on yourself.
All those idiotic posts you see here??? You get that in person and you won't have someone else telling the guy he's an idiot.
FYI, keep track of your shooting expenses.
The IRS allows personal expenses for hobbies to be itemized and deducted (Schedule A, form 1040) if you are progessing toward making a small business out of it. Things like the application fee, the notary fee, the copying fee, the cost of training, the cost of teaching yourself, the cost of buying stuff to try out, etc.
For example:
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq/0,,id=199650,00.html
Also, swing by the US Small Business Administration (www.sba.gov); you might be eligible for grant money or EZ-term loans.
The IRS allows personal expenses for hobbies to be itemized and deducted (Schedule A, form 1040) if you are progessing toward making a small business out of it. Things like the application fee, the notary fee, the copying fee, the cost of training, the cost of teaching yourself, the cost of buying stuff to try out, etc.
For example:
http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq/0,,id=199650,00.html
Also, swing by the US Small Business Administration (www.sba.gov); you might be eligible for grant money or EZ-term loans.
muddywatters
Member
Hope you get it and glad you are trying! Keep us up to date and I'd love to use you for upcoming transfers.
-mud
-mud
Tom S.
Member
I am surprised that no one mentioned becoming incorporated (maybe I missed it?).
Without incorporating, you are putting your home, possessions and future income at risk in the event of a lawsuit. By incorporating, you put a level of protection against that affecting your personal property.
Next is insurance. Some insurance companies will not insure a home business (MIC comes to mind), so make sure your insurance company is informed and ok with it.
I had a FFL for several years without any problems from customers or BATF, with one exception: the last visit I got from an ATF agent, he complained because I limited sales to people I knew. His position (technically correct) was that a business is supposed to be open to the general public. When I asked if he would be happy that I sold a gun to his mentally unstable neighbor, he agreed that he appreciated what/why I did business my way, but he was obligated to point out what BATF defined as "business".
Without incorporating, you are putting your home, possessions and future income at risk in the event of a lawsuit. By incorporating, you put a level of protection against that affecting your personal property.
Next is insurance. Some insurance companies will not insure a home business (MIC comes to mind), so make sure your insurance company is informed and ok with it.
I had a FFL for several years without any problems from customers or BATF, with one exception: the last visit I got from an ATF agent, he complained because I limited sales to people I knew. His position (technically correct) was that a business is supposed to be open to the general public. When I asked if he would be happy that I sold a gun to his mentally unstable neighbor, he agreed that he appreciated what/why I did business my way, but he was obligated to point out what BATF defined as "business".
ACBMWM3
member
Actually you would want to be an LLC (limited liability company) being an Inc. wont help you much, with an LLC you ae not held liable or maybe a limited ammount hence the name.
I own 3 pretty decent size companies, one of which manufactures titanium exhaust systems for performance cars and its an LLC for a reason.
Hairballusmaximus
Member
Not trying to hi-jack this thread, but I have a question. I looked into an FFL about 6 months ago and gave up because I live in the county and not in town limits. The prob is the county does NOT require a business license which is fine but the licensing agency requires either a business license or a letter stating that a business license is not required and my county will not give me such letter.
Any ideas??
Hairball
Any ideas??
Hairball
rscalzo
Member
I have too many concerns about that type of operation..
Having the primises which would be my home checked at by the ATF.
Having strangers come into my home to purchase or inspect firearms.
Is the possibility of being involved in a lawsuit over a sale of a firearm used in an improper manner covered? homeowners will not cover that type of liability that arrives out of a business dealing. The fact that the suit might not be successful does not mean that a business will not be named causing legal fees.
Having the primises which would be my home checked at by the ATF.
Having strangers come into my home to purchase or inspect firearms.
Is the possibility of being involved in a lawsuit over a sale of a firearm used in an improper manner covered? homeowners will not cover that type of liability that arrives out of a business dealing. The fact that the suit might not be successful does not mean that a business will not be named causing legal fees.
carnaby
Member
In Washington, the State issues the business license, not the county. Isn't it the same in NH?
mgkdrgn
Member
Ya, hows about get a business license anyway, even if you are -not required- to have one.
Hairballusmaximus
Member
The bus license from town is only good for a business IN town and would not cover me at my shop at home.
I would have to get a place of business in the town limits to acquire one, which is wierd to me because they said I would have to have a bus license for town even if my business was out of town to conduct ANY form of business in town, ie: delivering a firearm, picking one up etc. but I dont qualify for one with out an address in the town limits.
I would have to get a place of business in the town limits to acquire one, which is wierd to me because they said I would have to have a bus license for town even if my business was out of town to conduct ANY form of business in town, ie: delivering a firearm, picking one up etc. but I dont qualify for one with out an address in the town limits.
dogtown tom
Member
My city did not require a business license either and I didn't have to put that in my FFL app.
After you submit your completed FFL application, ATF will schedule an interview at your premises. Your ATF Industry Operations Agent will research state and local regulations before the interview. Mine even printed out a copy of home business requirements from my city's website. He also knew what the State of Texas required for Sales Tax and Use Certificates (I already had mine).
All ATF can check at your premises is what your A&D logbook shows vs. what guns you have in stock. (For example: Your logbook shows that you received a shotgun from JohnDoeGuns Inc. Your logbook does not show a "disposition"- meaning you better have that gun in your safe or on the rack) Anything else would require a search warrant. Straighten up your sock drawer just to be safe.
There is no requirement to be open to the public. You can conduct business at the premises or at a gunshow. "Business Hours" are required by the application. This is to show that you will engage in the business of being a gun dealer. Sitting in my underwear in front of the computer scanning ads on GunBroker is "Business"
Then get a general liability policy that covers home business. I would also recommend getting insurance to cover the firearms you are holding for transfer.
A business license for WHAT?
Business licenses are for specific types of businesses. If your state, county or city doesn't require one for a firearms dealer you can't substitute one for a nail salon.If a business license is required in your locale- ATF will let you know. You won't get your FFL otherwise.
ACBMWM3
member
Have the country write you a letter stating that because you are in an unincorporated portion of the county you are not required to have a BL.
Hairballusmaximus
Member
Thats the problem!!! They tell me its policy to NOT give the letter!!
Fair question, I'll be happy to answer that: While there is nothing hard per se about a transfer, there is a lot to consider.
First, I have done a lot of transfers. "10 minutes" often turns into 45 minutes or more as the Joe tells you about the old Colt SAA that he found in his barn in mint condition, but then how it got stolen, etc etc, ---you get the idea.
Second, I charge 20 bucks for transfers, 15 bucks for repeat customers who I know and trust. 20 bucks is not too much to ask when you think of all that is involved a transfer such as a)making sure you are home to sign for the gun when it comes or driving to UPS to pick it up b)allowing a stranger in your home, and letting him get the floor plan for your most private spaces c) the money, hassle, and liability that goes with having an ffl, and d) the time.
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