I have this to say about gun control..

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America is most deeply rooted into the right to keep and bear arms with a stronger passion than any other nation on earth.

Gun control is not, nor cannot be the actual taking of firearms, which has happened numerous times in history, as such with Germany banning firearm ownership in 1919.

As with a nation such deeply rooted in gun ownership, such a despicable act on a national level would cause a mass amount of outcry, and could plunge is into civil war within hours.

Gun control is merely the control of certain aspects of the firearms themselves, such as limitations on the sizes of magazines, suppressors, and other accessories, the size of the caliber, etc.

When you slowly eat away at these tiny, individual freedoms, it does not raise as much concern. A person would notice a tsunami much easier than a tide rolling in.

When people go as far as to dissect the meaning of the 2nd amendment, and impose certain regulations pertaining to firearms, one most question the ulterior motive of their actions.

When a lunatic with clear mental issues goes out and shoots up a school or a movie theater, people have the audacity to think that their actions represents the actions of a normal, intelligent gun owner, and even our own government acts accordingly by limiting the amount of ammunition one can have stored inside a gun.


Gun ownership is more than hunting, or self defence, gun ownership is protecting oneself against the potential turning of one's government against their own citizens.

One only needs to open a history book to find several instances of where a government has turned against it's own citizens, and even find that in the past, even the US Government has done so as well (although not as readily admitting).


Of course, the government of the United States possess much more superior weaponry than the common man.

However, when politicians want us to have much less advanced weapons, it raises further questions as well.

While the probability of the Government turning on us is low, there is NOTHING that dictates that it could happen in the future.

When it does happen, the likelihood of us winning such a war with single action, break open, bolt action, single fire weapons is a rather small chance.

Thus one should agree that when politicians think that "one bad apple spoils the bunch", in terms of what should be done to limit the usefulness of a firearm, one should think what that politician is doing in office in the first place.
 
What you say is at the very heart of every discussion, every law, every Supreme Court case, and every pro and anti gun group. What is the 2A, how far does it go, who does it apply to etc. There is much dissension on what the 2A allows, even on boards such as this, so you will get plenty of feedback.

I will make a comment about your last point. Much of the United States power lies in the military. Where we swear an oath to the Constitution, and not the President or any ruling political body. If worse came to worse you can bet that many soldiers would not fire on American citizens to enforce an unconstitutional, and illegal law.
 
This OP is an odd one. He says stuff like this...
Gun control is merely the control of certain aspects of the firearms themselves, such as limitations on the sizes of magazines, suppressors, and other accessories, the size of the caliber, etc.
Even though the quoted statement isn't accurate at all, it sounds sort of like he's not a gun control proponent. Gun control is a great deal more than his list I quoted. This same OP, apparently, is a great believer in gun control. I don't think he realizes that, amongst many other things, gun control is also...

  1. Regulating who can keep and bear
  2. Regulating where they can keep and bear
  3. Regulating what all must be done in order to keep and bear

As far as #3, this is a bit of gun control that the OP favors...
I agree that a license should be needed to carry a firearm in public.
He stumps for a training mandate here, here, and here. He also stumbles over that old analogy of licensing drivers as though it translates logically to a Constitutional right.

But then he says something like this...
When you slowly eat away at these tiny, individual freedoms...
...not realizing the entire time that he, himself, advocates for the very 'eating away at these individual freedoms'.

Very odd one, this OP. Doesn't seem to understand what gun control really is.
 
Thank God for those with the wisdom to draft our Constitution, and our ancestors on down the line who've defended each and every part of it.
 
Ok. I officially retract my statements. I guess while needing a license to own a gun in public seems like a good idea, as proved to me by other members states where you don't need a license don't have any more issues then one's that do.

Foot, meet mouth, lol.
 
^^ Thanks for manning up.

You'll enjoy your time here, and healthy debate, which often includes enlightenment, is part of the reason..
 
Gives me a chance to recall the story about putting the frog in the pot of water and slowly turning up the heat. By the time the frog realizes the water is hot enough to kill him, it's too late. Same story with the gun grabbers: just ask for "common sense laws" and how can anyone object to that? One bite at a time.

First restrict lead shot, then lead containing primers, then lead bullets, then restrict magazine size, then scary looking rifles, then certain types of handguns, then all handguns....... you get the idea where we're heading with this.
 
I will make a comment about your last point. Much of the United States power lies in the military. Where we swear an oath to the Constitution, and not the President or any ruling political body. If worse came to worse you can bet that many soldiers would not fire on American citizens to enforce an unconstitutional, and illegal law.

History has show that it has happened more times than can be counted or recorded. Some would argue that it has already happened here in the US.
 
"Where we swear an oath to the Constitution, and not the President or any ruling political body. If worse came to worse you can bet that many soldiers would not fire on American citizens to enforce an unconstitutional, and illegal law."
Oaths are mere words, same as are written on that sheet of paper. I hope we never live to find out what their value actually is, but historical precedent the world over is not inspiring. Today's honorable servicemen/women are not the ones to be worried about, but somedays', and I don't hold much faith in the oaths of people who haven't even made them yet ;)

Peace officers (policemen) have repeatedly shown a talent for imposing the worst kind of gun control, specifically on the people and in the places where it is most harmful (crime ridden inner city impoverished ganglands of minority groups) which does also not inspire confidence.

I'd prefer not giving either group the mandate nor the option of engaging in gun control in the first place; that way no one has to resist the temptation of enforcing these ill-founded laws. Unenforced bad laws on the books are like a biscuit on a dog's nose. Just a matter of time...

"Foot, meet mouth, lol."
We've all been there. :cool:

TCB
 
America is most deeply rooted into the right to keep and bear arms with a stronger passion than any other nation on earth.

Gun control is not, nor cannot be the actual taking of firearms, which has happened numerous times in history, as such with Germany banning firearm ownership in 1919.

As with a nation such deeply rooted in gun ownership, such a despicable act on a national level would cause a mass amount of outcry, and could plunge is into civil war within hours.

Gun control is merely the control of certain aspects of the firearms themselves, such as limitations on the sizes of magazines, suppressors, and other accessories, the size of the caliber, etc.

... it goes on and on ... BLA BLA BLA

thirty-ought-six,
First of all, I don't see a question here. I did a text search of your post and did not find one "?"

[ I'm Retracting a few sentences from my reply post as I read the initial post incorrectly. ]

To respond to your paragraph four incorrect description about what is "gun control"; gun control IS about controlling who is "privileged enough" to exercise the civil right described in the 2nd Amendment. That is the biggest problem with "May Issue Carry" and why the concept rubs so many gun enthusiasts wrongly. May Issue Carry goes goes back to NYC's 1911 Sullivan Act. The whole idea was to disarm the enemies of a corrupt city hall; some of those being the righteous non-corrupt. When a former NYC mayor is a the nation's gun control leader, gun enthusiasts are suspicious of his pushing for others to enact more gun control.
 
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steelerdude99 said:
Specifiably addressing a remark made in paragraph three by saying that deeply rooted gun ownership is despicable.

You need to re-read his post a little slower.

His paragraph three is saying that "such a despicable act" as the government banning of firearms (referred to in his second paragraph) would cause a civil war here. No where does he say that gun ownership is despicable.
 
You need to re-read his post a little slower.

His paragraph three is saying that "such a despicable act" as the government banning of firearms (referred to in his second paragraph) would cause a civil war here. No where does he say that gun ownership is despicable.

45_auto, You're right... ; I did read that line wrong... I stand behind the rest of it.

chuck
 
I am rather firmly of the opinion that virtually all gun laws are an infringement on the Constitution.

That being said, there is a legitimate argument to be had for some kind of mandatory training requirement for carrying in public, either concealed or open. A friend of mine, who is a far bigger gun nut than I, strongly believes that one should get training in the Law before being allowed to carry in public. I tend to agree, except I don't believe it should be mandatory. He points out all the misinformation and myths many believe in and the myriad ways to run afoul of the Law if one has no knowledge of it. I argue that the States that allow concealed or open carry without a license is an argument that there is not a big problem there.
I think that there is a legitimate case to be made for some education of the Law requirement. It is one that ought to be conducted in the schools as part of the basic educational process. Too bad the Public Schools are such a failure.

thirty-ought-six is quite correct that the Founding Fathers considered an armed populace to be a check on a out of control Government, and that was the primary reason behind the Second Amendment.

As far as the Federal Government turning on it's own Citizens? Any one remember Ruby Ridge, Idaho, or Waco, Texas? I don't like what happened at Kent State, but at least the rioters there were violent, and rioting. And the reference to the "Bonus Army" was appropriate, and don't forget the detention of people with Japanese ancestry during WWII.

Heck, there are a lot more examples of an armed populous defending itself. Don't forget the "Deacons for Defense" of the Civil Rights era.
 
"That being said, there is a legitimate argument to be had for some kind of mandatory training requirement for carrying in public, either concealed or open. A friend of mine, who is a far bigger gun nut than I, strongly believes that one should get training in the Law before being allowed to carry in public. I tend to agree, except I don't believe it should be mandatory."

Considering there are so many predatory laws waiting to ensnare carriers, a careless or ignorant person is probably more likely to run afoul of laws than accidentally shoot themselves or another. Ignorance of the law and responsibility results in a lot of bad defense shootings that aren't justified or necessary, either. Given how low accident rates have become, law training (not just in guns, btw) is likely more important in practice.

Also consider that all the SWATing antis siccing the cops on us could use a primer on what is legal behavior. There are reasons they don't teach this stuff in school; a) there's too much to cover at this point, b) you'd raise an army of libertarians to dismantle it within a generation.

TCB
 
Right now we have the Constitution that currently protects our rights. There is a systemic assault on Christianity and acceptance of other religions and political thought processes. The reason for this is that our constitution is rooted in Judea-Christian principles. Thus they have to get rid of this thought process as it inhibits a complete change to the constitution. There is a current movement to replace what we currently have with something more new and "modern" that reflects the world we live in now. That is when things will get bad, just wait, and some of won't have to live that long.
 
"That being said, there is a legitimate argument to be had for some kind of mandatory training requirement for carrying in public, either concealed or open. A friend of mine, who is a far bigger gun nut than I, strongly believes that one should get training in the Law before being allowed to carry in public. I tend to agree, except I don't believe it should be mandatory."

Considering there are so many predatory laws waiting to ensnare carriers, a careless or ignorant person is probably more likely to run afoul of laws than accidentally shoot themselves or another.
Given how low accident rates have become, law training (not just in guns, btw) is likely more important in practice.

There are reasons they don't teach this stuff in school; a) there's too much to cover at this point, b) you'd raise an army of libertarians to dismantle it within a generation.

TCB

I agree, and your last point about raising an army Libertarians is the best reason to start teaching people about laws in school! Too bad the Liberals control the schools.
 
I hope the rest of the country is watching what is happening in California right now.

Gun grabbers always tout the line that "no one is coming for your guns". And to a great extent, they are right. The guns I have right now, it is not likely that the government will ever tell me I need to turn them in, assuming I stay on the right side of the law. I may end up needing to register them, I may end up needing to submit to some absurd "secure" scheme, but they won't just say turn them all in.


But, here's the kicker. They don't care. They are patient. All of my handguns that I own right now are fine. I can have them, I can use them, I can sell them. But I can't replace them with new guns. They are no longer on our "roster of handguns certified for sale" and so no copies of these guns can no longer be sold in this state. My kids can not buy guns like mine. Their kids will not be able to buy them. A few guns may trickle into the state as people who own these guns move here, but not many, not enough to keep gun owners happy.


We are running out of handguns on the roster. Nothing new can be added, because of the impossible standards. It's being fought right now, but if we lose this fight, we lose everything but revolvers. Not today, but slowly, eventually, there will only be a few semi auto handguns left in the state. And nobody had to take anyone's guns away to do it.


Nationally, it's happened with machine guns. They didn't have to come and take any one's machine guns away. They just banned new ones, and now the ones left are way too expensive for most people to own, and slowly, little bit by little bit, the ones that are left wear out, rust away, get lost or damaged in accidents and fires, and eventually, the only ones left will be in museums.


What's next? They don't have to come for your guns. They aren't coming for your guns. They are coming for your grandchildren's guns.
 
What's next? They don't have to come for your guns. They aren't coming for your guns. They are coming for your grandchildren's guns.

Exactly.

With a few exceptions, it's not a frontal assault; it is piecemeal attrition. They are patient, and the are cunning. For the better part of a century, they successfully eroded 2A at the federal level, but the information age and contemporary situation encumbered that approach, so they have shifted to a state by state tactic.

If we do not remain vigilant, dedicated and unwaivering, we will continue to lose ground.
 
Ok. I officially retract my statements. I guess while needing a license to own a gun in public seems like a good idea, as proved to me by other members states where you don't need a license don't have any more issues then one's that do.

Foot, meet mouth, lol.
At least you took the high road on this one and manned up. For the life of me I could not believe I would ever see someone who claims to believe in freedom try to take the same freedom from others because you think "what would it hurt".
 
Personally, I like the fact that Thirty-Ought-Six was swayed by facts. Not rhetoric or hyperbole, but the fact that states with no training requirement have no more issues than those with onerous standards.

This is just one example of the gun control debate today. Most people accept sound bites and opinion as a substitute for fact. Words are co-opted and meanings changed to force the debate in a specific direction. So even when you present facts, the argument is already skewed because words have been redefined.

Anyway, good on ya' for manning up and making an informed decision.
 
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