I have a problem (small kids & guns)
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White Horseradish
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My boys are three and six. They both know not to touch ANYTHING that is not theirs without permission. And they know full well that if they do otherwise they will be punished one way or another. They even ask each other permission to take a toy.
As far as guns in particular, they both have been allowed to see them if they asked. They've seen me clean them. I try to show them that there is nothing mystical about guns, but that they do need special handling.
They each have a toy AR. They know thay can play with them whenever they want, but they are not allowed to leave them laying about like other toys. Once they are done, guns go back to "the armory". They also know that if they do something unsafe, like hit someone or point it at a person not in the game, the game ends and the guns get put away for the rest of the day.
The worst gun-related accident we've had so far was a couple of years ago when one of them found the bottle of Rem oil I forgot on the table. Man, was that ever a mess...
As far as guns in particular, they both have been allowed to see them if they asked. They've seen me clean them. I try to show them that there is nothing mystical about guns, but that they do need special handling.
They each have a toy AR. They know thay can play with them whenever they want, but they are not allowed to leave them laying about like other toys. Once they are done, guns go back to "the armory". They also know that if they do something unsafe, like hit someone or point it at a person not in the game, the game ends and the guns get put away for the rest of the day.
The worst gun-related accident we've had so far was a couple of years ago when one of them found the bottle of Rem oil I forgot on the table. Man, was that ever a mess...
JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
Member
What stevelyn said. What Pax said. And what El Tejon said.
I have two boys. 11 and 13. My 13yr old got his first deer this season. Both are pretty good rifle shots. (.22, .243, & 30-30) Strength will improve their pistol shooting. I still don't even let the boys clean the guns. I do it in the gun room with door shut. Once in a while one or the other will come down to have a look-see. I teach at that point. When they have been able to show discipline and interest. One step at a time. You can start early, but not at 3yr's old. Both boys have watched me reload ammunition. They've learned the process, but never gone there on their own. They know better.
At the 3yr old stage it's "No. Don't touch. And discipline." Once discipline is attained, then you can move forward with the rest. Don't expect that to be earlier than 5yrs old. Every kid is different. Some understand the dangers long before others. It's been researched that many 7yr old children don't have capacity to comprehend "death". Until a kid can understand the consequences of anything dangerous then it's still prudent to keep them away from the danger.
Love my boys. But there were a lot of years when I just had to say no. And now, even as I'm confident in their discipline, I still keep watchful eye on them when they're at the range or in the woods with me. Not just for other people's safety, but their's too.
-Steve
I have two boys. 11 and 13. My 13yr old got his first deer this season. Both are pretty good rifle shots. (.22, .243, & 30-30) Strength will improve their pistol shooting. I still don't even let the boys clean the guns. I do it in the gun room with door shut. Once in a while one or the other will come down to have a look-see. I teach at that point. When they have been able to show discipline and interest. One step at a time. You can start early, but not at 3yr's old. Both boys have watched me reload ammunition. They've learned the process, but never gone there on their own. They know better.
At the 3yr old stage it's "No. Don't touch. And discipline." Once discipline is attained, then you can move forward with the rest. Don't expect that to be earlier than 5yrs old. Every kid is different. Some understand the dangers long before others. It's been researched that many 7yr old children don't have capacity to comprehend "death". Until a kid can understand the consequences of anything dangerous then it's still prudent to keep them away from the danger.
Love my boys. But there were a lot of years when I just had to say no. And now, even as I'm confident in their discipline, I still keep watchful eye on them when they're at the range or in the woods with me. Not just for other people's safety, but their's too.
-Steve
Spiggy
Member
I learned a bit early- age of 5 ::Flashback!::
I see my brother's Beretta M9 sitting on the desk
, freshly cleaned and set to dry... Soooh, I figure "Toy!" and wandered in total silence
... picked up the gun *uh-oh!* The slide released and WHACK!
took out a peice of my hand. ::end flashback::
Well, till this day, I still have an odd fear for M9's
I say best we teach the kids "no touchie" for now
I see my brother's Beretta M9 sitting on the desk
, freshly cleaned and set to dry... Soooh, I figure "Toy!" and wandered in total silence ... picked up the gun *uh-oh!* The slide released and WHACK! took out a peice of my hand. ::end flashback::Well, till this day, I still have an odd fear for M9's
I say best we teach the kids "no touchie" for now
Smoke Rizen
Member
My guns are all locked up in a safe,well maybe not all,but when my children were young I preferred to spend any spare money on guns. My guns were always in the corner of my closet and were never touched by my children. It all goes back to the respect(or fear) you instill in them. They knew they were forbidden to touch and they obeyed. They are now 33 and 30 years old and have told me they never did. I thought, how could I be sure? After both of them fessed-up to cheating at "Battle Ship"!
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
pax,
Kudos for an outstanding post. Your sons are lucky to have a mom as perceptive as you.
lpl/nc
Kudos for an outstanding post. Your sons are lucky to have a mom as perceptive as you.
lpl/nc
cracked butt
Member
Normal 3 Y.O.. I have one of the same age. Part of it is that Daddy (or mommy) is the one who they look up to and if you find an object interesting, they want to know why and see for themselves.
I bought a toy rifle for my son a year ago, along with it came some rules:
1. never point it any anyone.
2. Always put it away when done.
He has been just about perfect so far with the first rule, but I have to remind him of the second rule once in awhile especially after the novelty wore off.
I went to a gunshop yesterday that had a room full of open racks full of rifles and shotguns, he asked if he could see the rifles, I said "No, no touch" and there wasn't a problem after that.
PAX, that was a great piece you wrote! That is basically how we are handling our 3 kids, two of whom are old enough to know what guns are. OUr oldest, at almost 4, is learning 'her' version of the EE safety rules. When asked, she says 'Don't touch the trigger!".
Zundfolge
Member
thumbtack said:
When I was a little guy if I got to blow up a watermelon with a gun I'd have thought that was the absolute coolest thing ever! I don't see him being freaked out and developing any unhealthy fears (but I don't know the kid so maybe I'm off base).
My suggestion: Eddie Eagle comic books and a good gun safe (get a gunvault or something similar for your bedside gun).
HankB
Member
Aside from his understandable fascination with guns, I'd say Junior needs to be taught how to behave in public - sooner rather than later.
I was around 4 when I got my first BB gun - I wasn't strong enough to cock it myself, and I had to tuck the stock under my armpit - if I placed the butt against my shoulder, I couldn't reach the trigger. But my Dad used that BB gun to teach me the basics of sight picture, trigger control, and - most important! - safety. (I didn't realize I was being taught - I just enjoyed doing something with my Dad.)
I had lots of toy guns as a kid, but I knew the difference between what was for play and what was for real, and never did I confuse the two.
entropy
Member
WH's methods have worked well; his sons are very well behaved around firearms. (And in general, too.) I have not allowed my sons to have toy guns, except for squirt guns that are very obviously not a firearm. Each one has "his" real pistol, rifle, and shotgun. They have been taught basic maintenance of them, and get to fire them when we go to the range, as well as any other of mine they are willing to try. They have been taught not to touch any firearm or part with out permission( I do some work from home, plus have some parts for mine, as well as a project gun or two about), and are very good about it. At three the rule for them was do not touch without Daddy right there and his permission. My younger one violated it once, and shot out a window on my truck with a BB gun. He won't make that mistake again. Ironically I did not have to physically punish him, he worked himself over pretty good worrying about what I'd do to him. We did go over the four rules, which ones he broke, and the result. At seven, (He was five when he did this) he is much safer, and will not touch a gun until told to. He does still have the habit of going to the neighbors and playing guns with their toy guns. He will not point one at the other kids, although I wish I could say the same for the other kids!:banghead: One of them had a snubbie cap gun in his pocket, and pulled it out and swept me and both my sons with it. (He was going to show it to my boys.) I was halfway towards him (about a 6' distance) before it registered in my mind it was a toy, with a red plug. He's lucky I didn't tackle him right off. I did take it from him, and after a lecture on safety, gave it back to him on the condition that it not come in my house again. (He was afraid to himself for a while.. )
Ironically I did not have to physically punish him, he worked himself over pretty good worrying about what I'd do to him. We did go over the four rules, which ones he broke, and the result. At seven, (He was five when he did this) he is much safer, and will not touch a gun until told to. He does still have the habit of going to the neighbors and playing guns with their toy guns. He will not point one at the other kids, although I wish I could say the same for the other kids!:banghead: One of them had a snubbie cap gun in his pocket, and pulled it out and swept me and both my sons with it. (He was going to show it to my boys.) I was halfway towards him (about a 6' distance) before it registered in my mind it was a toy, with a red plug. He's lucky I didn't tackle him right off. I did take it from him, and after a lecture on safety, gave it back to him on the condition that it not come in my house again. (He was afraid to himself for a while.. )Attachments
atk
Member
That post by Pax is excellent. Is there any "best posts of THR" that this could be placed in?
losangeles
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Three is too old to shoot. Giving him exposure to responsible handling is a good thing, and some toys are always great to have.
I have twin daughters, aged 2 yrs, 9 months.
My pistols are always in a safe unless they are on my person.
My daughters know that only "Abba" (Hebrew for daddy) touches the pistol.
Actually, we use the Hebrew word for pistol (ekdach), so they won't out me in public.
They know that it is very dangerous, will make a loud noise, and could hurt them. They know it will not hurt them if Abba has it.
The other day, I heard one of them say to the other "No big monster can hurt us cause Abba has the ekdach". (I never taught them that, nor did my wife. And the only monster they know is Elmo--)
I'll tell you, I was very happy to hear that. In a few years, I will begin to teach them about guns.
btw, I really liked Pax's post.
My pistols are always in a safe unless they are on my person.
My daughters know that only "Abba" (Hebrew for daddy) touches the pistol.
Actually, we use the Hebrew word for pistol (ekdach), so they won't out me in public.
They know that it is very dangerous, will make a loud noise, and could hurt them. They know it will not hurt them if Abba has it.
The other day, I heard one of them say to the other "No big monster can hurt us cause Abba has the ekdach". (I never taught them that, nor did my wife. And the only monster they know is Elmo--)
I'll tell you, I was very happy to hear that. In a few years, I will begin to teach them about guns.
btw, I really liked Pax's post.
Good for you. I have known several gun owners over the years that routinely leave firearms where their young children can get at them. They tell me that their kids "know better" and wouldn't touch them.
I always wonder what they were like as kids. I was a pretty good kid, but there are still things that I did that I am glad my parents never found out.
Foolish. It's every bit as foolish to rely on the kids obeying when you're not around, as it is to rely upon yourself and all your friends (and all their friends) to never, never, never leave a firearm anywhere where a kid might get to it. You need both.
You cannot guarantee that your kids will never have a chance to handle a firearm they find lying around somewhere. That's why you need to teach them what to do if...
Nor can you guarantee that your kids will always obey you when you aren't right there to enforce it. That's why you need to keep your guns locked up where they aren't tempted.
Both child people and adult people make mistakes. Plan for it.
pax
Balog
Member
+1 for pax and El T. I wish my parents had been more like that.
Powderman: was your son with 3/4? I've met a lot of 3/4 guys who were in the cleansing of Fallujah, and one of them is in my platoon as we speak. Who knows, maybe he knows your boy? Feel free to PM if you don't wanna discuss it on an open forum.
Powderman: was your son with 3/4? I've met a lot of 3/4 guys who were in the cleansing of Fallujah, and one of them is in my platoon as we speak. Who knows, maybe he knows your boy? Feel free to PM if you don't wanna discuss it on an open forum.
solareclipse
Member
You are asking for trouble with toddlers. Period. I don't care what who blah blah. It's a baby, has no comprehension and no mechanical skill to handle anything besides a pacifier.
here's how i see it.
I've seen a lot of 3 year olds who yell and scream and demand something when mom and dad are at the mall, be it a toy, icecream, or even stuff that I have no idea why a little kid would want (a power drill? a carry all caddy for a car? here i think it was the kid wanting attention etc)
Now, when a kid is screaming and reaching and all he is reaching for is ice cream, that is a disibline problem. Personally, it was unacceptable behavior when i was a tike, and i see it as unacceptable from anklebiters in my care.
However, screaming and reaching for a gun, especially a LEO's, your kid his putting his life in danger. This needs to be dealt with immediately and extremely, and yes, this may involve the kid crying a lot. A 3 year old reaching for a real gun should illcit the same reaction as a 3 year old about to push a fork into a wall outlet or about to take a drink from a bottle he pulled out from under the sink.
I've seen a lot of 3 year olds who yell and scream and demand something when mom and dad are at the mall, be it a toy, icecream, or even stuff that I have no idea why a little kid would want (a power drill? a carry all caddy for a car? here i think it was the kid wanting attention etc)
Now, when a kid is screaming and reaching and all he is reaching for is ice cream, that is a disibline problem. Personally, it was unacceptable behavior when i was a tike, and i see it as unacceptable from anklebiters in my care.
However, screaming and reaching for a gun, especially a LEO's, your kid his putting his life in danger. This needs to be dealt with immediately and extremely, and yes, this may involve the kid crying a lot. A 3 year old reaching for a real gun should illcit the same reaction as a 3 year old about to push a fork into a wall outlet or about to take a drink from a bottle he pulled out from under the sink.
Powderman
Member
Balog said:
Was assigned to 1/12 Marines (Artillery), attached out to 1/3 Marines--but he DID say that he worked with other units. PM incoming.
Balog
Member
Good old field arty. Them, tankers, track rats, and engineers are the only pogues grunts show any love for. Well, we like CAS too but the pilots are all officers so we can't really hang with 'em.
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