almost drew my gun yesterday

[rainbowbob]

...others may not see it the same way based on the evidence and testimony presented.

That's one risk. The other is that of sustaining injury or being killed in the confrontation itself.

Yes - those are the risks involved.

To kill or be killed - that is the question.

Deciding for yourself how you will respond when you believe your life and limbs are endangered - well in advance of any incident - is a must for anyone carrying a weapon.

There will be no time for a legal analysis based on applicable local and federal statutes.

I probably would have looked out before leaving the store, or gone back inside at the first indication of trouble, and called 911.

My impression from the OP's narrative is that by the time things were headed south, he was blocked from his car by the "uncle" and prevented from re-entering the store by the "nephew".

A rock and a hard place. Reasonable fear of bodily injury or death. He responded with step one in a continuum of force that could have reasonably concluded with the use of deadly force if the the two belligerents continued to advance and make threats.

That they did not is a testament to the effectiveness of the defensive gun use - in this case the mere showing of force - in the prevention of bloodshed.

 

[Pyzon]

i was mad about it at first but after thinking about it he could have made the situation worse by getting out and trying to help me

Excellent job, uspj, and for sure the preferred outcome.

BUT.....I have to agree with you and the others regarding the part your cousin played, or could have played.......

A hometown pal of mine (Dwight55) (that prefers to frequent TFL) has mentioned often that something a victim can do to likely help the situation, as it seems to be going downhill, and you are backing away hoping to avoid a bad situation, is to shout to anybody and everybody within hearing distance at the loudest volume possible "HELP......HELP....CALL THE POLICE.....CALL THE POLICE......HELP........HELP !!!!!"
and the point I am making is your cousin, assuming he had a cell phone could be dialing 911.

Other than that, good work, friend.

 

[Sniper X]

I had a very similar thing happen at a gas station but when the guy kept demanding money I asked "Do you want my gun and my badge too?" and just smiled, he said or sorry officer and walked away. I am not a leo and didn't state I was so though this was funny because it is a line form a old movie I saw called Running Scared. It worked as well in reality as it did in the movie! BTW these guys were two Vato like gang bangers who were drunk...

 

[mljdeckard]

(That's one of my favorite movies. "Hablo Smith and Wesson?")

 

[pacerdude]

I am glad that you and your cousin made it out of that situation safely. I am also glad that we are allowed to carry in a liquor store.

If you dont mind my asking uspj, what part of Georgia were you in, when you were confronted at the liquor store?

 

[ilikepancakes]

"An assault with fists does not justify use of a deadly weapon in self-defense unless the person being assaulted believes, and a reasonable person in the same or similar circumstances would also believe, that the assault is likely to inflict great bodily injury."

That's unfortunate. Whoever made this law must think an assault with fists is the same as sanctioned boxing matches with gloves and referees and two equal-sized guys who are ready to take some hits. There are several places you can be hit in the head that can permanently blind or kill you. Any serious assault is likely to inflict great injury.

 

[beatcop]

1- IIRC Mas advised folding a wad of flash money ($1's) and paper clip it....toss it in one direction and leave in the other. If you think this is a "waste", you are a fool.

2- The one punch kill happens....rarely. It falls under "possible, but not probable". You blast someone over a "fair" fight and you will have some big problems.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Rainbow bob said:

A reasonable person...

You must keep in mind that I am living in California - the land of kooks and freaks - the chances of having "reasonable" people on the jury that is deciding your fate, with a law written the way this law is written, is pretty worrisome.
The law specifically states that you cannot respond with deadly force if someone just wants to hit you with their fists - regardless of whatever else is stated in the law, the prosecutor is going to seize upon these words like a rabid pit bull and in all probability you will be chewed-up and spit out into the prison system.

Anyone who thinks that they will not be prosecuted for shooting an unarmed person in the State of California is loony.

Remember, we let OJ go free; how's that for "reasonable"?

 

[rainbowbob]

You must keep in mind that I am living in California - the land of kooks and freaks - the chances of having "reasonable" people on the jury that is deciding your fate, with a law written the way this law is written, is pretty worrisome.

Ya got me there...I feel for ya.



This is what I wrote in another thread on a similar topic:

Zoogster wrote: In reality even simple barehanded fists can result in a lot of damage rather fast between strong men. Permanently lost teeth, fractured jaws, broken noses, even caved in facial bones are not uncommon. And if it is an opponent that will kick or stomp on you when you are down there is no limit to the amount of damage that can be inflicted in mere seconds on the pavement.

Zoogster makes many good points about what a jury might think about using deadly force on an "unarmed" man. The most telling point, however, is quoted above.

In other words...there is no such thing as an "unarmed" man - other than an amputee (and I am NOT joking).

In light of the damage that could be inflicted by fists and boots, I have decided that I will NOT stand around for a beating, nor will I use my fists to resist or retaliate.

What I WILL do is de-escalate the situation or flee if at all possible.

If those options are not effective, I will use my firearm to stop the threat. That includes a continuum that begins with a firm grip on my weapon and a defensive stance and includes drawing and firing if the threat continues.

If such actions lead to a trial wherein a prosecutor claims there was no serious threat because the assailant was "unarmed" - I hope that my attorney will be allowed to introduce into evidence reports of the numerous recent, local incidents in which innocent victims have been permanently injured or killed by fists and boots.

However THAT turns out, I have already drawn the line for myself: I WILL include the use of deadly force as a last option to avoid being criminally assaulted.

 

[Combatcomm]

You handled it very well very good job. I have been there once and going to defense stance with one hand on the gun made them think again. You will get allot of I would of done this advice, but no one knows what they will do until they have it happen to them. You passed the real world thing and everyone went home that night. Well done my friend.

 

[duns]

The below can be found on page 27 of the following:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

"An assault with fists does not justify use of a deadly weapon in self-defense unless the person being assaulted believes, and a reasonable person in the same or similar circumstances would also believe, that the assault is likely to inflict great bodily injury."

Even though this is specific to CA, the same principle could be in the mind of any judge or juror in any state. This is a point that has troubled me greatly when thinking about scenarios of assault. Many assaults start with fists and end in serious injury or death. The basic problem is that you doesn't know until after it has landed whether a punch was going to seriously injure or kill you. I can't think of any answer but a subjective one. If I'm attacked by a drunk who can barely stand up I won't be drawing my gun. But if I'm attacked with fists by someone who looks as if they have the physique and coordination to do whatever they want to me, I will be pulling the gun. Inevitably, there is a gray area in between. Please note that I am talking here about a situation of unprovoked assault here. I am not talking about two people mano-a-mano (i.e. a fight between two willing combatants). I always take care not to cause anyone any offense and I'm not too proud to retreat if someone appears to irrationally become hostile.

 

[TEXMEX]

uspj, sounds like you were in the ghetto? If so, that's not a good place to stop for anything, especially if you aren't from there yourself.