I came very close to shooting a young man the other night...

[twofifty]

Quote:
"All in all, what bit of faith I had in the basic humanity of the general populace has been tested and is now tempered with a greater measure of watchful scepticism."

True enough but in defence of basic humanity, let's remember that alcohol
de-humanizes those who abuse it. Some folk are Jeckyl and Hyde when boozed up, men and women alike.

If it weren't for folk's inability to manage themselves around alcohol, the police would see their workload cut by at least 80% - or so says our police Chief.

 

[Fryerpower]

In the states you can't have a concealed weapon in a bar much less be drinking and have one.

As of July 9th in Tennessee it is legal to carry in a bar as long as you are not drinking. (Assuming of course that you have a handgun permit.)

You did well. I hope to never be in that situation, but if I am I hope I can get out alive as well. Not having to wound or take another life is a bonus.

-Jim

 

[Ltp0wer]

As of July 9th in Tennessee it is legal to carry in a bar as long as you are not drinking. (Assuming of course that you have a handgun permit.)

You did well. I hope to never be in that situation, but if I am I hope I can get out alive as well. Not having to wound or take another life is a bonus.

-Jim

Starting the 30 of September, the same will be true in Arizona.
(Provided you have a CCW permit, of course)

 

[scotthsi]

Better hope that bar isn't posted "no weapons" in Arizona, even after Sep 30.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Sweet - the lesson is, if you aren't buddy-buddy with a bunch of local cops, you're screwed and they're likely to shoot you after an incident even if you did everything right - good lesson!

[I guess I'm screwed if anything goes down]

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Whatthepho?

If I were in you shoes, I would have shot that guy when he pulled out that ice pick and walked towards me. I wouldn't know if he was going to charge at me or throw it at me. Either way would have ended bad.

Whatthe, The fact that the fellow stopped in his tracks and never advanced another step once I drew on him allows me to believe I made the right call. While he continued to threaten and posture, he was standing tall and facing me squarely, so any sudden move like a transition into a pre-charge crouch or a throwing posture would have caused me to start shooting instantly.

While I know that I would have been vindicated if I had shot (and killed) him before the other guy tried to blindside me, my conscience in the aftermath would know that to that point, I had an excuse to shoot him more than real justification. An important distinction relative to my peace of mind. Once the attempted blindside occurred the situation was escalated and I would have shot him if the peacemaker had not intervened to save us both from a seriously life-altering event.

twofifty

True enough but in defence of basic humanity, let's remember that alcohol
de-humanizes those who abuse it. Some folk are Jeckyl and Hyde when boozed up, men and women alike.

If it weren't for folk's inability to manage themselves around alcohol, the police would see their workload cut by at least 80% - or so says our police Chief.

I agree, but sadly, what people say and do under the influence of alcohol is driven by a lowering of inhibitions and is thus a disturbing insight into their true nature that is reigned in by fear of consequences during times of sobriety. People who turn mean after a few drinks are inevitably harboring some troublesome issues.

If someone close to you apologizes the next day and blames alcohol after cussing you off and taking a swing at you; you can choose to forgive him, but remain very wary as those actions under the influence indicate a real but suppressed feeling of hostility towards you.

In vino veritas, unfortunately.

 

[Mp7]

....good job.. And try to find that Rasta... he deserves a beer.

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Sweet - the lesson is, if you aren't buddy-buddy with a bunch of local cops, you're screwed and they're likely to shoot you after an incident even if you did everything right - good lesson!

Lol! Dr Tad - The cops acted reasonably and professionally on the information they had at the time. Other than the holster thing, I was never in any real danger of being shot by them as long as I made no stupid moves or gave them reason to believe I posed an imminent danger to themselves or others. At least one man on the squad recognized me but they still kept me covered until the order was given to stand down. Dealing with the police is just another part of firearms education and training that happily contributed to a safe outcome that night.

 

[middleground]

Buzz,

That is a well written story that is truly scary. I could imagine myself in your shoes and felt myself tensing up.

As a mostly untrained civilian, it seems to me that apart from getting out of your car you handled things very well and with a very cool head.

Regarding your experiences with anger and adrenaline while thinking about the event once it had already passed. This sounds remarkably similar to my reaction to being mugged.

Even a couple of months after the incident, if I started thinking through how it played out I would get very tense, angry, and sort of a fight or flight feeling. Perhaps this is a somewhat normal reaction. Over time it seemed to pass, and now I can talk much more easily about it.

Thanks for sharing.

-mg

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Mp7

....good job.. And try to find that Rasta... he deserves a beer.

That he most certainly does, my friend...

Edit to add: middleground - the aftermath is a very real part of any serious incident and should always be considered if time permits when deciding how to act or how you would act in a given situation. I can only imagine what it would have been like if things had gone differently...

 

[First Big Foot]

Sounds like you used all the force necessary to get out of a dangerous situation.
Commendations offered.

 

[ArthurDent]

Just then another man - a Rasta ... addressed the guy by name and told him to stop being a fool - put the weapon down before he gets killed

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" - Jesus, in Matthew 5:9

May God Bless the Rasta.

 

[twofifty]

"In Vino Veritas" indeed.

 

[md7]

Tropical Buzz,

Glad that you came out of your situation okay. I think you did a good job with it and maintained composure.you certainly were justifiable in shooting but am glad that you were not forced to do that. I think I probably would have shot, but also hope that i never have to.

My wife and I visited St. Lucia several years back. We flew into the Intrernational air port and traveled inland to Castries and Soufreix. Very beatiful country. Rain forests, the Pitons, beaches. What part of the island are you from?

 

[Tropical Buzz]

ArthurDent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropical Buzz
Just then another man - a Rasta ... addressed the guy by name and told him to stop being a fool - put the weapon down before he gets killed
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" - Jesus, in Matthew 5:9

May God Bless the Rasta.

Arthur, I go through life guided by my conscience, which is in turn shaped by and founded upon Christian values. For various reasons I have shunned institutionalized religion, though I am not an aetheist.

Having established that, your post just now caused me to see that part of the incident in a completely different light.

A strange man in robes and long, matted hair, completely out of place in the crowd of young partygoers; seeming to know both me and my would-be assailant, stepping between a gun and a knife to abort a violent confrontation. Truthfully, though I was deliberately keenly aware of the people around me from beginning to end, I neither saw him before he intervened, nor do I consciously recall seeing him leave.

I am a practical man and I am not prone to attaching grandiose significance to things that happen in real life, so I know he was a man who did the right thing in the right place at the right time. However the profound symbolism of it all is not lost on me and since you posted, I am still experiencing a very real chill and a tingle up and down my spine!

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Glad that you came out of your situation okay. I think you did a good job with it and maintained composure.you certainly were justifiable in shooting but am glad that you were not forced to do that. I think I probably would have shot, but also hope that i never have to.

My wife and I visited St. Lucia several years back. We flew into the Intrernational air port and traveled inland to Castries and Soufreix. Very beatiful country. Rain forests, the Pitons, beaches. What part of the island are you from?

Thanks md7. The physical beauty of this island, particularly around the Pitons, still affects me after all these years. I live and work in the Cap Estate and Rodney Bay areas at the very northern end of the island.

 

[conw]

While we're speculating on the Rastafarian and throwing Latin around...

A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiː.əs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/, or day oos ayks mokinah [1] literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty. It is generally considered to be poor storytelling technique.

From Wiki

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Speak your mind clearly conwict. Are you suggesting the incident is a fabrication? Let me be very clear that the situation was not unsolvable. If the guy had not intervened, it would have been solved. Just in a less desirable way - that's all.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Wow. I'm glad you are o.k.. In CA, it is vitrually impossible to get a CCW in the county I live in (there is literally 5 in a county of 1 million). I carry pepper spray. I am a whole lot less concerned about pepper spraying someone.

If you could carry pepper spray along then you could just blast pepper spray at the inital drunk and his shank welding buddy. Assumes you have time and capacity to hold both which you may well not. Again, I wasn't in your shoes and in no way do I want to Monday morning QB what you did. I'd still draw as well. You did everything right.

20 years ago I was out with a good friend of mine. There was a group of us and I didn't know most of them. One of these folks who was a friend of a friend (think football player type). Got so drunk he thought he was home and ripped the screen door off and tried to open the front door of the house. All I could think was that he would get shot (justifyably so from the homeowner if he had actually gotten in the house). The guy wouldn't listen to any of us. Finally he followed us back to the car.

It scared the crap out of me. Drunk people do stupid things - especially those in their 20's. I try to stay far away from them.

 

[conw]

Certainly I'm not suggesting you lied Buzz...I have no reason to think that and it's against board policy, especially here on S&T, to make such accusations.

I just thought since you were discussing the guy as a pseudo-mythical/religious figure (i.e., the symbolism you mentioned), Deus Ex Machina applied in a loose sense. It was what came to mind when I first read the story and found it witty and somewhat applicable.

Heck, it's a good story, and I believe it. But that detail was totally unexpected, and probably happens what would you say? Once a generation? I doubt strangers to both parties intervene nonviolently and save the day in armed conflicts more often than that...

Anyway, no offense intended.

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Sheepdog, In my late teens, attending school in Canada, I sometimes ended up in similar scenarios - hanging out with extended groups of friends and friends of friends. When one dummy would do something stupid and get into an altercation with people outside the group; peer or group pressure would compel the rest of us to stand with him and "back each other up".

A couple of times I ended up in fights against people I personally had nothing against. The fights were always fistfights and seldom involved any type of weapon, save for the rare occasion when someone would pull out a baseball bat or a tire iron (that usually brought an end to the hostilities in short order).

That group-influenced behavior that I myself briefly fell into before I wisened up and opted out could very well be what has evolved into the escalated, weapon-oriented violence of today's young people. I wonder how many of the young people supporting the guy threatening me were doing so out of peer or gang loyalty as opposed to any real sense of hostility towards me.

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Conwict, no one ever suggested that the Rastafarian stepped down from heaven to save the day. Arthur's post prompted me to see a symbolic, quasi-religious parallel in details I had not previously noticed, and that produced a reaction. I've felt a similar tingle watching a giant leatherback turtle loom out of the sea to lay eggs on a moonlit beach. Maybe I'm just a sucker for "profound moments."

Rastafarians in robes are not exactly rare down here - thinking back, he just seemed way out of place among the other people in the crowd. Mainly, he was older than most of them, and could easily have been there to pick up one of his kids or a younger sibling - who knows?

The only "story telling techniques" here are an attempt at decent grammar, factual accuracy and openness about my feelings and reactions.

It's a small society down here and there's a good chance I will see him again. When that happens I will surely approach him to thank him and hopefully have a conversation.

 

[20nickels]

" The rasta told the guy he was wrong, they spoke for a second and he hugged him and said "Go home. Go home my boy."
See, the big tough guy with the knife just needed a hug! Sounds like you you really rattled him. Maybe he won't go around pulling knives on people anymore. Some good came out of this.

 

[Tropical Buzz]

Next time I'll leave the gun behind and just give the perp a big 'ol squeeze!

 

[shephard19]

Good job tropical Buzz! I would probably have freaked out and maybe have done something stupid once I realized someone was sneaking up behind me! After all you can't aim one gun in two directions at one time. It is however sad for me to hear that mainly only people in the upper crust of soceity are allowed to own firearms in your country. Great thread! Great story!