I have begun to notice a disturbing trend

[gc70]

He then asked, "Well what if I WANT to register it, how do I do that?".

You should have told him to send in the warranty card if he wanted to, but that it was not really necessary.

 

[sernv99]

there is a "registration".....if the gun is documented as being sold to you by a FFL, there is a paper trail that will lead to you. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you bought a gun from a FFL dealer and later on it is stolen and used in a crime and recovered by LE, sooner or later LE will be knocking on your door. Geez, how did Barney Fife know I was the owner of that stolen gun? For me, that's "registration". My name is "associated" with that firearm until I sell it through a FFL transfer and then someone else gets the pleasure of being the last name associated with the firearm's serial number.

When I sell a firearm in state, I always have the buyer go through a dealer transfer. I want my name "out of the books", e.g. not associated with the serial number. If the buyer ends up having the gun I sold to him (FTF) stolen and it is used in a crime and recovered, guess who pays me a visit after following the paper trail? Barney Fife!! I am going to have to waste my time telling Barney Fife that I legally sold the gun FTF and here is my bill of sale, blah blah...no thanks....I don't have time to deal with LE involving someone else's problem.

 

[Avenger29]

I've noticed this from a lot of uninformed people. Older people (like in their 70s and 80s) tend to think guns are supposed to be registered for some reason (I don't know why) and younger people think it to (but I think that's exposure to TV shows that usually portray firearms as being registered)

 

[orionengnr]

"Well what if I WANT to register it, how do I do that?".

Move to CA, IL, MD, etc...

 

[Arkansas Paul]

^ That's good stuff.

 

[Trent]

tWhen I sell a firearm in state, I always have the buyer go through a dealer transfer. I want my name "out of the books", e.g. not associated with the serial number. If the buyer ends up having the gun I sold to him (FTF) stolen and it is used in a crime and recovered, guess who pays me a visit after following the paper trail? Barney Fife!! I am going to have to waste my time telling Barney Fife that I legally sold the gun FTF and here is my bill of sale, blah blah...no thanks....I don't have time to deal with LE involving someone else's problem.

You'll still get a knock on your door.

ATF starts at the manufacturer's books, then heads to the distributor, which leads to the original FFL, which leads to YOU, which (by your records) leads to another FFL, which then leads to the next purchaser, and so on.

There's no mechanism in place for them to "skip" you because the FFL you sell it to retains possession of the books and 4473 until they close their doors for good. The ATF is never notified of the next sale.

What you DO gain by going through an FFL is valuable indeed though - as you gain some insulation against civil suits brought forth by an offended party, if the weapon is ever used in a crime.

 

[metalman8600]

What about when you buy a used gun from a pawn shop or gun store? It's not the gun's first FFL. So how to they get from the manufacturer to the used gun sold at an FFL? Does the person selling the gun to the FFL have to keep a receipt?

 

[toivo]

I believe in the great corrupt state of NY the closest thing to "registering" a gun is having a pistol listed on our ccw permit.

Take it from another New Yorker: That's registration. That pistol is not only listed on your CCW, it's listed in a database in Albany by make, model, caliber, and serial number. Also, if you purchased it new in the past few years, there's a fired case from your pistol in a little plastic envelope in a drawer in a state police lab somewhere.

The good news is that the five-year renewal bill didn't pass the legislature, so your New York CCW is still good for life. It gives me pleasure to know how much that irritates some downstate Democrats.

 

[chieftain]

until I sell it through a FFL transfer

There is no requirement to sell through a FFL, in a Free State.

The record of a gun sale when a FFL is used is kept, on paper, with the FFL. The ATF has no record of that gun being sold to any one. They must be able to locate the FFL that sold the gun, originally.

ATF goes to the manufacturer, then asks which dealer or distributor that Serial # went to. Then they must go to the dealer, if still in business and request/demand his copy of the transaction.

If the original owner sold it, there is no required paper work for a non-FFL to maintain or keep, the ATF unless lucky will stop there. If sold through a FFL, that FFL will have a record, but otherwise it's in the wind, with no legal ramifications to prior owners and sellers/buyers.

I will say if that firearm should happen to hurt someone close to you, it may not be that simple though. That would be a very strong circumstantial case, if other elements of a crime were involved.

Don't get lost in the minutia of this stuff though.

Be advised that much of this is about what jurisdiction you live in. If you HAVE TO KNOW, pay for an hour of an Attorney's time, go in with your questions written down, you will not remember them all if you don't, and find out if your state or local laws are more restrictive than in a Free State. Don't rely on the internet for information that could cost you a lot of money, your rights, and your freedom.

Good luck.

Fred

 

[ironhead7544]

Most guns that get used in crimes are not traced. Why? Because its not necessary. The gun only gets traced if it is used in evidence. This is not commonly known but something like 98% of gun charges get plea bargained down. If its not needed for a trial it just gets destroyed. Thats why most stolen guns are not returned. Its a lot less work and cost to the budget to just destroy the gun than look up the owner, contact him/her, go through a lot of calls and paperwork. You could spend a lot of time and never find the owner. This is not true in all areas but in general. The reality is that the police dont have a lot of time to track down a gun you bought from a dealer, sold to a guy who moved out of stated and then died.

 

[xcgates]

I got stationed at Lackland, TX, from NY. When I bought my pistol, the sales guy had a grand old time "breaking" me of my NY assumptions.

He sure did make sure to correct me on a few preconceptions, and as I recall, his last words were something along the lines of "Welcome to America!"

 

[Balrog]

What you DO gain by going through an FFL is valuable indeed though - as you gain some insulation against civil suits brought forth by an offended party, if the weapon is ever used in a crime.

Has anyone ever heard of a case where that happened?

 

[22-rimfire]

Civil lawsuits with firearms generally go after deep pockets which typically means companies instead of individuals. If you sell or transfer a firearm correctly, you have nothing to concern yourself with in terms of civil liablity. My Dad was one to want to go through a FFL dealer if he sold a gun in his later years as he started to think his pockets were getting a lot deeper than many. Those pockets did not affect me one way or the other as all his children got ZERO when he died. His spouse from his second marriage took it all. We just love her now.

 

[ArmedLiberal]

Civil lawsuits with firearms generally go after deep pockets which typically means companies instead of individuals. If you sell or transfer a firearm correctly, you have nothing to concern yourself with in terms of civil liablity. My Dad was one to want to go through a FFL dealer if he sold a gun in his later years as he started to think his pockets were getting a lot deeper than many. Those pockets did not affect me one way or the other as all his children got ZERO when he died. His spouse from his second marriage took it all. We just love her now.

There's a lot to be said for careful financial planning and family trusts.

 

[Sniderman]

"I can completely understand why people that are selling a firearm would want something in writing saying their firearm is no longer in their possession."

Yep, It's called a "Bill of Sale". For your protection and peace of mind Get the buyer to sign one, Keep it on file along with any other major sale-purchase reciepts.

______________________________

Welcome to the Republic of Vermont, Get off my Lawn!

 

[texas bulldog]

As the "gun guy" at my job, people occasionally ask me, either out of curiosity or because they're actually thinking about it, what someone has to do to buy/own a gun. They are often surprised when I tell them they could walk a couple blocks down to McBride's and walk out with a gun in under 15 minutes. They all seem to think there's registration and/or waiting periods. I use it as an opportunity to educate and try not to get annoyed by the general misinformation out there in the world.

 

[ljnowell]

Move to CA, IL, MD, etc...

There is no IL gun registration. It was a good attempt at taking a shot, but you missed.

 

[Deanimator]

You'll still get a knock on your door.

Not likely.

I actually have personal experience.

When I was stationed at Ft. Knox, I bought a Colt Official Police from one licensed gun dealer in Cosmosdale, KY and then some time later traded it to another in Elizabethtown, KY.

Years later, after leaving the Army, I was living in Berea, OH. I got a letter via the Army Locator Service from the gun dealer to whom I'd traded the Colt. The [then] BATF had contacted him about the gun. It had apparently been stolen in California around ten years earlier. I believe it was recovered and a trace was done on it, and it led back to the gun store. They wanted to know where I'd gotten it. I told them the name of the other gun store where I'd bought it on a 4473, they passed that information on to the BATF and that was the end of the matter.

What MORE could the BATF have wanted to know, what color shirt the dealer was wearing when he sold me the gun? I wouldn't have talked to them without a lawyer in the room anyway.

 

[gatopardo]

Every time

Every time I purchase a firearm, the clerk call the authorities, state my info and the firearms info, before the final sale.

After all these years, I guess I'm being candid by asking this question, but is this not a form of registration? Not just a background check?

 

[xcgates]

walk a couple blocks down to McBride's and walk out with a gun in under 15 minutes.

Okay, I just HAVE to call bull on that. I have an iron-strong will, and I don't think I have EVER managed to spend less than 30 minutes in a store with guns. You are spreading a myth, my friend.

 

[milq]

There is no IL gun registration. It was a good attempt at taking a shot, but you missed.

Nope, they couldn't figure how to register our guns, so they register us as owners. If it weren't for having a child here, I would never have returned.

 

[rocky1]

It's all going to a national database somewhere gentleman... It was just reported last week that a gun dealer in Jacksonville, FL made the top 10 nationally for guns used in crimes traced back to point of sale. http://www.news4jax.com/news/26132949/detail.html

Jacksonville PD said they are very proactive in tracing weapons they confiscate in crimes, and that the business in question sells a large volume of weapons. There was no suggestion of improper sales or criminal activity involved, it's simply the number of sales they make, coupled with the number of traces performed by JPD.

Regardless... it substantiates the data is databased by the federal government somewhere, contrary to what some suggest here.

 

[rocky1]

Every time I purchase a firearm, the clerk call the authorities, state my info and the firearms info, before the final sale.

After all these years, I guess I'm being candid by asking this question, but is this not a form of registration? Not just a background check?

If you'll get your Concealed Carry Permit, you don't have to have the background check. There's a spot on the form for permit number when you purchase, no more waiting period, no more phone calls. Just jump through their hoops and register as a "Gun Owner" so they can come knock on your door first.

 

[ljnowell]

Nope, they couldn't figure how to register our guns, so they register us as owners. If it weren't for having a child here, I would never have returned.

Yep, they sure did. Definately not the same thing though.

If it werent for family I would have already left too. Looks like I may get my chance in the next year or two though.

 

[goon]

Personally, when I sell a gun I make sure it goes through an FFL.
The law in my state requires it for handguns but not for long guns. Doesn't matter to me - I still have a long gun sold through a dealer with a 4473 filled out and a background check run.
If there were a way for me as a private citizen to just take the buyer's driver's license or CCW permit and somehow do a background my check, that would be good enough for me. But I'm not aware of any way to do this. Until such a system is available, I'm not putting myself on the line for what the next guy might decide to do with that gun.