I don't get sporterizing...

[6x6pinz]

I'm already happy with the config, why change it?

Then don't change it!! Not all are happy so we CHANGE IT, get over it. My rifle, My way.
I am guessing you have never seen an adjustable cheek rest or stock. Seems a lot of the new military rifles have these features, wonder why. Even the military has learned that there is no such thing as a fit-all firearm.

Any collector should be happy these rifles are being modified, it just makes a stock one more collectible.

 

[Axel Larson]

I don't like either sporterizing, I actually like the stock going all the to the end of the barrel I think it looks better and protects the barrel some. Also I like the authentic look of WWI and WWII firearms, each to their own but right now I have seen sporterized Lee Enfields going for 200 where ones that are in the original configuration are more like 500.

 

[451 Detonics]

esque ~ the stock work on your SKS is outstanding, it shows your love for firearms as well as your skills. A friend of mine has modded an SKS about as far as humanly possible. He changed the stock, the gas system, the caliber, the magazine system, the barrel...he created a 45 ACP carbine out of a SKS...he just didn't bother making it pretty.



Oddly I bet many of the purists have a modded 10/22 in their safe but decry modding older guns, sort of an oxymoron.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Oddly I bet many of the purists have a modded 10/22 in their safe but decry modding older guns, sort of an oxymoron.

I'll bet that a lot of these guys crying about improving rifles such as the Enfield and Mauser don't complain one iota about modifying a M16 which has fought a few wars now. So using THEIR way of thinking, it should NEVER be touched as it is an important piece of history that should be preserved! Doesn't matter than MILLIONS of them have been produced as were the Enfield , Mauser, Mosin, and so on and so on.

 

[usnmars]

I am about 50/50 when it comes to sporterizing. If the rifle has a chance of going back to original military configuration I try to keep it that way. If the rifle is trashed, then it becomes a project gun. I built the monster mosin from a mosin that I got at a gunshow for $20. The bore was shot out and half the stock was missing. This was so beat that I bought it knowing I was going to make a project gun out of it. About 3 years ago I got a yugo 24/47 at a gunshow for $40 because it looked like someone was going to do a full sporter on it and took the entire gun apart. The gun was a box of parts on a table. The barrel was removed from the receiver and every possible part that could come apart was taken apart. No numbers matched and I got a replacement stock from a guy at the next table over for $10. I put the gun back together and put a nice vintage weaver KV scope on it. I call it my pseudo sniper. I will NEVER bubba a gun that is worthy of going back to military configuration. Just the ones that have been abused in the past and have no otherwise hope. I would rather see them shoot again, than be parted out and put on gunbroker.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I would rather see them shoot again, than be parted out and put on gunbroker.

Then where would the rest of us get our project parts from? Being parted out and sold is a GREAT way (for some-one else)to get them shooting again! GB is where I get my stripped receivers for my sporter builds.

 

[35 Whelen]

I think the bottom line is, as someone has already said, is that sporterizing is a carry-over from from decades ago when it was much cheaper to buy a surplus military rifle and modify it into a hunting as oppossed to buying a bew hunting rifle. I've never understood someone wringing their hands and crying over 1 of 17,000,000 Mosins being sportered.

I think a valid comparison is hot-rodding cars. Used to no one thought a thing about hacking and modifying a '57 Chevy, or a '67 Mustang until the day finally came when the unmolsted examples were far fewer in number, and thus more valuable, then those that had been "hopped-up". The same has now happened with 1903/03A3 S'field's and even some Mausers.

35W

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Used to no one thought a thing about hacking and modifying a '57 Chevy, or a '67 Mustang until the day finally came when the unmolsted examples were far fewer in number, and thus more valuable, then those that had been "hopped-up". The same has now happened with 1903/03A3 S'field's and even some Mausers.

So true! If fact sporterizing is the driving force behind the increased value of un-modified examples guns and cars. Remember this VALUE is only in the minds of those willing to pay,not for what it (gun or car)is or what it does,only how badly some-one wants it.

 

[jwsracin]

i have mixxed feeling on the subject, i'm really a sentimental guy. i would give alot to have a good old (seen combat) 1903. but as far as say a mosin nagant, just do as i did - paid $100 for a good matching # and very new looking '43 izzy, and then bought a $60 refurb. the izzy is in the safe and the refurb is in progress. I have absolutly no guilt involved with the refurb, and the izzy is not a valuable gun either but i do see a day when it might be a little rare. Now my father did hand me down a Venuzalean Muaser, Large ring in 7x57mm that i love and it has been sportered some (mainly just the stock) and i see it as a project to finish. Like my choices or not, my dad always wanted this rifle for a light hunting rifle and that is what i'm going to make out of it.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

right now I have seen sporterized Lee Enfields going for 200 where ones that are in the original configuration are more like 500.

Just as a point of interest. Gunbroker currently has 5 pages of Enfields(206 pcs). Only 15 have been bid on. Most are under $100 as starting bids and going unbid. Compare the "buy it now" price versus what is actually being bid shows the wide gap between what some-one THINKS their mil-surp is worth and what it will actually sell for. The price tag on a used gun is what they WANT to sell it for and doesn't necessarily mean that is what they'll get for it. maybe they are reading the gun forums and pricing their guns accordingly.<http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx>

 

[dirtyjim]

Ignition Override:

If more sellers on GB had the "Buy Now" option, the bidding would not be necessary.
My solution was to select that option about two weeks ago for a Spanish FR8 on that website, in order to preserve it and shoot it.

i use the BIN option on about 1/3 or so of my buys. when i bid i'm usually looking for a deal and it wouldn't take much to outbid me but i don't seem to get much competition when i go after a rifle on gb.
you don't have to worry about me whacking a fr-8 in the head & gutting it out, the armory that built them messed them up worse than any bubba ever could.
i prefer open sight builds so the majority of rifles i bid on have nice crest and are not drilled and tapped. about the only thing that will stop me from building a sporter is extremely interesting wood.

here are a couple of my bubba jobs,
375H&H built on an oberndorf receiver, SMP bottom metal, necg sights & a prewar british style stock,built and rust blued by me..


220 swiftAI, built on a columbian fn action, vintage fajen beavertail stock and a weaver k6 with a litschert 12x booster. i still need to rust blue it, i was going for a 50's style target rifle on this one.


yugo captured mod98 low buck build. rust blued, custom shortened windage adjustable rear sight. under $300 in the entire build.

another one of my projects. dwm gew98 receiver, dst, octagon barrel in 6.5x55. extended upper tang. still need to make the rear square bridge, quarter rib and front sight ramp.

 

[HDCamel]

I'll bet that a lot of these guys crying about improving rifles such as the Enfield and Mauser don't complain one iota about modifying a M16 which has fought a few wars now. So using THEIR way of thinking, it should NEVER be touched as it is an important piece of history that should be preserved! Doesn't matter than MILLIONS of them have been produced as were the Enfield , Mauser, Mosin, and so on and so on.

Milsurp M16s? Tell me where I can buy one for less than the price of a new car.

I already said that I prefer old fashioned AR-15s anyway, but your comparison is inherently flawed. AR-15s are sold NEW with the ability to mod them easily without actually having to alter the rifle itself. You don't need to hack off the carry handle to mount a scope.

Also, you're still missing the point. I don't have a problem with sporters, per se, I just fail to understand the type of person who feels the need to do it.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't have a problem with sporters, per se, I just fail to understand the type of person who feels the need to do it.

If you still don't understand after 5 pages of post explaining it (with pictures) then I guess we need to call this one done.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

I just fail to understand the type of person who feels the need to do it.

Well then, keep your old milsurps in OEM condition. All of us will mod/bubba ours. In 50 years your can sell your OEM gun to someone who thinks like you do for a massive profit.

I really like the "hot rod" analogy BTW.

 

[HDCamel]

If you still don't understand after 5 pages of post explaining it (with pictures) then I guess we need to call this one done.

No one has explained anything. All people have really done is say "if you were in x situation then you'd do the same thing" except I HAVE been in x situation and always felt that the milsurp was adequate or better.
Either that or it's been people agreeing with what they falsly believe to be my claim (that sporters are abominations) or crying to let them do whatever they want with their gun.
I get why it made sense "back in the day," I really do... but why do it now? That's what I want to know.

Side note: If you think that an entire subculture of people can be understood with a mere 5 pages on a forum (with or without pictures) then you, my friend, are no anthropologist.

 

[HDCamel]

Well then, keep your old milsurps in OEM condition. All of us will mod/bubba ours. In 50 years your can sell your OEM gun to someone who thinks like you do for a massive profit.

I really like the "hot rod" analogy BTW.

Why would I sell something that I want to have? I'm a genuine collector, not an investor. Resale value doesn't even enter the equation.

 

[wjt]

Here's my "bubba job" Damn good shooter; My go to rifle when putting meat in the freezer. FWIW not all bubba's do hack jobs; some of us are pretty good at what we do

M96 6.5x55 Scout

Hey Enforcer,

Absolutely love your Swede. I need to find out about the scope mount. Who makes it?

I live in Canada, it can't be sent here but maybe I can find a Canadian dealer.

Thanks,

Walt

 

[lowerunit411]

Good God...i never saw so much word making over a matter of choice! If you want to keep it original...do it...if you want to sporterizer it, do that! Its not like theres a shortage of these things. Its a matter of taste. If i own it, ill damn sure do what the hell i please with it, and if you dont like it....too bad. yes it is "their" gun..... i reckon "they" can do what they damn well choose.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I get why it made sense "back in the day," I really do... but why do it now? That's what I want to know.

Good Lord let me go back through 5 pages and SHOW you the answer to your question that at LEAST 10 of us gave you. Bear with me it will take a few moments.

LoonWulf
Member


Join Date: July 3, 2010
Posts: 518
Im generally of the exact opposite opinion. Generally i dont find the extra length of stock or barrel to be overly pleasing. Generally ive also found that the ergonomics on military stocks dosnt work for me as well as sporter stocks.

As always there are some exceptions. Guns with 24" or shorter barrels and stocks longer then 13" are fine for anything i want to do, personal preference on Looks aside.

oh and military rifles, unless sniper versions, very rarely come with scope mounting. I dont see open sights well enough to be willing to hunt with them.

Thats a beautiful krag....

^^ Theres an absolutely lovely answer and it was the second response!

How many have you handled? I've lugged an SMLE up the mountain after deer... I'll take my 1903 sporter .270 every time over that.

And another

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
Member


Join Date: August 30, 2010
Posts: 1,187
I've sporterized several from .303brit #4 MarkII to K98 Mausers and have found them to not only be more appealing to the eye (most anyway) to MUCH more efficient in the hunting field. Reduced weight, more accuracy (bedded action and barrel) better handling and just over all a better rifle to take into the woods.

How many .303brit #4 MarkII's have you seen, in original configurations, that could produce 1 MOA at 250yds? I have 3 that can. K98 actions are one, or have been in the past, of the most popular actions to build custom rifles on.

And I third that, gorgeous Krag!

Pretty good one there if I do say so myself

Sporters are often lighter than the as-issued version and sometimes shorter. These changes make the rifle more convenient to carry.

The stock is often sized to fit the user, while military stocks are intentionally short.

The sporter's sights are often better for sporting purposes.

The trigger may be tuned up, or changed out for an aftermarket unit with a better pull.

The barrel may be replaced with a better one, or one for a different caliber that better serves the user's purposes.

For going after game, the sporterized Krag shown above is better than the issue rifle, I would say. I do not find it fugly, but very nice looking, though I have seen some abubbanations in that line, botched jobs on Krags, Springfields, Mausers, everything.

^^ Another perfectly written response that answers any possible question you should have.

I am not going to sit here and pull out every other one of about 20 or so that were answering your question.

The main thing here, in answering your question, we do it because we like the product better for OUR needs. I myself do it for not only a more functional and appealing rifle, but also something of an heirloom to pass down to my kids and Grandkids to admire and cherish as something that their Pappy or Grandpappy made with his own 2 hands. That in itself seems to be lost on todays generation of kids. Hard to "pass down" a PS3 video game of SOCOM 3.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What does sporterizing do?

1. It reduces weight -- a sporter stock is much lighter than a military stock.

2. It replaces bad sights -- and many military sights are absimal. The '03 Springfield, despite its expensive and elaborate sights was actually poorly sighted for either combat or hunting -- the battle sight (the one most often used) was set for 547 yards -- to shoot a man in the head at most ranges, you had to aim at his belt buckle. And it was too fine for use in dim light, woods, smoke and so on.

3. It turns a utilitarian rifle into (in some cases) a work of art.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Thought of something else here too, you were saying that, with today's rifles, that it is not economically sound to do this. Well I say this to that, BS !! With the quality of today's firearms in the crapper, you have to spend a good amount of money to get a new one to perform as well as one that I build. Albeit they are "acceptable" in the moderate terms of just hunting but they are nowhere NEAR the tolerances that I require out of one of my rifles. Unless you go the Surgeon, Lawton, Stiller Precision, or Farley actions. There you are looking at a minimum $500 just for the action alone!

Typically, I put around $500 to $700 total in an action, barrel, stock, and trigger and do all the fitting, sanding, indexing, milling, crowning, and finishing myself. Ending up with a tack driver for less than $800 (until I spring for optics for my blind rear). More often than not, they are much more appealing aesthetically and are a dream to carry in the woods. And the PLEASURE that I get out of doing it myself.

 

[HDCamel]

Hard to "pass down" a PS3 video game of SOCOM 3

Shows how much you know. SOCOM 3 is a PS2 game.

You're also ignoring some of my general responses and you're all taking this rather personally. I don't have a problem with you, but even with all those cookie-cutter responses I just don't see the point in turning a very good general purpose rifle (which is adequate for hunting) into an average hunting rifle (which is inadequate for anything else). It makes it less practical, not more.

I'm speaking as a former hunter. When I hunted, the rifle was always the least important part of the hunt. Why do you hunt? Do you do it to test your rifle or to test yourself? Bone stock milsurps were always good enough and, after all, a good craftsman never blames his tools.

 

[henrifirstman]

I got me a Mosin Nagant M 91/59 1943 Izhevsk
and I'd never gut the poor bastard like that.
IMO Old school mil surp rifles look alot better the way the are.
If I want to decorate my rifle with fancy crap, I'll get an AR.
;-) yay! Silly arguments.

 

[HDCamel]

Also, most of the pro-"sporterizing" arguments are actually pro-"customizing" arguments. The former I define as altering a rifle to make it more suited for hunting/sport, the latter as altering a rifle to make it more suited to the user.

 

[LoonWulf]

HD, here it is........We all like to come up with reasons for why we do it, but basically it comes down to one fact. WE WANT TO....oldest reason in history.

Exact same reason, you keep your stock.

At the end of the day does it fire a bullet? can you hit your target? can you still tell what type of rifle it started out as? Nothing has really changed besides our personal WANTs