I have a confession to make

[News Shooter]

I've been debating whether or not to post this, but decided to go ahead.

Last Saturday I was driving back home from dropping my son off in town. Nice day, no worries. Here in the Boston area we have these horrific traffic stopping devices called roundabouts.

Now, I drive like an old man because I am. I was in an unfamiliar suburb and was entering a roundabout pretty slowly when suddenly this car came screaming around in front of me, slammed on his brakes blocking my way. I can see the guy shaking his fist and making obscene gestures. I expect he thought I was invading his right of way or something.

Anyway, I just sat there are looked at him and I could see the car starting to shake as this guy was going nuts. I couldn't go anywhere because now there were cars behind me. Then the guy starts to get out of the car and I believe, but could not see clearly, that he had either a baseball bat or some other kind of object. He started around the back of his car, but by now the other cars were honking and he stopped, gave me the finger and got back into his car and roared off.

I have to tell you, I'm a big guy and didn't think I would scare easily, but a few seconds later I had to pull over I was shaking and hyperventilating so much. To think there are so many crazed people on the streets and that something like that could happen so quickly and out of the blue in a relatively nice area is really disturbing.

My confession is that I am very disappointed in my post-event stress reaction.

I will also tell you that even though I am licensed to carry, I do not and was not carrying at the time.

I have gone over this a hundred times in my head and I worry that not only I am some kind of a sniveling coward for my reaction, but that it is probably not a good idea for me at least to carry gun. Yes, I've had plenty of training, but this was way too close to the real thing for comfort. I have no idea what I might have done had he kept coming.

Should I go ahead and just check into a nursing home?

 

[Frandy]

Heck, I think you're fortunate in more ways than one. Obviously, it's good that he did you no harm! But, now you have an experience and your reaction to that experience.

Next time (and I hope there is no "next time"), you just might be better composed and therefore better able to take care of yourself because of this.

One man's opinion...

 

[Soap]

Fear/adrenaline dumps/disrupted breathing/etc. is completely normal regardless of what you hear on the Errornet. The only thing that can be controlled is how you manage these elements of a fight/scare/etc. I've found that the best way is to put myself in scary situations that are controlled. Practicing how to manage a dump of adrenaline is just as important as learning the mechanics of shooting/driving/etc.

 

[News Shooter]

Interesting

Actually, I was pretty calm during the incident. I did everything right. I didn't escalate, didn't crash into his car trying to get away. It only thirty seconds later that the panic symptons hit. How do you put yourself in these kinds of situations for practice???
Thanks

 

[Gannet]

I'd offer two comments, just from my perspective: always go armed, and report all such incidents to police.

You hate to think what would have happened if he had kept coming and you had been armed? I hate to think how your family and friends would feel with you dead, or beat to a pulp with disfiguring or crippling injuries. Think about how his next victim is going to feel - it might well be someone frailer than you. And there will be more victims. Nobody does something like that on a one-shot basis.

Arm yourself, with a weapon, a notebook, and a cellphone. Use each as required. No, I am not advocating vigilantism, nor looking for trouble. But the sad fact is that the world just isn't what it was when we were kids. It seems like there are a lot more violent nutcases running around, and the worst is they seem to do it with impunity, just like this guy. Why is that, you think? Maybe because us non-nutcases have let this stuff slide too long.

In this case it would have been wise to have a weapon ready, but thankfully unused, and then to use the notebook to take down his plate and vehicle description, and use the cellphone to report the reckless driver to 911. Of course all that is easy for me to say, in hindsight.

Thank God you are all right, and alive to ponder "what if".

 

[vasilia zheitseva]

no, my friend. you don't need to check in. those are the usual effects of an adrenalin rush. i've had them & so have many other folks. heck, i even got sick after one time. some heroine i turned out to be, eh? ( said with a wry grin - all 5 feet 11 inches of slavic goddess, bawling her eyes out like a three year old & throwing up like one, too, LOL )

however, sitting there without response does worry me. perhaps you need to get out and practice a martial art or boxing for a bit to get yourself used to people coming at you with ill intent. practice will alleviate some of the stress, but believe me, you will still shake & hyperventilate afterwards a bit. if you ever figure out what was up with the guy, write about it; you have piqued my curiosity. glad you were'nt hurt.

strange days we live in....

 

[News Shooter]

Additional information

I'm not trying to keep this going artifically, but I wanted to address a couple of things. With two barely functioning knees, I'm really not a candidate for martial arts training. Still, I'm 6 '2 and 220 so I'm not really intimidated. Had we been face to face on the street I could have handled the little pipsqueak.

I always carry a cell, but in this case his car was sideways to me and he roared off so quickly there was no way to get a plate. It was just another little green honda disappearing off into the millions of cars in Boston.

But this happened so quickly there was really no chance to react. I couldn't move the car and getting out would have aggravated the matter. Had he continued on and let's say he did have a bat I would have done whatever I had to do to defend myself.

The ironic thing is that just minutes before I had been lecturing my son on situational awareness while in the city.

Now, here is what else I have been thinking. Suppose I had been carrying and suppose he had attacked my car and I had decided to pull my gun, not necessarily use it, just pull it to make him stop.

Then sombody calls the cops and I get arrested for brandishing and lose my license, isn't that the way it happens?

 

[robert garner]

adrenaline dumps are NOT

Adreniline dumps are a far cry from cowardace!
We are all of us set up for Fight/Flight at the presence of danger.The Adreniline is there to Help your body cope with the huge drain of resources fighting/fleeing will demand.In this particular case,the danger appeared,was
recognized....and dismissed! No fight no flight the only muscle moving was your heart right? and it in a mode you were also not used to! I don't recall anything in your missive that would be catagorized as cowardly. You stated you were an old guy so you may recall Charles Atlas, if ever there is another "dump" left unused, try some isometrics,lifting or other physical activity,you may surprise yourself and not suffer the shakes. Seems you did well, just need to work on mindset,you will perform as you're trained, and if there is another incident, it may be your son you are defending .

 

[joab]

My confession is that I am very disappointed in my post-event stress reaction.

Actually, I was pretty calm during the incident

Actually pretty typical reaction for most

There are stories of combat hardened veterans breaking down a sobbing like babies after the fight is over

Adrenaline does really weird things to your mind.

I was jumped by three very irritated Vietnamese boys, after it was over with one in a cop car and two in an ambulance and me driving home I had a major panic/anxiety attack.

But throughout the incident and even filling out the police report I was calmer than I have ever been in my life

 

[joab]

Now, here is what else I have been thinking. Suppose I had been carrying and suppose he had attacked my car and I had decided to pull my gun, not necessarily use it, just pull it to make him stop.

Then sombody calls the cops and I get arrested for brandishing and lose my license, isn't that the way it happens?

No that's what happens when you drive off after the incident without reporting it to the police or better yet having them on the line when the incident is in full swing

 

[Polishrifleman]

There was another thread posted on the shakes after a potentially bad encounter. One of the common responses from members is great and that is that it is "natural", or "ok".

I generally see this machismo attitude from most of us "beat your chest" guys and I will throw myself in that group just because I am a don't mess with me guy. Until you are faced with a situation no matter what it is you won't know how your body and mind will react right after or days to come.

So good on you High Roaders to make it ok to be human and help fellow members deal with the stress, anxiety, morality, mortality, and general overall feelings.

 

[pax]

First, you are normal and your physiological response to an adrenalin dump is nothing to worry about. If you were shaking afterward, felt sick to your stomach or even threw up, hyperventilated, had a dry mouth, wet your pants when it happened, and couldn't sleep that night -- those are all normal physical responses to massive adrenalin dump. They aren't emotional or psychological in nature, merely physical. They don't mean you're crazy, they don't mean you're a coward, and in fact they don't mean anything except that you are a human being with certain hard-wired physical responses to stress.

Second, you could make yourself crazy with coulda-woulda-shoulda. You coulda-woulda-shoulda immediately locked your doors if they weren't already. You coulda-woulda-shoulda written down his licence plate number. You coulda-woulda-shoulda waved your cell phone at him, dialed 911 and read them the license number. You coulda-woulda-shoulda backed up, driven on the sidewalk, ran into him, drawn a gun, been as buff as Arnold Schartzenegger 'way back when ... Whatever. It is okay to try to figure out what you did wrong and what you could have done better (that's how we learn), but it isn't okay to obsess about it. Think about it until you've got a plan for if/when something similar happens again, and then drop it. It isn't worth worrying yourself into a heart attack over.

Third, you asked, "How do you put yourself in these kinds of situations for practice???" I'd recommend you get yourself some firearms training at a good school. The basic classes teach you how to use your gun, but the upper level classes often involve role play which can be quite intense and very, very instructive. You'll learn how to solve problems under stress and it is the best time and place to make tactical mistakes, because you'll learn from them. It gives your brain a blueprint for situations and makes it way less likely that you'll freeze when something unexpected happens.

Finally, try to hold onto the realization that you did survive this. Whatever coulda-woulda-shoulda you come up with, remember that this one is nothing more than a learning experience. The consequences could have been bad, but as it is, what you've got is a chance to learn something you didn't know before.

pax

 

[News Shooter]

This is great therapy

Thanks everyone...I'm feeling a lot better. Appreciate it!

 

[fish2xs]

This is a daily occurance...

News Shooter

First, welcome.

Second, I understand your concern over the pucker factor, but I would say this is a daily occurance for those of us in the People's Republic of MA. While you (and I) may be past our prime, there are many things you can use to your advantage if you maintain situational awareness. For starters, once this guy got out of his car, he put himself at a SERIOUS disadvantage. Even though you were blocked in, you were at the helm of a far more lethal machine than anything he apparently held in his hand (unless you were driving a Prius or something similar). Had he continued his threat instead of returning to his car, you still had many options open to you - assuming you were willing to spend some money at the body shop.

From what you wrote, you would have fully been in your rights to start performing some real 'defensive' driving. Even if you were carrying, there were other options before brandishing.

Now, if you had a 10 month old in your back seat as I did this morning when someone cut me off, then things may be different.

 

[Tokugawa]

There are a lot of nut jobs out there with serious issues just waiting (altho they don't realize it) to dump thier problem on some other party for some percieved disrespect.
You did fine. I always shake afterwards. I can remember having the literal knee-knocking experience.

 

[Soap]

Actually, I was pretty calm during the incident. I did everything right. I didn't escalate, didn't crash into his car trying to get away. It only thirty seconds later that the panic symptons hit. How do you put yourself in these kinds of situations for practice???
Thanks

That's great! Its okay to feel like you're made of rubber after a good scare. Ways you can practice managing it are any activity which could give you an adrenaline dump: skydiving, full contact fighting, racing on a track, stickfighting with little or no protective gear...all kinds of stuff you can do to scare yourself

 

[MikeIsaj]

Welcome to THR.

+1 to what everyone else said. Normal reaction.

 

[Sam]

Completely normal reaction sir. Not to worry.

Daddy told me this about violent interpersonal conflict when I went to the war:
When the $$#!T hits the fan, you can stand your ground, you can attack or you can run away.
Stand your ground is good enough
Attacking is usually better (not in your case)
Running away is bad.
Besides this there are two modifiers
You might wet yourself
and you might $#!T your britches

Even if you wet yourself and $#!T your britches, you'll be doing all right just as long as you don't run away, even if it does smell bad.

Sam

 

[Custard]

Arm yourself, with a weapon, a notebook, and a cellphone. Use each as required.

You forgot the camera. I disposable camera can be your best friend. Especially in car accidents.

I'm not sure I would let an aggressive person or LE person see the camera though. People can get really ticked off when they know you are documenting their behavior. A little discretion goes a long way.

Your reaction to stress is perfectly normal. I was in my share of life and death situations in the Coast Guard and I generally fell apart after a good one. My favorite was when I felt perfectly normal but my teeth would chatter like I was freezing. That was actually funny. Frustrating but funny. Shakes and weeping were perfectly normal for me.

I totally agree with the comments about macho people and their inability to handle themselves in a crisis. I found that there was a nearly direct inverse ratio between the machoness in the rec room and competence in the surf. My frustration with the macho is the origin of my screen name. I chose it after "Custard" from Ogden Nash's Custard the Dragon . Custard acted like a coward and seemed OK with himself but when attacked by a pirate "Custard gobbled him, every bit." That is the attitude that I aspire to.

Good job not escalating. Takes a real man to back down from a confrontation.

Dan

 

[News Shooter]

Thank you again

For the input, advice and guidance. I feel a lot better. Again, in retrospect I believe we just have to be prepared 24/7 for anything. I was enjoying a nice day driving home and conflict was the last thing on my mind. It's a sad state of affairs, but apparently an unavoidable one, that we have to be on guard for these psychos no matter where we are. This discussion has helped me focus and I appreciate everyone's input

 

[Working Man]

First off I would like to say that I respect the fact that you posted your
encounter. Real life situations are events that we all can learn from.

Second, and I say this as someone working on a Biotech/MedTech degree
and with going through a 12 week Phlebotomy course studying all the fun
things your body likes to naturally dump into you bloodstream....

Your reaction was completely normal, it is a natural after effect. You are by
no means a coward for your body feeling that way. In fact I would venture
to say quite the opposite by posting this thread.

The body has a wonderful memory, it you do ever (and I hope not) find
yourself in another situation your body's reaction should be rather reduced.

But always be prepared.... and welcome to THR.

 

[AJ Dual]

+1 to everyone who pointed out that those were normal "adrenaline dump" symptoms. It's the exact opposite of cowardice, the shakes are biochemical proof you were geared up to do what your hindbrain was telling your body what it believed you had to be doing in the next few seconds. When the guy left, the adrenalin/sugar combination had to work itself out, hence shakes, queasiness etc.

The only thing I could add was that you were both sitting inside 2000+ pound weapons. He was dumb enough to let go of the controls and get out of his, while you were still in yours. One way to look at it is you had more foot-pounds at your disposal than a .500 magnum. Unless he was driving a Hummer, and you drive a tiny econo-box, even "zero manuvering room" isn't really "zero". One car can push another, especialy if there's no driver in the other car to throw it in reverse and push back.

If he was in the way of your "escape", too bad.

Cars: Hard and crunchy.
People: Soft and squishy.

It's certainly a matter for last resort to use your car in that way, but then again, so are our guns.

 

[PlasticPistolPacker]

I haven't read all the posts, but here's my .02 cents. So many people are affraid to use deadly force when it's necessary because of legal problems after. If some guy comes towards my car with a baseball bat and there is no way I can get out of there, I'm on the phone with the cops. He hits my car with a bat? Sure, I'll stay there and way for the popo. If I had a son (thank god I don't at 19) and that guy tried to get inside me car and harm me or him with a baseball bat...BANG, BANG....BANG. PERIOD. Criminals (and people in general for that matter) need to stop treating eachother like enemies. I sound like some roaring hippie, but no one has respect for eachother anymore. If people want to continue to act in this manner they need to realize how serious the consequences can be and that there is a large community of legal CCW holders. Don't worry, everyone shakes or gets that weird feeling when confronted by something like this. Ever been in a fist fight back in grade school/ highschool?

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Yup, the adrenaline effects are totally normal.

There are lots of places to read up on the effects, but if you like, I've just written a chapter in my firearms instructor curriculum about them.

If you'd like a look-see, PM me with your email address.

 

[Sewerman]

It was exactly such an incident in atlanta traffic that made me move a .38 special to my console from my gun cabinet. except the man in question actually pointed a gun at me before getting back in his car and driving off. all i could think was ive just brought a pocket knife to a gun fight.... and aint got no where to go.